Confirmed with Link: Penguins Protected List

[Gurglesons]

Did the pandemic make the cap go down?

I get your argument somewhat that the cap increasing acts as a "aw shucks we clearly overpaid him but he'll take a smaller percentage moving forward." That still doesn't make him worth that contract given what I saw with my eyes on the ice.

As recently as early this year you had fans acting like he was better than Rust. No.

If he stays I hope he bounces back. Like I've said, without Malkin he has a better chance.

Yes, the pandemic made the cap go down? And Rutherford was likely operating under the assumption that expansion was about to make the cap go over 90 mil.

I think most people after last season were very high on Zucker given the fact he was amongst our best forwards in the playoffs and railed off 12 points in 15 games.

He had a terrible year, but acting like he wasn't misused by the staff, he was unable to see his family and is well known as being a huge family guy, and likely had a significant injury kind of seems a little disingenuous.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

In hindsight obviously. Moreso because he isn't utilized correctly.

But I would do the trade again if I was promised Zucker would get more Crosby time other than a cursory glance.

The utter 180 Sullivan has executed is something I didn't foresee after the B2B. He's an unimaginative clod, anymore. And probably a worse drag on this roster at this point than most of the players discussed.

 

[dogthateats]

This feels like an episode of Carmen San Diego

 

[Empoleon8771]

The Zucker trade stunk because:

1. Zucker seemingly regressed from where he was at before the trade
2. The flat cap completely destroyed the cap structure for the short term future
3. The Penguins have too many similar wingers to Zucker, and it all relies on Crosby and Malkin generating everything offensively to work

He can still work out here, by the way. Paul Martin went from ghastly in his first 2 years to being arguably better than Letang in his third year. But the trade has definitely stunk so far, both because of Zucker and also because of reasons completely unrelated to Zucker.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The Zucker trade would still be just fine if certain people would stop being stubborn dolts.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Yes, the pandemic made the cap go down? And Rutherford was likely operating under the assumption that expansion was about to make the cap go over 90 mil.

I think most people after last season were very high on Zucker given the fact he was amongst our best forwards in the playoffs and railed off 12 points in 15 games.

Last year ZMR sucked. All of them.

The potency of the Zucker-Crosby-Simon/Sheary line was wildly overstated. That line just traded chances constantly.

Zucker has some good qualities. He can finish. He can skate. He has great hands. Those aren't insignificant. He severely lacks offensive IQ. He's a $3M player who got paid more than he was worth and we paid too much to take on his deal.

I think he could do something like 12 Goals, 25 points in the first ~40 games with Carter as his center and some PP2 time. That would be good. Once Geno gets back, God help us.

 

[Gurglesons]

Last year ZMR sucked. All of them.

The potency of the Zucker-Crosby-Simon/Sheary line was wildly overstated. That line just traded chances constantly.

Zucker has some good qualities. He can finish. He can skate. He has great hands. Those aren't insignificant. He severely lacks offensive IQ. He's a $3M player who got paid more than he was worth and we paid too much to take on his deal.

I think he could do something like 12 Goals, 25 points in the first ~40 games with Carter as his center and some PP2 time. That would be good. Once Geno gets back, God help us.

K. Saying things like this doesn't make it fact though. When Zucker signed his contract plenty of comparable RFAs around his age made 5 - 5 mil.

Zucker can't help where the coach puts him and he's produced when it matters in the playoffs both years.

 

[ChaosAgent]

K. Saying things like this doesn't make it fact though. When Zucker signed his contract plenty of comparable RFAs around his age made 5 - 5 mil.

Oh nooioooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I was about to respond and then you shadow-edited it.

Edit: Shadow-edited it twice!

 

[DatGuy]

K. Saying things like this doesn't make it fact though. When Zucker signed his contract plenty of comparable RFAs around his age made 5 - 5 mil.

Zucker can't help where the coach puts him and he's produced when it matters in the playoffs both years.

What he is actually worth (dictated by the market) and what some random guy on the internet says he is worth, are two very different things.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Shadow edit: if Zucker is worth $5.5M...what are McCann and Rust worth?

$5.5M? $7.5M?

 

[ChaosAgent]

What he is actually worth (dictated by the market) and what some random guy on the internet says he is worth, are two very different things.

Just curious: if he hit the market as UFA, what kinda deal you think he's getting?

Cause Seattle just said "$11M for 2 years...I'll pass. I'd rather have Brandon Tanev at $14M for 4 years."

 

[Gurglesons]

Shadow edit: if Zucker is worth $5.5M...what are McCann and Rust worth?

$5.5M? $7.5M?

McCann, I think probably gets 4-5 million. Rust is interesting, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get 6-7 depending on this year.

Zucker was coming off a 22 goal and 48 points season and 30 goal 60 point season when he signed that contract. Makes things a little difficult to judge.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Zucker was coming off a 22 goal and 48 points season and 30 goal 60 point season when he signed that contract. Makes things a little difficult to judge.

Players do tend to get compensated quite well after career seasons.

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh nooioooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo I was about to respond and then you shadow-edited it.

Edit: Shadow-edited it twice!

I'm very confused by why you think everything is malicious. Like, I'm editing posts so I don't post 8 of them. "shadow-edited" lol.

 

[Pengwins]

why are they taking some Flyer scrub instead of JVR or Vorachump?

 

[ChaosAgent]

I'm very confused by why you think everything is malicious. Like, I'm editing posts so I don't post 8 of them. "shadow-edited" lol.

Because it reflects a thought process that goes:

1) Initial response/zinger. Hit post.
2) Oh wait just came up with another zinger. Hit post again.
3) Oh wait there's something else in my argument. Hit post a third time!

And listen, you know I do this too. You've called it out. The frequency of it is too damn high on your end. Sorry.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I don't think Zucker's salary is the problem. I think JR's pro scouts and JR himself were the problem. Shouldn't have even been in on him to begin with.

I'm intrigued that he could maybe work with Crosby but that's always a gamble to make changes to that line. If Horns had little to no chance what chance did Zucker have? Otherwise he seems mediocre to bad anywhere else in the lineup. You don't have to take my word for it... go look at the numbers.

His playoff performance does give me a bit of pause.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don't think Zucker's salary is the problem. I think JR's pro scouts and JR himself were the problem. Shouldn't have even been in on him to begin with.

I'm intrigued that he could maybe work with Crosby but that's always a gamble to make changes to that line. If Horns had little to no chance what chance did Zucker have? Otherwise he seems mediocre to bad anywhere else in the lineup. You don't have to take my word for it... go look at the numbers.

His playoff performance does give me a bit of pause.

I think Zucker will do a lot for us next year because we have no other options.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think Zucker will do a lot for us next year because we have no other options.

I... admire your optimism. Or at least ability to stick your neck out haha

 

[ChaosAgent]

@Gurglesons I don't want to fight about Zucker any more.

We'll just say I'm too ignorant of his time in Minnesota, what kind of trajectory he was on, and too dismissive of his potential with Crosby. Maybe I am!

It isn't worth fighting about anymore. I hope he either nets us a decent return or shows some of his old Minny game relieved from the pressure of flanking Malkin.

 

[Gurglesons]

I... admire your optimism. Or at least ability to stick your neck out haha

He’s going to be playing with Carter and effectively our fourth most experienced winger

 

[Pens x]

I assume sleepy will sign a goalie and convince himself that Lafferty can replace Tanev. Laff will be the ghetto version of Tanev and fans will love him again. He TriEs So HaRd.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Zucker was definitely a "JR's gotta get his guy" guy.

All the way back to the attempted Kessel trade.

So I guess I just think the whole thing was a bad idea to begin with. Tunnel vision and stubborn pride doesn't usually lead to smart decisions. Obviously I hope he kills it next year because we are probably stuck with the guy but I've largely written off the possibility.

What will be truly frustrating is him likely bouncing around the lineup largely ineffectively all season just like last year only to be stapled to Malkin as soon as he's healthy. Like clockwork.

He’s going to be playing with Carter and effectively our fourth most experienced winger

Well... if he falls on his face yet again he should be just about out of excuses, then.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Zucker was definitely a "JR's gotta get his guy" guy.

All the way back to the attempted Kessel trade.

So I guess I just think the whole thing was a bad idea to begin with. Tunnel vision and stubborn pride doesn't usually lead to smart decisions. Obviously I hope he kills it next year because we are probably stuck with the guy but I've largely written off the possibility.

What will be truly frustrating is him likely bouncing around the lineup largely ineffectively all season just like last year only to be stapled to Malkin as soon as he's healthy. Like clockwork.

In fairness to JR, Guentzel's injury added a bit of urgency. He was the best available like-for-like fit.

It will never not irritate me that we paid the same price as Tampa paid for Coleman, a better player counting $3.7M less against the Cap. But it's in the past.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

In fairness to JR, Guentzel's injury added a bit of urgency. He was the best available like-for-like fit.

It will never not irritate me that we paid the same price as Tampa paid for Coleman, a better player counting $3.7M less against the Cap. But it's in the past.

Excellent point on the context of the Zucker trade

-Jake was injured
-Not many wingers available we could afford