Value of: Pavel Buchnevich

[Linkens Mastery]

You care enough to make dozens of posts trying to sell the same guy to the same people over and over.


Sure, but you can't expect that sort of late blossoming out of every player, and it's certainly not the type of prospect that should be the centerpiece of a package for a player of Buch's caliber.

Most players don't start hitting their NHL stride until 23/24.

 

[Frenzy31]

Most players don't start hitting their NHL stride until 23/24.

Most show signs by 22 - flashes. Hell, Neighbors is younger and out producing him. At 21 you are seeing flashes of a solid 2nd line guy.

While guys start to hit production peek at 23/24 - you start seeing flashes when they are younger.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Toronto… Knies and a first for Buch?

How about Knies Chadwick and a 1st?

 

[Johnsie19]

Thomas + Krug for Hughes + Petersson (C) + Miller + 2024 1st + 2025 1st + 2025 4th.

Separate deal because I'm feeling generous: Perunovich for Hronek + Hunter B.

Dude Perunovich has way more value than that. He and Krug are genuine studs. Blues are kinda offensive dman rich though, they could afford to move them.

 

[Johnsie19]

You care enough to make dozens of posts trying to sell the same guy to the same people over and over.

Exactly. I like talking about hockey. And you care enough to reply dozens of times and try to suggest it's odd that I am continuing to make my argument, when you are continuing to offer an opinion that isn't backed up by anything of substance. You could make the case that I am at a disadvantage as you don't seem to be bound by anything but the opinion that I'm wrong. I have to actually bring real world data and reason.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

Brz for Ditka straight up…

 

[Memento]

Exactly. I like talking about hockey. And you care enough to reply dozens of times and try to suggest it's odd that I am continuing to make my argument, when you are continuing to offer an opinion that isn't backed up by anything of substance. You could make the case that I am at a disadvantage as you don't seem to be bound by anything but the opinion that I'm wrong. I have to actually bring real world data and reason.

We know our team more than you. Stop trying to sell Brzustewicz to us; it's not working, and it's getting tiresome to read. If we're moving Buchnevich - our best trade-chip by far - for Brzustewicz and a late first, Armstrong should be flat-out fired on the spot and kicked out of the facility effective immediately.

 

[Johnsie19]

We know our team more than you. Stop trying to sell Brzustewicz to us; it's not working, and it's getting tiresome to read. If we're moving Buchnevich - our best trade-chip by far - for Brzustewicz and a late first, Armstrong should be flat-out fired on the spot and kicked out of the facility effective immediately.

I it's a 1st and two good prospects and could be more. Ive been.arguing far less about the exact value than just that Brzu is a very good prospect that suit the needs of your organization. I've made my case. It's pretty strong. The rebuttal hasn't been great. Other than I'm selling too much and you know more. Which aren't really arguments.

 

[BleedBlue14]

I think you are looking at it all wrong. You need as many top prospects as you can find. If you had 3-4 guys under 23 that were potential PP guys then sure you might look to get something else. But you don't. So it should be the same credo as 90% of all draft picks...take the best player available. Don't trade for your current need only. The team will be drastically different by the time any prospect makes it.

As for OHL points there are 3 guys in the last 25 yrs who've ever put up points at the level Brzustewicz is currently. Ryan Ellis, Tony DeAngelo, Brandt Clarke, all top 20 picks. It seems to have translated well. What were they elite at? Any old guy who puts up a ppg sure that doesn't translate necessarily at the highest rate. This is different.

Puck skills, hockey sense, skating, deception, transition.

The guys you listed did so in their draft years. Not their D+1s.

Minus Clarke, Clarke had also been labeled as being a pretty elite skater who had a bit of a physical element to his game. He was also projected as a pretty solid two way player once he filled out.

 

[Johnsie19]

The guys you listed did so in their draft years. Not their D+1s.

Minus Clarke, Clarke had also been labeled as being a pretty elite skater who had a bit of a physical element to his game. He was also projected as a pretty solid two way player once he filled out.

It's funny looking closer into Brzustewicz through scouting reports it looks like while his straight line speed isn't elite, he possesses great mechanics, and elite edge work. Also elite in transition. And considered a two way dman with some physicality. He doesn't really take chances offensively apparently according to reports from last season. So the whole idea that he is simply this undersized soft offensive guy who can't skate isn't correct.

 

[stl76]

It's funny looking closer into Brzustewicz through scouting reports it looks like while his straight line speed isn't elite, he possesses great mechanics, and elite edge work. Also elite in transition. And considered a two way dman with some physicality. He doesn't really take chances offensively apparently according to reports from last season. So the whole idea that he is simply this undersized soft offensive guy who can't skate isn't correct.

How many of his OHL games have you watched this year?

 

[Majorityof1]

I it's a 1st and two good prospects and could be more. Ive been.arguing far less about the exact value than just that Brzu is a very good prospect that suit the needs of your organization. I've made my case. It's pretty strong. The rebuttal hasn't been great. Other than I'm selling too much and you know more. Which aren't really arguments.

"I have made beautiful arguments, the best arguments. Arguments like nobody has ever seen. Arguments so beautiful...women weep, I mean, these arguments...I give myself an A+. The Rebuttals, so bad. So bad these these rebuttals. They call themselves fans. Fake fans. Fake fans with fake arguments. So bad. Nothing like my beautiful arguments."

Congratulations of winning the Johnsie19 award for best Johnsie19 argument as determined by Johnsie19. Your mom must be so proud.

 

[ToniJ1960]

Well what was the asking price for each piece?

My understanding was a 1st and a few prospects for the main pieces, being Buch and Parayko (who I falsely thought had fallen out of favor) was acceptable. I openly will say I don't know how to value Hayes.

The players are mostly to balance cap, but both Myers and Blueger/Cole expire at the end of this season, while Kuzmenko has one more year. Cap is the same this year, but only this year.

Breaking it down:
Brzustewicz, Raty, Myers and a 1st for the retained Buch (the retention and cap is more for Buch, but there is a better prospect added versus the Horvat trade).
Pettersson, Kuzmenko and a 1st for Parayko (or Faulk...but a top six scorer, a prospect and a 1st for a top four D isn't insultingly bad).
Klimovich and one of Cole, Blueger or Suter for Hayes (again, I don't know how to value Hayes, but 10-10-20 isn't a huge downgrade to, say, 5-14-19 from Blueger, and that comes with a prospect).

Is the combination of the three trades/players whats at issue? A negative response is fine, but your reaction seems to imply that there is one solid piece that St Louis would get for these three, or that I am way off value breaking the trades down. Parayko (or Faulk, as pointed out to me being slightly more available) and Hayes not being available is fine, but you're acting like I offered ten 7th round picks, some 25 year old "prospects" that will never make the NHL and cap dumps.

get outa here will ya

 

[ToniJ1960]

He's 6' tall. Quinn Hughes is 5'10", Makar and Adam Fox are 5'11". Size is definitely not an issue. Who are these guys you are thinking of when you say that? They were producing at 1.5+ points per game in their D+1 ?

Well ya Parayko somehow fell off a cliff as well which totally sucks. It's gonna be a rough few yrs for the Blues looking at those contracts. As a Canuck fan I feel your pain. Somehow we are good this yr but it was bleak for a while.

I'd be looking to Trade Faulk, Krug, Parayko, Leddy to anyone at 50% retained even. Lean into be being bad for a few yrs. Even consider some buyouts.

youre lost in space

 

[BleedBlue14]

It's funny looking closer into Brzustewicz through scouting reports it looks like while his straight line speed isn't elite, he possesses great mechanics, and elite edge work. Also elite in transition. And considered a two way dman with some physicality. He doesn't really take chances offensively apparently according to reports from last season. So the whole idea that he is simply this undersized soft offensive guy who can't skate isn't correct.

I’ve seen inconsistent from game to game. A lot of indecision on how to play guys defensively/engage.

 

[ToniJ1960]

Maybe you need to reread what I said. Becauae i did not say we currently have a top 5 PP. What I was saying was, say that your magical bean you're constantly trying to shove down our damn throat magically makes us a top 5 PP, we still will be a f***ing terrible team because no one knows how to f***ing play defense.

the clown in here clowning

Tom Willander but I don't think he's available. Teams don't generally trade that type of asset. Brzustewicz is trending towards possible top 4. After that we don't have any top 4 prospects unless they really hit.


You hear that mods Blueston has spoken. He says shut it down. Willander or bust.

Also says no wanted Ellis. Literally a top 20 dman in the league for a decade plus. DeAngelo traded for multiple high picks. Produced huge numbers in the league. No one wants them.

listen to him big dummy

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

It's funny looking closer into Brzustewicz through scouting reports it looks like while his straight line speed isn't elite, he possesses great mechanics, and elite edge work. Also elite in transition. And considered a two way dman with some physicality. He doesn't really take chances offensively apparently according to reports from last season. So the whole idea that he is simply this undersized soft offensive guy who can't skate isn't correct.

Brz for Ditka and Walter Payton.

 

[rea]

Mb just me, but as a Canucks fan, I'd 100% ship a 1st, lekk, brz, and a cap dump like mik, for buch and like a 3rd or 4th . If the team is to go all in, this is the type of player you'd want for a run, and he's controlled for another yr after this.

 

[Johnsie19]

I’ve seen inconsistent from game to game. A lot of indecision on how to play guys defensively/engage.

You watch all his OHL games?

youre lost in space

Not likely

 

[BleedBlue14]

You watch all his OHL games?


Not likely

No, but I don’t feel myself as qualified to make those calls on players either. I generally find a few scouting pages/companies and see a pre draft review and then the most recent review.

Do you watch all his OHL games?

 

[Johnsie19]

No, but I don’t feel myself as qualified to make those calls on players either. I generally find a few scouting pages/companies and see a pre draft review and then the most recent review.

Do you watch all his OHL games?

You said from game to game. I thought you meant you watched the OHL and his specific team. Which scouting reports are you looking at?

 

[Robtom18]

Mb just me, but as a Canucks fan, I'd 100% ship a 1st, lekk, brz, and a cap dump like mik, for buch and like a 3rd or 4th . If the team is to go all in, this is the type of player you'd want for a run, and he's controlled for another yr after this.

How about elias petterson willander and a first 2025. With dump and retention.
For
Buch and 2nd 2024.

 

[stl76]

You said from game to game. I thought you meant you watched the OHL and his specific team. Which scouting reports are you looking at?

You’ve ducked this question twice now. Do you watch Hunter B’s OHL games?

Because I’m seriously starting to doubt it and it would be f***ing hilarious (and peak hf boards) for this dumbass trade thread to be dragged out for weeks by some guy who doesn’t even watch a prospect they are discussing so much lol

 

[Johnsie19]

You’ve ducked this question twice now. Do you watch Hunter B’s OHL games?

Because I’m seriously starting to doubt it and it would be f***ing hilarious (and peak hf boards) for this dumbass trade thread to be dragged out for weeks by some guy who doesn’t even watch a prospect they are discussing so much lol

Obviously not dude. No one on this board has ever watched a CHL game on TV, save maybe the mem cup final. Is that a joke?

You were saying about the game by game scouting reports though. Where do I see those?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Obviously not dude. No one on this board has ever watched a CHL game on TV, save maybe the mem cup final. Is that a joke?

You were saying about the game by game scouting reports though. Where do I see those?

and there it is. sorry bud, but some of us actually do watch chl games. which is why we all keep telling you that your valuation of brz is so off.