Value of: Pavel Buchnevich

[Mike Liut]

JFC this is still going on?

Hunter B is not wanted. St. Louis asks for Willander + 1st for Buchnevich or Vancouver can go pound sand.

The Blues would need to add something like Dean or Bolduc imo.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

The Blues would need to add something like Dean or Bolduc imo.

Nah, considering what Meier got last year, just Willander and a 1st for a better and cheaper player in Buch is more than fair.

 

[Johnsie19]

I don't want Petterson, at least not for Buch. I said why some Blues fans prefer him. Stylistically, he is more of a need.

Our PP is bad because our scheme was awful and we had no trigger man, We had our RH shooter on the right wall and our left handed shooter on the left wall for 30+ games. We literally had nobody set in a position for a quick shot. We had no net front presence either and we were deathly afraid to shoot it, passing it around and around. When Berube was fired, we hired Brad Richards as a remote consultant on our PP. It has been much better since as we are putting guys in position to shoot. We are 10 for 42 since then, and 6 for 17 on the last 5. So the 23.8% since Berube was fired would put us at 10th in the league. We were 9% before Berube, and 23.8% after.

Maybe it wasn't the need for a better PP QB and was a scheme thing like was said by the guy who has watched every single minute of Blues hockey for the past several years (me), and not the guy who looked at stats on NHL.com for 30 seconds (you).

You missed the point of my counter analogy. You don't know what we need. You are a used car salesman trying to sell a 2-seater sports car to a dad with 2 toddlers and a baby. You didn't bother asking what he was wanted or what his needs were. You took a cursory look and decided for yourself. You are too arrogant to listen when he tells you what he needs.

Tell me how you don't need a high end offensive defenseman prospect? In all this drivel no one has ever said anything about that. Krug is below average. Even if he wasn't by the time someone like Brzu is ready to play he'll surely be washed. At least according the NHL.com.

I think the analogy died a while back haha it's entering butcher territory now. But again if you look at the Canucks roster and say to me you need a PPQB I would just point to Quinn Hughes and Hronek. I've yet to hear anyone point to anything other the Krug, and that this type of dman is so easy to find in the draft which it clearly isn't.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Tell me how you don't need a high end offensive defenseman prospect? In all this drivel no one has ever said anything about that. Krug is below average. Even if he wasn't by the time someone like Brzu is ready to play he'll surely be washed. At least according the NHL.com.

I think the analogy died a while back haha it's entering butcher territory now. But again if you look at the Canucks roster and say to me you need a PPQB I would just point to Quinn Hughes and Hronek. I've yet to hear anyone point to anything other the Krug, and that this type of dman is so easy to find in the draft which it clearly isn't.

Because we need to rebuild the defensive side of our defense first. Like we have been saying repeatedly over and over and over and over again. And just to repeat it once again. We need to rebuild the defensive side of our defense first. We have ONE defensive prospect in our system that projects to be a defense first defenseman and EVERYONE of our top 5 defensemen are 30 or older. Until we rebuild the main aspect of a defensive core (which is the defensive side of the puck) who in the actual hell cares about our PP production. Cool, we're top 5 PP, aaaannnnddddd we lose because our defense is garbage because they don't know how to defend.

 

[Johnsie19]

Because we need to rebuild the defensive side of our defense first. Like we have been saying repeatedly over and over and over and over again. And just to repeat it once again. We need to rebuild the defensive side of our defense first. We have ONE defensive prospect in our system that projects to be a defense first defenseman and EVERYONE of our top 5 defensemen are 30 or older. Until we rebuild the main aspect of a defensive core (which is the defensive side of the puck) who in the actual hell cares about our PP production. Cool, we're top 5 PP, aaaannnnddddd we lose because our defense is garbage because they don't know how to defend.

Ya that makes no sense. You need both. You at least have Parayko already for defensive Dmen.

And you have the 3rd worst PP in the league not top 5. Also 28th in goals for and 15th in goals against (NHL.com look at me go). 27th in point % by defensemen! So ya you were saying...

Defending is largely about systems and coaching.

 

[Xerloris]

Ya that makes no sense. You need both. You at least have Parayko already for defensive Dmen.

And you have the 3rd worst PP in the league not top 5. Also 28th in goals for and 15th in goals against (NHL.com look at me go). 27th in point % by defensemen! So ya you were saying...

Defending is largely about systems and coaching.

Our PP is bad because the stupid mother f***ers never shoot. They will pass it around the perimeter the entire time and occasionally try to force a pass through a Dman or 2. We need a LD able to play with Parayko and log 25 minutes a night. We need another Jbo for a monster shut down pair. We mostly all love Leddy but he would be best suited to 2nd pairing and not logging massive minutes with Parayko nightly but he's holding his own as a stop gap for now.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

Ya that makes no sense. You need both. You at least have Parayko already for defensive Dmen.

And you have the 3rd worst PP in the league not top 5. Also 28th in goals for and 15th in goals against (NHL.com look at me go). 27th in point % by defensemen! So ya you were saying...

Defending is largely about systems and coaching.

You are a brick wall, I'm not wasting my time on you any further. Blues say no, if you can't get that through your skull, well then idk what to freaking tell you. You can go buy elsewhere. Stop trying to sell a chicken sandwich to someone asking for a hamburger.

 

[McSuper]

Oilers 1st, Broberg, Holloway, Campbell for Buchnevich

A team needs Campbell like they need a hole in the head. What you have there may get a rebuilding team to taking on Campbell but they aren't including a good player as well.

Oilers 1st, Broberg, Holloway, Campbell for future consideration is more like it but other teams probably prefer draft picks to choose their own players.

 

[Anthony5967]

To NYR for Kakko+Robertson+1st 2024, but Drury isn't a Buch guy. Probably knows the core is too soft to begin with.

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Tell me how you don't need a high end offensive defenseman prospect? In all this drivel no one has ever said anything about that. Krug is below average. Even if he wasn't by the time someone like Brzu is ready to play he'll surely be washed. At least according the NHL.com.

I think the analogy died a while back haha it's entering butcher territory now. But again if you look at the Canucks roster and say to me you need a PPQB I would just point to Quinn Hughes and Hronek. I've yet to hear anyone point to anything other the Krug, and that this type of dman is so easy to find in the draft which it clearly isn't.

I'm not super familiar with the Blues, but is Perunovich no longer their long term PPQB? His stats in college and AHL are outstanding, I always assumed he is the Blues' future PPQB?

 

[Frenzy31]

I'm not super familiar with the Blues, but is Perunovich no longer their long term PPQB? His stats in college and AHL are outstanding, I always assumed he is the Blues' future PPQB?

His issue is power.

He is small and can be effective offensively, but he gets bullied on the cycle, blocked out. He needs to be very sheltered and the guy with him tends to get hemmed in the zone. His positioning is sound, but he just loses the physical battles due to size and power.

 

[Johnsie19]

You are a brick wall, I'm not wasting my time on you any further. Blues say no, if you can't get that through your skull, well then idk what to freaking tell you. You can go buy elsewhere. Stop trying to sell a chicken sandwich to someone asking for a hamburger.

All good bro. Was a fun convo. Hope you're not too upset.

I'm not super familiar with the Blues, but is Perunovich no longer their long term PPQB? His stats in college and AHL are outstanding, I always assumed he is the Blues' future PPQB?

he's gonna be 26 yrs old this season and he's played 47 NHL games. He's gonna have to start doing something this season you'd have to think.

 

[Celtic Note]

Ya that makes no sense. You need both. You at least have Parayko already for defensive Dmen.

And you have the 3rd worst PP in the league not top 5. Also 28th in goals for and 15th in goals against (NHL.com look at me go). 27th in point % by defensemen! So ya you were saying...

Defending is largely about systems and coaching.

You are wrong. It’s over. Let it go. You don’t know what the Blues need …clearly.

 

[PerryTurnbullfan]

You are wrong. It’s over. Let it go. You don’t know what the Blues need …clearly.

We need another defenseman that will be in Europe in a couple years….

 

[Johnsie19]

You are wrong. It’s over. Let it go. You don’t know what the Blues need …clearly.

We need another defenseman that will be in Europe in a couple years….

You don't need any more prospects with upside, is what I'm hearing. Nooooooo offensive defenseman allowed. According to one guy you have the 5th best PP in the league already, I think he read the table upside down though.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

You don't need any more prospects with upside, is what I'm hearing. Nooooooo offensive defenseman allowed. According to one guy you have the 5th best PP in the league already, I think he read the table upside down though.

Maybe you need to reread what I said. Becauae i did not say we currently have a top 5 PP. What I was saying was, say that your magical bean you're constantly trying to shove down our damn throat magically makes us a top 5 PP, we still will be a f***ing terrible team because no one knows how to f***ing play defense.

 

[dellzor]

I have a feeling Buchnevich is 1 of the 5 forwards that Friedman mentioned that the Canucks were interested in.

 

[Johnsie19]

Maybe you need to reread what I said. Becauae i did not say we currently have a top 5 PP. What I was saying was, say that your magical bean you're constantly trying to shove down our damn throat magically makes us a top 5 PP, we still will be a f***ing terrible team because no one knows how to f***ing play defense.

Hahah not what you said but thats neither here nor there. You are league average defensively and bottom 5 offensively. And bottom of point % by defensemen. Bottom 3 PP. You need help. Not to mention and no one ever seems to get this. This is a prospect haha. He's not gonna be your PPQB if ever for another 2-5 yrs.

 

[HighNote]

Hahah not what you said but thats neither here nor there. You are league average defensively and bottom 5 offensively. And bottom of point % by defensemen. Bottom 3 PP. You need help. Not to mention and no one ever seems to get this. This is a prospect haha. He's not gonna be your PPQB if ever for another 2-5 yrs.

These stats are cool and all, but they are current stats. The Blues are more interested in how their stats will look down the road. Our overall defense projects to get worse and worse with each passing year as our defenseman get older and older. We also only have one solid defensive prospect that projects to be sound defensively in our top 4. Our offensive prospects look very promising, so scoring does not appear to be a future weakness unless several of our top prospects bust.

If we are to trade a valuable asset like Buchnevich for futures, it better be to improve our biggest future weakness.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Hahah not what you said but thats neither here nor there. You are league average defensively and bottom 5 offensively. And bottom of point % by defensemen. Bottom 3 PP. You need help. Not to mention and no one ever seems to get this. This is a prospect haha. He's not gonna be your PPQB if ever for another 2-5 yrs.

We have 2 PPQBs who have been considered high end much further along in their development than Bruscewitz has entered.

Both of them aren’t producing. Mainly due to our forwards lack of ability to shoot the puck consistently.

Those forwards will largely be here in the supposed 2-5 years.

Aside from Snuggerud possibly coming up. What exactly is the rational that Bruscewitz will magically fix that?

Also by that standard, I advise you look at points per season for a defenseman in the OHL. It rarely translates.

Most high end PPQBs in today’s game have a truly elite talent. Along with very good offensive weapons on forward. What is Bruscewitzs elite talent? Will it translate when the game speeds up?

 

[Johnsie19]

We have 2 PPQBs who have been considered high end much further along in their development than Bruscewitz has entered.

Both of them aren’t producing. Mainly due to our forwards lack of ability to shoot the puck consistently.

Those forwards will largely be here in the supposed 2-5 years.

Aside from Snuggerud possibly coming up. What exactly is the rational that Bruscewitz will magically fix that?

Also by that standard, I advise you look at points per season for a defenseman in the OHL. It rarely translates.

Most high end PPQBs in today’s game have a truly elite talent. Along with very good offensive weapons on forward. What is Bruscewitzs elite talent? Will it translate when the game speeds up?

I think you are looking at it all wrong. You need as many top prospects as you can find. If you had 3-4 guys under 23 that were potential PP guys then sure you might look to get something else. But you don't. So it should be the same credo as 90% of all draft picks...take the best player available. Don't trade for your current need only. The team will be drastically different by the time any prospect makes it.

As for OHL points there are 3 guys in the last 25 yrs who've ever put up points at the level Brzustewicz is currently. Ryan Ellis, Tony DeAngelo, Brandt Clarke, all top 20 picks. It seems to have translated well. What were they elite at? Any old guy who puts up a ppg sure that doesn't translate necessarily at the highest rate. This is different.

Puck skills, hockey sense, skating, deception, transition.

 

[Johnsie19]

These stats are cool and all, but they are current stats. The Blues are more interested in how their stats will look down the road. Our overall defense projects to get worse and worse with each passing year as our defenseman get older and older. We also only have one solid defensive prospect that projects to be sound defensively in our top 4. Our offensive prospects look very promising, so scoring does not appear to be a future weakness unless several of our top prospects bust.

If we are to trade a valuable asset like Buchnevich for futures, it better be to improve our biggest future weakness.

You know most NHL teams do with most of their draft picks? and I mean basically all of them...take the best player available.

Your forwards are nothing if the d can't move the puck, carry the puck, transition the puck, activate on the cycle.

You have a bunch of terrible defenseman. None of them are good offensively save maybe Krug but he is ageing and unreliable. Not to mention you need 2-3 capable offensive guys on a successful team. And at least one has to be elite.

If the hypothetical Canucks trade happened. And the Canucks said take one of D-petey, Brzustewicz, Woo you wouldn't take D-Petey or Woo because they seem to fit your prospective current needs. You take the guy with the best chance of being a top 4 nhl dman. Which is Brzustewicz. Unless you maybe already has 2-3 guys under 23 who were offensive dmen.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

You know most NHL teams do with most of their draft picks? and I mean basically all of them...take the best player available.

Your forwards are nothing if the d can't move the puck, carry the puck, transition the puck, activate on the cycle.

You have a bunch of terrible defenseman. None of them are good offensively save maybe Krug but he is ageing and unreliable. Not to mention you need 2-3 capable offensive guys on a successful team. And at least one has to be elite.

If the hypothetical Canucks trade happened. And the Canucks said take one of D-petey, Brzustewicz, Woo you wouldn't take D-Petey or Woo because they seem to fit your prospective current needs. You take the guy with the best chance of being a top 4 nhl dman. Which is Brzustewicz. Unless you maybe already has 2-3 guys under 23 who were offensive dmen.

Nobody wants these guys. If we did, we wouldn't have passed on him so many times 6 months ago. Comparing lower tier prospects to each other to say which one is best doesn't change thoat. You want Buchy, cost is Willander. Maybe we would take Lekkerimaki if you added enough to him. But that is it. Every Blues fan on here has told you this.

Moderators, please close this pointless thread.

 

[HighNote]

You know most NHL teams do with most of their draft picks? and I mean basically all of them...take the best player available.

Your forwards are nothing if the d can't move the puck, carry the puck, transition the puck, activate on the cycle.

You have a bunch of terrible defenseman. None of them are good offensively save maybe Krug but he is ageing and unreliable. Not to mention you need 2-3 capable offensive guys on a successful team. And at least one has to be elite.

If the hypothetical Canucks trade happened. And the Canucks said take one of D-petey, Brzustewicz, Woo you wouldn't take D-Petey or Woo because they seem to fit your prospective current needs. You take the guy with the best chance of being a top 4 nhl dman. Which is Brzustewicz. Unless you maybe already has 2-3 guys under 23 who were offensive dmen.

I prefer 2-way or strong defensive defenseman in my top 4. Do you have any prospects that project to be in the top 4 with that sort of playstyle?

 

[Spektre]

I have seen people with strong opinions concerning the prospects in their organization. I believe this is the strongest example of someone trying to convince another fanbase they need a particular prospect that doesn't belong to their current organization. I guess that counts for something, so +1 for that.