Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[Farmboy Patty]

I'm with Pascal on this. He can scratch whatever guys he wants if he feels they aren't "going". Up to the coach.

Patty talking about how unfair it is or embarrassing it is, is to me off track. This is a good step if it gets him and others to stop thinking they are entitled to play every game.

A player and a coach can have different thoughts of the performance of the player without anyone feeling entitled. Entitlement is more like a “don’t you know who I am!?” kind of attitude.

 

[NotCommitted]

I think he probably came back too soon after the concussion. I'd say though the WSH game he was starting to look like himself, not playing his best game by far, but at least he looked like Patrik Laine. He was creating in the O-zone and overall playing OK besides the couple mistakes.

Anyway I said it before, I think Vincent is going about it backwards basically benching guys for offense, but who knows maybe he's right and me (and Laine) are wrong. He knows Laine well, maybe he gets the response he's looking for.

Vincent says he has a plan and a vision, for the time being I'd be inclined to go with that, but OTOH it kinda needs to start happening soon. This team shouldn't be competing with the 20-21 team for longest losing streaks.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I don't understand why people ask questions if they don't really want the answers. He had several microphones in front of him.

People do want the answers. The issue is whether the subject should want to share them or whether to be prudent is better.

No there is not universal agreement on the matter. But "why are people asking questions if they don't want answers" is the wrong question.

 

[NotCommitted]

People do want the answers. The issue is whether the subject should want to share them or whether to be prudent is better.

No there is not universal agreement on the matter. But "why are people asking questions if they don't want answers" is the wrong question.

I dunno, I just don't see anything in his answers he shouldn't have said. He could've said things he would've regretted later but didn't, though he had to imply he might, so maybe not a perfect job holding back but close enough for rock'n'roll. Is there really anything there that's surprising or particularly disagreeable? Also I said it before and Laine basically said the same things about benching guys for reasons that essentially have nothing to do with effort or 'not trying'. I doubt benching is the thing that gets guys going offensively, Vincent seems to disagree, I honestly hope I'm wrong and he's right.

I also don't see the "entitlement", but I also don't think Laine was the worst forward in the lineup in the WSH game or that the team would do better dressing someone else before him. Healthy scratching him after that game was a bit weird to me. It makes it seem like it was mostly about that forced pass attempt in the o-zone. I don't think he was playing anywhere near his best level, but at least he was looking like he might be getting there, it was A LOT better game from him than the ones before it and a big step in the right direction. Unlike the games before that one, I could recognize the player I think he came back too soon from the concussion though and if I had been calling the shots, I'd have sat him earlier for the reason he needs more time.

 

[stevo61]

A player and a coach can have different thoughts of the performance of the player without anyone feeling entitled. Entitlement is more like a “don’t you know who I am!?” kind of attitude.

NA sports and media are not so direct as some some other countries. Finns can be pretty direct and that gets recieved differently. Its why Canadians have the reputation for having no personality because there are basic phrashes everyone uses to answer questions and to deviate from that is almost a sin.

I like Laine for his bluntness, I do wish he didnt experience such highs and lows confidence wise though

 

[squashmaple]

I think he probably came back too soon after the concussion. I'd say though the WSH game he was starting to look like himself, not playing his best game by far, but at least he looked like Patrik Laine. He was creating in the O-zone and overall playing OK besides the couple mistakes.

Anyway I said it before, I think Vincent is going about it backwards basically benching guys for offense, but who knows maybe he's right and me (and Laine) are wrong. He knows Laine well, maybe he gets the response he's looking for.

Vincent says he has a plan and a vision, for the time being I'd be inclined to go with that, but OTOH it kinda needs to start happening soon. This team shouldn't be competing with the 20-21 team for longest losing streaks.

Vincent has known Patty longer than anyone in the league. If Vincent isn't doing the usual handling Laine by the edges like he's always been handled to this point, then there's a reason. It's a kick in the ass that should shock him. I don't know that I like it, but I suppose I can see why he's trying this tactic.

There's more wrong with this team than right currently, and Laine is not the only fire burning even if it is one of the more major ones.

 

[Marioesque]

Must be a cultural difference, honest and even blunt answers can be expected from Finns.

There's a difference between being embarrassed that you ended up in a situation, and blaming others for embarrassing you. I think there's the mixup in people interpreting this. I didn't feel Laine was claiming anyone embarrassed him, but that the situation that he's played so bad to get there would be embarrassing for him, and motivating at the same time.

I mean, he clearly didn't think he'd get better by sitting a game and wants to play through it.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Hey guys, just visiting from other boards, I come in peace.

Long-time Jets fan, was a fan of Laine's when he played in Winnipeg, but I have to be honest I don't follow what goes on in Columbus at all. Couple questions if someone doesn't mind:

1. Laine and Vincent. Vincent was head coach for the Manitoba Moose (Winnipeg's farm team) the entire time Laine was with the Jets. Vincent then joined Laine in Columbus a few months after the trade. I don't remember ever hearing the two discussed in the same breath however. Has there been any reporting on what the relationship between the two men?

2. Why exactly is Laine playing center? Is that something he wants to do? Are they trying to get him to play more defensively? Or are you guys just that short at center?

 

[stevo61]

Hey guys, just visiting from other boards, I come in peace.

Long-time Jets fan, was a fan of Laine's when he played in Winnipeg, but I have to be honest I don't follow what goes on in Columbus at all. Couple questions if someone doesn't mind:

1. Laine and Vincent. Vincent was head coach for the Manitoba Moose (Winnipeg's farm team) the entire time Laine was with the Jets. Vincent then joined Laine in Columbus a few months after the trade. I don't remember ever hearing the two discussed in the same breath however. Has there been any reporting on what the relationship between the two men?

2. Why exactly is Laine playing center? Is that something he wants to do? Are they trying to get him to play more defensively? Or are you guys just that short at center?

We were short last year with all the injuries and Laine proposed the idea. It actually helps his game as hes usually in motion so there arent so many stops and starts. We'll see if its done for good or not but its atleast good to know hes not a bust in that position. He trained with the intention of competing for a center job over the summer.

As for Vincent, Laine seemed pretty happy when he got the job but with everything going on now with the losing its not surprising tensions are high. He may not agree with Vincent's use of benchings/scratches but it is what it is, the team as a whole has to figure things out.

 

[NotCommitted]

1. Laine and Vincent. Vincent was head coach for the Manitoba Moose (Winnipeg's farm team) the entire time Laine was with the Jets. Vincent then joined Laine in Columbus a few months after the trade. I don't remember ever hearing the two discussed in the same breath however. Has there been any reporting on what the relationship between the two men?

2. Why exactly is Laine playing center? Is that something he wants to do? Are they trying to get him to play more defensively? Or are you guys just that short at center?

1. AFAIK it's good, at least Laine was all praises of Vincent when it became known he'll be the head coach.

2. He played 2 games at center last year when they had an injury on already very thin center lineup and Laine offered to step in. He did well those two games and had excellent pre-season playing center, apparently it's something he's been wanting to try. He was also playing center before his concussion, I thought he did ok. His defensive play has not been an issue since his 1st season in Columbus IMO. For the past two-seasons combined he was the only regular in the line up at or over 50% goals for and his underlying metrics were also among the best and he lead the team in P/GP, it's the injuries that have been the problem.

The center position looks better now and if young guys pan out, it could be great going forward, so I don't think they need Laine playing C anymore, remains to be seen what happens with that going forward.

 

[thebus88]

Fascinated (not surprised) that people could take any positives from these new Laine quotes, or his overall play from this year.

Good f***ing Riddance!!

Make the call Jarmo. A young C with potential and a “cap dump”.

 

[tunnelvision]

At the time of signing his 4-year extension:

Let's hope this deal won't be less tradeable than a 2 or 3 year contract, which is what I would have preferred.

Well, I don't like the direction we're heading right now. Many seem to think he currently has negative value. At this point I'm just hoping he stays healthy and consistent enough so that one day his trade value would get even remotely close to what it was 1,5 years ago.

 

[Raimo Sillanpää]

He needs to be realistic. He has to put the work to battle more and move his legs. He should be more aggressive with his shot - when was the last time he shot in 2-1 attacks?

But that’s professional coaching. Game after game, year after year, “Yes great you scored but, it was 67% likely to be saved, now if you had passed our chances would have gone up to 72,3% - so next time pass damn it”

And so he stared to shy away from those fantastic goals, those that he shouldn’t score but did, that inflated his expected goals just because his shot was so off the chart. And when he was only taking the safe shots, his expected goals dropped to the line of where they should be.

There is of course a huge area in this game for advanced stats, but every now and then somebody comes along who is so exceptional that the normal rules don’t apply. And they rewrite the rules or the formulas to count their stats. And that requires cockiness. Funny that has such a negative connotation in English.

In rounding out Patrick to make him a better overall player who makes smarter decisions and safer plays, that cockiness got coached out.

The teenage reaction to being benched, sounds like it’s still there. Just needed to be lit up, maybe that’s what Vicent is trying to do. A Laine who wants to show his coach and the rest of the league the middle finger - is the 18 goals a month Laine.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I dunno, I just don't see anything in his answers he shouldn't have said. He could've said things he would've regretted later but didn't, though he had to imply he might, so maybe not a perfect job holding back but close enough for rock'n'roll. Is there really anything there that's surprising or particularly disagreeable? Also I said it before and Laine basically said the same things about benching guys for reasons that essentially have nothing to do with effort or 'not trying'. I doubt benching is the thing that gets guys going offensively, Vincent seems to disagree, I honestly hope I'm wrong and he's right.

I also don't see the "entitlement", but I also don't think Laine was the worst forward in the lineup in the WSH game or that the team would do better dressing someone else before him. Healthy scratching him after that game was a bit weird to me. It makes it seem like it was mostly about that forced pass attempt in the o-zone. I don't think he was playing anywhere near his best level, but at least he was looking like he might be getting there, it was A LOT better game from him than the ones before it and a big step in the right direction. Unlike the games before that one, I could recognize the player I think he came back too soon from the concussion though and if I had been calling the shots, I'd have sat him earlier for the reason he needs more time.

OK but you said why do people ask questions if they don't want answers. The people asking question do want answers.

 

[koteka]

With what we know about Vincent, I feel confident that he has communicated very clearly to Laine (and anyone else benched or scratched) what the reasons were and expectations are. (We can debate about whether Vincent’s lack of experience hampers team performance but I believe one of his core tenets is communication.)

I hope the players, and Laine specifically in this case, are as clear and open in their communication to the coach in return, and that the story doesn’t contain anything Vincent hasn’t already heard.

Vincent does seem like he enjoys talking and explaining his reasons for what he is doing. Not only do I hope the players are clearly communicating back to Vincent, but I hope Vincent is willing to listen to their opinions and is open to reassessing his view based on their conversations.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Thanks for the Laine update guys.

Well, I don't like the direction we're heading right now. Many seem to think he currently has negative value. At this point I'm just hoping he stays healthy and consistent enough so that one day his trade value would get even remotely close to what it was 1,5 years ago.

While I don't think Laine has the same value he had in 2020, there's no way he's a negative trade value. He's 25 years old, close to a PPG player, only under contract 3 more seasons. Salary cap hit would make him hard to trade (just because salary would be coming the other way) but lots of teams would like to try and unlock the talent there.

 

[VT]

If Laine shows his potential, why we should trade him? It would be stupidity.

 

[NotCommitted]

OK but you said why do people ask questions if they don't want answers. The people asking question do want answers.

It was not me who said that but whatever

 

[VT]

I don't have good enough English to understand this well can anyone tell me approximately what Friedmann is talking about in the video?

 

[majormajor]

I don't have good enough English to understand this well can anyone tell me approximately what Friedmann is talking about in the video?

It's speculation.

He thinks Laine might want to get traded, but it's entirely based on the blunt comments Laine made after he was scratched.

They've also talked a lot about the center v wing thing.

It just seems like they don't know much about Laine.

 

[VT]

It's speculation.

He thinks Laine might want to get traded, but it's entirely based on the blunt comments Laine made after he was scratched.

They've also talked a lot about the center v wing thing.

It just seems like they don't know much about Laine.

So, if I understand correctly, in the video (not the text) he's saying that Laine was angry that he was a HS and not playing center, that's why he wants to be traded.

Maybe I'm blind and deaf, but he likes Vincent, Pascal likes him too.

 

[majormajor]

So, if I understand correctly, in the video (not the text) he's saying that Laine was angry that he was a HS and not playing center, that's why he wants to be traded.

Maybe I'm blind and deaf, but he likes Vincent, Pascal likes him too.

No, Marek and Friedman have been speculating that the Jackets tried Laine at center as a desperate move to try and salvage the player. Marek and Friedman seem to be unaware that he was actually good for most of last year. They also seem to be unaware that his success or struggles have little to do with position. They have never even acknowledged that he just had a concussion.

There's no indication that Laine was angry about which position he was at, and they didn't speculate on that.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

No, Marek and Friedman have been speculating that the Jackets tried Laine at center as a desperate move to try and salvage the player. Marek and Friedman seem to be unaware that he was actually good for most of last year. They also seem to be unaware that his success or struggles have little to do with position. They have never even acknowledged that he just had a concussion.

There's no indication that Laine was angry about which position he was at, and they didn't speculate on that.

Would have expected better knowledge from these two. Pretty disappponting.



This comment from Friedman was also completely out of touch. Laine 110% understands why he was benched. He may have disagreed with the decision, because he believes sitting wont help getting back to form, but disagreements with coaches are normal.

I used to love how straight up Laine was about everything, but I'm starting to get sick of these headlines it creates by people who dont watch the team. Maybe it'd be best if Laine started to shut down the personality a bit when it comes to these types of interviews

 

[VT]

No, Marek and Friedman have been speculating that the Jackets tried Laine at center as a desperate move to try and salvage the player. Marek and Friedman seem to be unaware that he was actually good for most of last year. They also seem to be unaware that his success or struggles have little to do with position. They have never even acknowledged that he just had a concussion.

There's no indication that Laine was angry about which position he was at, and they didn't speculate on that.

Would have expected better knowledge from these two. Pretty disappponting.

Friedmans

You can write any bad thing about Laine, 4/5 fans believe it. Also that he turned into a crocodile and eats people.

 

[Napoli]

What is wrong with Friedman? Where does he get this shit? It's based on zero facts and just pure speculation. Dude has become the new Eklund rambling off complete BS for clicks. Its sad.


Not for a second do I think this team wants to trade Laine. Yes he needs to play better but he was really good last year on a shit team and he's coming off a concussion. I think he's got a little more leash than what Elliott Friedman thinks.