Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[cbjthrowaway]

^^ That being said, I too would love to know more about the Gudbranson-Laine incident. It was just brushed to the side after the fact pretty quickly. I'm inclined to believe that it's pretty much what was said above, a minor incident of some words and nothing indicative of any bigger issue, but it would be fun to know more details. Guess we'll have to wait 10+ years and hope somebody writes a tell-all book.

once again, the gudbranson comments were about how they'd been practicing for the past few weeks, and how star players weren't being held accountable for not performing.

those comments came five days after laine returned from an injury that had kept him out for three weeks – i.e. he wasn't around for most of the 'bad practices' gudbranson was talking about.

he was their most productive player in the few games since coming back – i.e. he was performing well.

there's nothing to indicate that gudbranson's comments had anything to do with laine specifically.

 

[thebus88]

once again, the gudbranson comments were about how they'd been practicing for the past few weeks, and how star players weren't being held accountable for not performing.

those comments came five days after laine returned from an injury that had kept him out for three weeks – i.e. he wasn't around for most of the 'bad practices' gudbranson was talking about.

he was their most productive player in the few games since coming back – i.e. he was performing well.

there's nothing to indicate that gudbranson's comments had anything to do with laine specifically.

You (and others) sure make plenty of assumptions in favor of Patty. Your focus (and the accuracy) on these “timelines” regarding the Laine injuries, his coming back, and the apparent “problem practices” are at best misleading when attempting to prove his innocence. I wouldn’t be surprised if the practice thing was an issue all year, even then, the comments came literally after Laine had been practicing for a week. That’s 1/3 of the apparent “few weeks” that were a problem as is.

Again, the Larsen interview should not be downplayed, IMO. IDK if he put the “muzzle” on himself, or if JK/JD did it for him, but, there’s (at least was) something more there than the “problem practices”, or at the very least, the subject shouldn’t have been downplayed the way it was.

I guarantee the players don’t look at Laine’s effort, defensive play, and his “productivity” the way his fan club does. I assure you, at this point in the year after a season like this, not a single CBJ player REALLY wants to give an interview just to give praise to Laine about his points scoring, increased effort, or him making some sort of personal sacrifice for the team.

When you spell it out simply in this manner, in an effort to exonerate Laine, IMO, it literally sounds even more like it’s about Laine. In your own words you say “star player(s)”, were the apparent issue. Which players would fit into that category??

With the same information that I have, I have a simple question, WHO do you guys think is the problem??

And why is it Johnny Gaudreau and not Patrik Laine??

 

[Viqsi]

With the same information that I have, I have a simple question, WHO do you guys think is the problem??

Your logical fallacy is loaded question

You asked a question that had a presumption built into it so that it couldn't be answered without appearing guilty.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

Your question inherently assumes that issues with this team must necessarily be directly tracable to some individual whose removal is necessary for the good of the team. This is IMO a fallacious premise and one that leads to sloppy thinking and erroneous rushes to judgement.

 

[VT]

A simple article about how it was said that Laine is not lazy (btw, Torts said that too and if he was, they would have traded him and not Bjorkie) and the opinion of the players about his play center. But nobody said it is a personal sacrifice. Also if Patrik doesn't want to try it, he wouldn't do it (he said somewhere that he thinks he's stagnating as a winger) ... and already the hype is building, Lars words and Gudbranson's words/behaviour are surfacing , although no one knows what they were referring to.

I'm beginning to regret putting this here.

 

[thebus88]

Your logical fallacy is loaded question

You asked a question that had a presumption built into it so that it couldn't be answered without appearing guilty.

yourlogicalfallacyis.com

Your question inherently assumes that issues with this team must necessarily be directly tracable to some individual whose removal is necessary for the good of the team. This is IMO a fallacious premise and one that leads to sloppy thinking and erroneous rushes to judgement.

No, the vast majority of those who defend Laine for any potential issue he may bring, continuously have the same exact “complaints” and “claims” about Gaudreau that they routinely attack others for having similar beliefs about Laine.

You are being misleading about the situation and what I and others were taking about. The issues at practice. Hinted or admitted by at least Larsen and Gudbranson. And mentions more players.

Who is/are/were the “culprit(s)”??

 

[Viqsi]

No, the vast majority of those who defend Laine for any potential issue he may bring, continuously have the same exact “complaints” and “claims” about Gaudreau that they routinely attack others for having similar beliefs about Laine.

I haven't seen that at all. I don't see anybody tearing down Gaudreau to prop up Laine.

You are being misleading about the situation and what I and others were taking about. The issues at practice. Hinted or admitted by at least Larsen and Gudbranson. And mentions more players.

Who is/are/were the “culprit(s)”??

So long as it doesn't come up again I frankly don't give a f***. People make mistakes, and then hopefully they learn from them and grow.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

You (and others) sure make plenty of assumptions in favor of Patty.

Your focus (and the accuracy) on these “timelines” regarding the Laine injuries, his coming back, and the apparent “problem practices” are at best misleading when attempting to prove his innocence.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the practice thing was an issue all year, even then, the comments came literally after Laine had been practicing for a week. That’s 1/3 of the apparent “few weeks” that were a problem as is.

what portzline wrote was:
1. veterans were frustrated by the light practices
2. there was insufficient accountability for some players
3. the veterans (likely) asked larsen to make the practices tougher

you complained about 'assumptions' but it's a much bigger assumption to say that's all specifically about laine than to say that it's not. let alone to say that the jackets somehow planted this story (via scheig of all people, lol) to 'keep laine happy'

With the same information that I have, I have a simple question, WHO do you guys think is the problem??

And why is it Johnny Gaudreau and not Patrik Laine??

it's neither.

laine's not gonna win any selkes but that doesn't mean he doesn't work hard in practice or hold himself accountable. he worked his way back from injury ahead of schedule twice in the month before those quotes/stories about the cbj practice issues.

meanwhile, there are two players on this team who have been reported to have actual work ethic issues: jack roslovic and elvis merzlikins.

via frank seravall in his trade bait column multiple times (emphasis mine):

Roslovic’s point production has been solid, touching 20 goals for the first time last year, but his effort and work rate have been described as inconsistent.

via aaron portzline in january

Merzlikins has been moderately better of late, but there are growing concerns about his work ethic, especially when he’s not getting regular playing time. Kekalainen wouldn’t address those publicly, except to say …

again, the quotes came after the buffalo game. here's each player's statline after that game:
- roslovic: 1 goal, 8 assists in 22 GP
- elvis: 2-7-0 record, .856 sv% (sub-.900 in 10 of 11 games played)

there's the 'insufficient accountability' you're looking for. not hard to figure out.

 

[Marioesque]

No, the vast majority of those who defend Laine for any potential issue he may bring, continuously have the same exact “complaints” and “claims” about Gaudreau that they routinely attack others for having similar beliefs about Laine.

You are being misleading about the situation and what I and others were taking about. The issues at practice. Hinted or admitted by at least Larsen and Gudbranson. And mentions more players.

Who is/are/were the “culprit(s)”??

You get asked about Gaudreau because you single Laine out when he's the team leader in all positive stats. Your argument is always money, that Laine gets paid too much for what he brings.

That narrative is immediately destroyed by asking who else is worth their pay then? You see value in Johnny who costs more and produces less positive impact.

Nobody is seriously questioning Johnny. They're pointing out your hypocrisy, how these standards of yours only apply to Laine.

You start looking for the cause of bad season from the wrong end. Laine has been the best player in the team this season, statistics show that too. Reasonable people understand we suck this bad this season due to injuries , not because of the only player in the roster with a positive goal differential in the entire team 5 on 5.

 

[Halberdier]

This is getting so delusional. Everyone loves Johnny, he is super nice guy and even if he is now underperforming on a really bad team that is tanking with no real 1C and no permanent other winger as a linemate, I don't see a reason to be worried about Johnny. As the team get's better, Johnny will be like he started the season, just with better "luck" I guess (in the beginning of the season the 1st line was often all over the opponent, but couldn't score much, which generates further problems). Also nobody is talking crap about Johnny to make Patty look better. That's delusional too.

 

[koteka]

With the same information that I have, I have a simple question, WHO do you guys think is the problem??

Gavin Bayreuther. Before he joined the team, the Jackets made the playoffs four years in a row. Bayreuther signed as a free agent right before the 2020-21 season and he played some games that season. Team has been worse every year since.

Q.E.D.

Seattle really dodged a bullet with Bayreuther.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Gavin Bayreuther. Before he joined the team, the Jackets made the playoffs four years in a row. Bayreuther signed as a free agent right before the 2020-21 season and he played some games that season. Team has been worse every year since.

Q.E.D.

Seattle really dodged a bullet with Bayreuther.

it takes a real gavin baysleuther to uncover a conspiracy this big

 

[ThirdPeriodTurtle]

once again, the gudbranson comments were about how they'd been practicing for the past few weeks, and how star players weren't being held accountable for not performing.

those comments came five days after laine returned from an injury that had kept him out for three weeks – i.e. he wasn't around for most of the 'bad practices' gudbranson was talking about.

he was their most productive player in the few games since coming back – i.e. he was performing well.

there's nothing to indicate that gudbranson's comments had anything to do with laine specifically.

I'm sorry but that's not what I'm talking about. You don't remember Laine shouting at Gudbranson on the ice in a game (or the other way around)? I don't care about the training comments/the article (just a rehash of public comments)/whatever this discussion is. I guess I'm not in with thebus after all, we're talking about different things. I know/remember the training stuff very well as that was around the Finland trip and had the local commentary involved etc.

I'm not sure if I should bring this up because it will probably just add to the discussion at hand... but whatever:

Our GDT thread page 3 onwards Game 50 against Seattle

Dispatch quote:

Columbus Blue Jackets teammates, Patrik Laine and Erik Gudbranson have in-game spat
According to the Bally’s Sports Ohio broadcast, Wennberg’s goal at 8:33 of the second period caused a flare-up between Blue Jackets teammates Patrik Laine and Erik Gudbranson.

Gudbranson and defense partner, rookie Tim Berni, were each unable to break up the play around the net between Jordan Eberle and Wennberg – who split the Columbus defenders to snap a shot past Merzlikins from the doorstep of the crease. Laine apparently yelled something that set Gudbranson off to the point that he needed to be settled by the coaching staff before play restarted.

I missed it live and I don't think there was any video, so it's bugged me a bit. But ok I guess it was settled, later in the same thread CBJWerenski8:

"Well that was a good exchange there between Gudbranson and Laine. Good on both guys for squishing the issue quickly"
"Gudbranson was talking to a coach (D coach who’s name escapes me right now), then got off the bench and approached Laine who was coming onto the ice. Gudbranson spoke to him and patted him on the chest a few times. Seemingly apologizing for going at him or yelling. Laine looked like he was saying “we’re all good” and they were talking about the play in question."

So I guess it's settled and nothing else came out of it. (I do wonder now if this had something to do with Laine's desire to try center, making sure it actually is his play to make if he gets the blame for it anyway...)

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I'm sorry but that's not what I'm talking about. You don't remember Laine shouting at Gudbranson on the ice in a game (or the other way around)? I don't care about the training comments/the article (just a rehash of public comments)/whatever this discussion is. I guess I'm not in with thebus after all, we're talking about different things. I know/remember the training stuff very well as that was around the Finland trip and had the local commentary involved etc.

yeah these are totally separate issues.

thebus is talking about the practice comments from larsen/gudbranson after the buffalo game + 'lack of accountability' stuff portzline talked about.

as i said, if those comments were about anyone in particular, it was probably roslovic + elvis, since stuff has come out via portzline and national reporters about the front office having concerns over their work ethic.

the seattle thing was 25 games after those comments and, as you said, appeared to get squashed pretty much right away.

 

[NotCommitted]

So I guess it's starting to look like Laine is out for the season, he said his injury is supposed to take another 2.5 weeks and it's not feeling great at the moment. Not sure about WHC, said he's always interested and available if health permits. Also expressed interest in playing more C, said he'd love to continue playing it to see how well he can do as center, really liked it so far, but also that it's not up to him alone.

 

[thebus88]

People are ignoring/forgetting the issues that have been hinted at and could be seen on the ice earlier in the year.

[Q

Have been hinted at? You mean you have been hinting at?

The power of projection compels you!

I'm sorry but that's not what I'm talking about. You don't remember Laine shouting at Gudbranson on the ice in a game (or the other way around)? I don't care about the training comments/the article (just a rehash of public comments)/whatever this discussion is. I guess I'm not in with thebus after all, we're talking about different things.

Naw, I’m with you BaconT, I just also think the practice stuff shouldn’t be dismissed either.

People just jump in and belittle, misrepresent, and dismiss.

Multiple “incidents” throughout the year that are NOT common. There was another I remember specifically involving Kuraly and I believe 1 of Laine or Gudbranson also. Body language between players all wrong.

Also the “answers”, LACK of answers, and read of the overall attitude/body language I got from Larsen answering questions regarding the practice issues (and other things) was a clear red flag.

All just dismissed as “normal frustration” by people who don’t know any better, after getting their information from the very people who wouldn’t/don’t want to talk about a possible issue in public.

 

[Marioesque]

Naw, I’m with you BaconT, I just also think the practice stuff shouldn’t be dismissed either.

People just jump in and belittle, misrepresent, and dismiss.

Multiple “incidents” throughout the year that are NOT common. There was another I remember specifically involving Kuraly and I believe 1 of Laine or Gudbranson also. Body language between players all wrong.

Also the “answers”, LACK of answers, and read of the overall attitude/body language I got from Larsen answering questions regarding the practice issues (and other things) was a clear red flag.

All just dismissed as “normal frustration” by people who don’t know any better, after getting their information from the very people who wouldn’t/don’t want to talk about a possible issue in public.

I tend to not believe in things I don't have evidence for. You seeing things and interpreting some rift out of that isn't convincing.

 

[Crede777]

I tend to not believe in things I don't have evidence for. You seeing things and interpreting some rift out of that isn't convincing.

Agreed. Unless it's being openly reported on then it's pure speculation which, while entertaining to talk about shouldn't be actively believed.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Also the “answers”, LACK of answers, and read of the overall attitude/body language I got from Larsen answering questions regarding the practice issues (and other things) was a clear red flag.

first of all, no NHL player or coach (non-Torts division) has ever given an interesting or substantive answer in a press conference. they just parrot the same stuff about working hard and getting pucks deep. there's not a conspiracy here, that's just how they are.

second, maybe people would take this more seriously if you actually explained WHAT you saw from larsen in that interview beyond just saying 'body language' without any actual descriptors. cbj posts their media availabilities – you could find the video and point to specific timestamps instead of just saying the vibes were off or whatever.

All just dismissed as “normal frustration” by people who don’t know any better, after getting their information from the very people who wouldn’t/don’t want to talk about a possible issue in public.

there's a difference between saying a bad team might have tension in the room and saying that everyone in the room must secretly hate patrik laine, which is what you've actually been saying.

you took the larsen/gudbranson comments + portzline saying 'some players' weren't being accountable and said they could only be about laine, and that the team planted a story with mark scheig (lol) to distract the public.

as i said above: the team has two guys – merzlikins and roslovic – who unlike laine have reportedly (through actual reporters!) had their work ethic questioned by the team and were underperforming at the time the comments were made.

that must've taken some of the wind out of your anti-laine sails, because now you're reframing it as a whole-team issue because the body language is bad. of course it's bad, they're in last place! what do you expect?

you're saying that your argument is being misrepresented, but you're changing your argument now to misrepresent what everyone else was saying to you in the first place.

 

[VT]

To Laine as the center. Aleksandr Barkov's word.

Patrik Laine yllätti kaikki – pian kilahti Aleksander Barkovin puhelin

Patrik Laine seurasi Aleksander Barkovin jalanjälkiä keskikaistalle ja kysäisi ystävältään vinkkejä.

www.is.fi

 

[CBJx614]

To Laine as the center. Aleksandr Barkov's word.

Patrik Laine yllätti kaikki – pian kilahti Aleksander Barkovin puhelin

Patrik Laine seurasi Aleksander Barkovin jalanjälkiä keskikaistalle ja kysäisi ystävältään vinkkejä.

www.is.fi

My favorite line from the translator.

He really isn’t just about shots, but is able to feed, make a game, and keep a puck. He is a good skater. It has a lot of good strengths and potential to be a holistic player, Barkov shit.

 

[Halberdier]

Are there any info about how Laine is recovering from his injury? I would really love to see him on WC if he is fully healed.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Are there any info about how Laine is recovering from his injury? I would really love to see him on WC if he is fully healed.

portzline casually mentioned in his sunday gathering piece that laine actually tore his triceps (it was only reported as a strain before so he might be wrong) which wouldn't bode well for him playing at WCs but you never know

 

[VT]

portzline casually mentioned in his sunday gathering piece that laine actually tore his triceps (it was only reported as a strain before so he might be wrong) which wouldn't bode well for him playing at WCs but you never know

WC will start 05/12. After 1 month. So he might be health.

 

[Vapaatunnus]

MSN

At least season is over.

 

[Youngguns1380]

MSN

At least season is over.