I’ll be completely honest, I’m not sure I’ll be able to handle an entire summer of daily/weekly updates on the prospects of Barkov taking Laine under his wing and teaching him how to become a top NHL center….
Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)
- Thread starter Viqsi
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I’ll be completely honest, I’m not sure I’ll be able to handle an entire summer of daily/weekly updates on the prospects of Barkov taking Laine under his wing and teaching him how to become a top NHL center….
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
...hon, you're starting to really reach here w/r/t justifying your dislike of the player. He doesn't have to be perfect to be useful.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Enh. Hope springs eternal.I’ll be completely honest, I’m not sure I’ll be able to handle an entire summer of daily/weekly updates on the prospects of Barkov taking Laine under his wing and teaching him how to become a top NHL center….
If it does happen, I will be appropriately shocked and gleeful. I'm not exactly holding my breath tho. I'm just glad that he's showing that drive to improve himself, regardless. No guarantee that it'll help - Roz has that drive too, to a lesser extent, and yet he's still Roz - but better to have it than not.
If I understand correctly, work of players, coaches, management, journalists etc. is to make Laine happy. One always learns new things. 
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Literally such an innocent harmless article. There is no reason to think Laine is like, the best leader ever, but my god.
[Q
Have been hinted at? You mean you have been hinting at?
The power of projection compels you!
Have been hinted at? You mean you have been hinting at?
The power of projection compels you!
I almost feel like I have to side with thebus here because I dislike The Hockey Writers so much. Never any real news or new information there, just rehash after rehash for clickbait or the odd opinion piece. Scheig is one of the better writers there for sure but even his attempts at original content end up like this, just bones with no meat.
To add to the actual conversation, there's some thinking in Finland that Laine might have trouble at C over the long term because he's not used to "stop/start" game and maybe that's not his best forté physically either, i.e. he might have trouble with gap control and being explosive enough to start offense after defending etc, and just overall playing a 200 ft game. This was brought up in the local Kimanttia podcast (with Jukka Jalonen as the guest, great episode as the guest episodes tend to be). Everybody's obviously real curious about how this will go. Shame about the injury.
To add to the actual conversation, there's some thinking in Finland that Laine might have trouble at C over the long term because he's not used to "stop/start" game and maybe that's not his best forté physically either, i.e. he might have trouble with gap control and being explosive enough to start offense after defending etc, and just overall playing a 200 ft game. This was brought up in the local Kimanttia podcast (with Jukka Jalonen as the guest, great episode as the guest episodes tend to be). Everybody's obviously real curious about how this will go. Shame about the injury.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
I'll admit most of why I find that article useful is that sometimes people pay more attention to this stuff when it's written by a paid profession rather than Yet Another HFBoards Poster.
For me it was important that Patrik is not lazy. Whether he can be a center nobody can say.
so it's either:
patrik laine's teammates genuinely think that he's grown as a leader over the last two years and expressed that genuinely (albeit in a boring way because they're hockey players!) when scheig asked them about it, which scheig then turned into a story
or
the blue jackets, who signed patrik laine to a $35m contract last summer, feel that they need to do more to keep him happy, so their PR staff told mark scheig (of all people!) to write a piece saying that laine has grown as a leader because… patrik laine is obsessed with reading hehockeywriters dot com
frankly it is impossible to know which of these is the more likely explanation for this story existing
such as…?
the initial torts/laine fit two years ago was rocky, and that was evident when looking at his TOI distribution. that pattern is absent this year – he has the third highest ATOI of any forward.
| Patrik Laine | 20-21 (Torts) | 22-23 (Larsen) |
| games played | 45 | 55 |
| games w/ >15m TOI | 9 (20%) | 1* (left w/injury) |
| games with >20m TOI | 7 (15%) | 16 (29%) |
are you seriously bringing up the time that john tortorella benched patrik laine over two years ago for saying something to larsen on the bench?
No, Larsen and Gudbranson, and maybe another person. Multiple comments and body language hinting at some sort of issue behind the scenes/in the locker room.
No way it could be something involving Laine or Merzlikins because I am a “hater”. Voracek is also a possible candidate of being involved with something IMO.
Either way, I have no “facts”, just some innocent quotes from a coach and veteran defender just signed as a UFA, that you practically never hear from an NHL player.
sure, but that's also why thebus's argument that it's all subterfuge to 'keep laine happy' makes no sense whatsoever lol
it's pretty likely (given who has historically broken CBJ roster moves) that the jackets brass maybe occasionally leaks stuff to national guys like friedman. the local guys kinda just write whatever the lowest-hanging fruit is. vincent's quote about the center move being laine's idea made this pretty low-hanging fruit for scheig.
Aside from that little incident, and we don't even know what it was about, can you post quotes from the coach, Gudbranson, and also elaborate on the body language? The last one is no joke, since you probably attend at least some of the games.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Damn. I had meant to post "in before someone posts what do you expect them to say" but I forgot.
It seems some (results) are (controllable).
It seems some (results) are (controllable).
Well then you shouldn't have a problem with anyone describing that as feelings based analysis, you know you have your own interpretation of some chosen quotes as "evidence ", not any factual information.
the actual, full context – since you haven't provided it – is, per portzline's article about it
part 1:
on nov. 14, laine sustained an ankle injury.
on dec. 2, he returned ahead of schedule to the lineup and scored two goals. he also scored two goals in that buffalo game.
part 2:
again, laine had just returned to the lineup a few days before that after being out. how could he be part of the problem of them not practicing well if he wasn't practicing at all until a few days prior due to injury?
regarding the 'insufficient accountability in the face of losing' part, well… he wasn't around (due to injury) for the majority of the games gudbranson was talking about, and when he did return to the lineup he was one of their more productive players. and they won his first game back.
given that context, even reed richards himself would think it's a big stretch to say that gudbranson's comments were somehow about laine.
Here you guys go morphing my “arguments” and “opinions” into whatever nonsense you guys have in your own minds.
If we want to go “conspiracy theory” route, I believe it’s more probable that Scheig is possibly a poster here and is using his “credibility” as a professional writer to attempt to prove a bogus narrative that a group of Laine fans (that people who lack actual hockey knowledge have latched onto) are attempting to claim is “reality”.
Very rarely does the CBJ media EVER ask any sort of “hard hitting” questions regarding any sort of important subject that brings any sort of negative attention or implication to the team or organization. Every small glimpse of ANY sort of problem is barely ever followed up on. Most other things that are noticed, however small they are, are dismissed because of the inherent lack of “facts” given regarding private situations.
Somebody give me an example, other than undeniable problems with players in the past, where a current player doesn’t give a positive answer regarding playing with a teammate or their work as a player/pro…all the same PR “fluff” we hear about Laine from all the other players, currently.
I can promise you, even if players do see a change (that NEEDED to occur) in Laine from 2 years ago, and they do actually believe all the things they say to the media about teammates (Laine or ANY other player) not a single player is looking at Laine’s decision to ask the coaches if they wanted him to play center, as ANY sort of personal sacrifice that Laine is making for the well being of the team.
Where is Mark Scheig’s piece titled, “Blue Jackets answer honestly why they think the team has sucked the last 3 years”??
Why doesn’t it exist?? Mark??
If we want to go “conspiracy theory” route, I believe it’s more probable that Scheig is possibly a poster here and is using his “credibility” as a professional writer to attempt to prove a bogus narrative that a group of Laine fans (that people who lack actual hockey knowledge have latched onto) are attempting to claim is “reality”.
Very rarely does the CBJ media EVER ask any sort of “hard hitting” questions regarding any sort of important subject that brings any sort of negative attention or implication to the team or organization. Every small glimpse of ANY sort of problem is barely ever followed up on. Most other things that are noticed, however small they are, are dismissed because of the inherent lack of “facts” given regarding private situations.
Somebody give me an example, other than undeniable problems with players in the past, where a current player doesn’t give a positive answer regarding playing with a teammate or their work as a player/pro…all the same PR “fluff” we hear about Laine from all the other players, currently.
I can promise you, even if players do see a change (that NEEDED to occur) in Laine from 2 years ago, and they do actually believe all the things they say to the media about teammates (Laine or ANY other player) not a single player is looking at Laine’s decision to ask the coaches if they wanted him to play center, as ANY sort of personal sacrifice that Laine is making for the well being of the team.
Where is Mark Scheig’s piece titled, “Blue Jackets answer honestly why they think the team has sucked the last 3 years”??
Why doesn’t it exist?? Mark??
That’s not the “full context”.
There was multiple “unusual” back and forth’s with players throughout the year, that (IMO) seemed more than usual “frustration”.
There was video of Larsen answering questions during a press conference, there were a couple things said, and a couple pauses, and things he seemingly (IMO) wanted to say. His quote that he did get out that bothered me was something along the lines of, “there are some things”, essentially hinting/admitting that there was SOME sort of friction behind the scenes.
I don’t have proof anything has anything to do with Laine. So it doesn’t, fine.
Forget the Finnish Flash in a Pan then, why aren’t we following up on who these “veterans seeking accountability” are and who they want accountability placed upon??
And when have journalists written the whole truth? When do the players/coaches/GM tell you everything? This doesn't just apply to Laine, but other players as well. The thing that impressed me about the article is that Scheig is no longer the first one to claim that Laine isn't lazy. Lars said that at the beginning of last season, as did Torts, while following the incident. The rest is gravy, such required reading.
Well thanks for opening that avenue, I have been struggling to not discuss your lack of understanding positions, tactics, statistics. Why your assessment of a player looks like the opposite of what I see and what the statistics people see when closely counting every second and e every touch.
I think your understanding of hockey is extremely simplistic and dated, I wouldn't trust your assessment of talent because it's proven to be not based in any real metric but something akin to reading tea leaves. You're a bit of a hockey dinosaur, and you look at Laine like they looked at chicxulub.
Maybe it threatens your view of what hockey players are supposed to be like, and you're just not tolerating the personality. I know well that speaking ones mind and showing personality can be frowned upon by "traditional" types
Xoggz22
Registered User
Just an honest question... what, in your own opinions, world Laine have to show, do, say to make your opinion of him change?
The freely available stats are highly overrated. They don't show many things. For example, stats on whether a player is improving offensively. In order to judge that, it needs to be the same conditions. Also, not every player has the same chemistry with everyone. Not to mention injuries that are unknown etc.
If I facepalm and nobody hears it, does it leave a mark? And I have so many reasons to do that. First is the article. The second is @thebus88 comments, but if I facepalm for those, I might knock myself out.
Btw. comparing Laine's ice time from the 20-21 season to past two years doesn't make any sense since he's played so much better these past two seasons. If anything Torts would've had all the reasons to bury Laine in the lineup, but he didn't and he did the right thing for the long term outlook of the team and the player. That was a really bad year for Laine and he was really struggling, I'm sure the injury and coming to new team during COVID restrictions played it's part but I also think he was struggling in large part because he was trying to do the things and play the game the way that Torts wanted him to play and a lot of that didn't come to him naturally, he had to think the game way too much. I think his effort is the reason he kept getting minutes even though he sucked. But he seemed to learn more about playing the D-side of the game during that year than he did in the previous 4 playing in WPG. I don't think Torts (or Laine) gets enough credit for that, I'm sure it wasn't all that enjoyable year of hockey for Laine but I also think this narrative of Torts & Laine "clashing" or whatever is completely bogus.
It's the low hanging fruit to create some drama between a hardass old school coach and supposedly lazy, soft, one dimensional "star winger". But I never heard Torts say a bad thing about Laine the player/person, his effort level to improve etc. and I seem to remember Laine singing praises about how Torts keeps everyone accountable and holds them to the same standard, no matter the contract or pedigree or position in the line up. And he's been asked plenty of questions about Torts since he left CBJ, the journos would love to find something there but he's never said anything but nice things about Tortorella. Was it a match made in heaven? I doubt it and you could say the results speak for themselves, but if you look that as a development year maybe we are reaping the fruits now. I'm not saying it was all St. Torts working his magic but he deserves some credit.
The fancy stats are not perfect and Laine was always quite effective (for the most part/most seasons) at playing winning 5v5 hockey relying on his insane shot and being really effective in the O-zone, but if you look at his complete game these days, it's way more... uhm, complete. Maybe another face palm there.
Btw. comparing Laine's ice time from the 20-21 season to past two years doesn't make any sense since he's played so much better these past two seasons. If anything Torts would've had all the reasons to bury Laine in the lineup, but he didn't and he did the right thing for the long term outlook of the team and the player. That was a really bad year for Laine and he was really struggling, I'm sure the injury and coming to new team during COVID restrictions played it's part but I also think he was struggling in large part because he was trying to do the things and play the game the way that Torts wanted him to play and a lot of that didn't come to him naturally, he had to think the game way too much. I think his effort is the reason he kept getting minutes even though he sucked. But he seemed to learn more about playing the D-side of the game during that year than he did in the previous 4 playing in WPG. I don't think Torts (or Laine) gets enough credit for that, I'm sure it wasn't all that enjoyable year of hockey for Laine but I also think this narrative of Torts & Laine "clashing" or whatever is completely bogus.
It's the low hanging fruit to create some drama between a hardass old school coach and supposedly lazy, soft, one dimensional "star winger". But I never heard Torts say a bad thing about Laine the player/person, his effort level to improve etc. and I seem to remember Laine singing praises about how Torts keeps everyone accountable and holds them to the same standard, no matter the contract or pedigree or position in the line up. And he's been asked plenty of questions about Torts since he left CBJ, the journos would love to find something there but he's never said anything but nice things about Tortorella. Was it a match made in heaven? I doubt it and you could say the results speak for themselves, but if you look that as a development year maybe we are reaping the fruits now. I'm not saying it was all St. Torts working his magic but he deserves some credit.
The fancy stats are not perfect and Laine was always quite effective (for the most part/most seasons) at playing winning 5v5 hockey relying on his insane shot and being really effective in the O-zone, but if you look at his complete game these days, it's way more... uhm, complete. Maybe another face palm there.
Wanted to buzz in to this gathering of psychologists just to point out that usually there are quarrels among team mates, just like in real life, and many times there is no one person to blame. People clash and misunderstandings happen. Usually it passes and people start to get along afterwards. If there really is a bad apple, it is noted and they don't give that person an extension.
As for the reasons Laine trying as a center, it seems to me that he just wanted to try it, being a curious person as he obviously is. Trying to paint him as a saint for helping the team sounds kinda funny to me.
Analyzing people and their motives is fun ain't it.
As for the reasons Laine trying as a center, it seems to me that he just wanted to try it, being a curious person as he obviously is. Trying to paint him as a saint for helping the team sounds kinda funny to me.
Analyzing people and their motives is fun ain't it.
^^ That being said, I too would love to know more about the Gudbranson-Laine incident. It was just brushed to the side after the fact pretty quickly. I'm inclined to believe that it's pretty much what was said above, a minor incident of some words and nothing indicative of any bigger issue, but it would be fun to know more details. Guess we'll have to wait 10+ years and hope somebody writes a tell-all book. 
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