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Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

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Forepar

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Xoggz22 said:
Not sure if you watched him play but he was the best player on the ice, most engaged he's maybe ever been and he requested to play there. That says something about character. I know a lot of you don't like him and I questioned why not KJ in lieu of Laine... however, 6'5" and skill. There is absolutely nothing to lose by doing this. i applaud him for apparently still being a team guy in a season of shit. He's been ridiculed for his gaming, his attitude, he's lazy, he doesn't get the game, isn't a good teammate... we've seen it all and this, at some level, dispels all of that if, maybe a big if, it's true that he offered to try when Kuraly went down. This is not "mickey mouse"... this is what teams do when there is literally nothing but experiment to work with. There is NOTHING to GAIN if you DON'T try it. Because you'll never know. I suppose you don't push your limits or put yourself in a difficult position in the effort to learn and grow? Stay the status quo... best way to be looked over and/or eliminated.

it's one game but, to me, he showed me something that I think most have never considered... heart and being a good teammate. Taking a risk like that says a lot about his commitment in my opinion.
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A. If this "experiment" is simply geared toward getting Laine to see the game from a different perspective and improve his skills as winger in the long run, then fine, so long as the experiment is limited to the remainder of this season and does not interfere with the development of KJ as a C and the search for the second elite C (draft, etc.) and so long as Laine is back at W come camp in September.

B. If this "experiment" has an inkling of Laine being a C for the future, then I agree with the "asinine" comment by Bus.

C. If this experiment has any inkling of drafting Michov over Bedard, Fantilli or Carlson, I will be exiting stage left.

I have no negativity toward Laine the player. I see improvement in his overall game. Those improvements, however, are in his game as a wing. Imo, there are things in his game that will not translate to him being a top-tier C in the long run. If he were struggling on the wing and the thought was to try anything to find his game (e.g. equivalent to the notion of moving Roslovic to wing), then maybe I'd have a different view. But that's not the case; Laine's been excellent as a W. In spite of the awful year for the team and in spite of Laine's early injuries, Laine is trending toward elite in that role. With signs that improvement will continue (trends, attitude and still young). But from an objective view, Laine might grow into being a competent, "average+" awkard looking C - but that's not the long range goal, is it? They need upper tier/elite Cs, and upper tier/elite Ws. Laine is/will be an upper tier/elite W; at best he will be a competent C. That may be better than what is in the lineup at C now, but that isn't good enough for the future - is it?

Laine to C also weakens what some perceive to be a strength of this team - its wingers. I don't see W as being overly strong if you remove Laine from that mix. IMO, CBJ has lots of depth (bottom 6) at W, but little in the way of upper-tier talent on the wing. The upper-tier talent on the W is limited to Gaudreau, Laine, and maybe Marchenko on the rise. The idea that Chinakov, Bemstrom, Foudy, etc. will become "upper-tier" talent is far-fetched based on performance/observation to date. Texier may be of help if he comes, but he's more "solid" than "upper tier" talent at this point. I suppose some argue that KJ becomes the A winger with Laine at C? No thanks, not when the goal is to get two A centers, when KJ's obvious skillset matches the need at C (he just needs to get physically stronger), and when Laine is approaching elite level at W.

Yes, the C position is a huge weak spot. The draft will tell us if we have Bedard or Fantilli, who along with a better-developed KJ will (or at least should) be competent, elite-talented, albeit but still developing, 1st and 2nd-line centers by the back half of next season. Or Carlson by the following season. Jenner/a redeveloped Sillinger as the 3rd line C and Kuraly handling the 4th line. That lineup at C, for the future, changes the perception of a weak spine relatively drastically. It probably doesn't mean PO for 2023-24 season, still too young, but constructing the lineup with a focus on the PO's for next season cannot be the plan (or is it and I'm just too dumb to realize it?). Whether its a re-tool, rebuiild, whatever, the plan should be for longer-term success, and if POs come early, then happy days for all. But that lineup at C sure would bode well for years after next season. And I realize that such a lineup is draft-dependent.

But Laine as a C to bridge the gap to the above, or as a solution if the draft doesn't result in a stud C, does nothing except keep ice time at the C position away from those that need additional experience in that position to develop (KJ primarily) and misguides management away from finding the C that is truly needed. Laine as a permanent C keeps us mediocre at best at the C, which means mediocre as a team overall. I get that some think Laine could become the next Kopitar given his frame; imo there is not even a remote chance of Laine becoming Kopitar. Not a chance. Not because he's a bad player, but because those aren't his innate skills. Thus, anything related to this experiment beyond the next 12 games to simply improve his game as a W is a horrible move and would show a focus on next season's record instead of on long-term growth/success. And it looks to me that there are better short- and long-term solutions with much higher likelihood of success in the works than Laine at C.

End of rant. Sorry for length.
 
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Xoggz22

Xoggz22

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Forepar said:
A. If this "experiment" is simply geared toward getting Laine to see the game from a different perspective and improve his skills as winger in the long run, then fine, so long as the experiment is limited to the remainder of this season and does not interfere with the development of KJ as a C and the search for the second elite C (draft, etc.) and so long as Laine is back at W come camp in September.

B. If this "experiment" has an inkling of Laine being a C for the future, then I agree with the "asinine" comment by Bus.

C. If this experiment has any inkling of drafting Michov over Bedard, Fantilli or Carlson, I will be exiting stage left.

I have no negativity toward Laine the player. I see improvement in his overall game. Those improvements, however, are in his game as a wing. Imo, there are things in his game that will not translate to him being a top-tier C in the long run. If he were struggling on the wing and the thought was to try anything to find his game (e.g. equivalent to the notion of moving Roslovic to wing), then maybe I'd have a different view. But that's not the case; Laine's been excellent as a W. In spite of the awful year for the team and in spite of Laine's early injuries, Laine is trending toward elite in that role. With signs that improvement will continue (trends, attitude and still young). But from an objective view, Laine might grow into being a competent, "average+" awkard looking C - but that's not the long range goal, is it? They need upper tier/elite Cs, and upper tier/elite Ws. Laine is/will be an upper tier/elite W; at best he will be a competent C. That may be better than what is in the lineup at C now, but that isn't good enough for the future - is it?

Laine to C also weakens what some perceive to be a strength of this team - its wingers. I don't see W as being overly strong if you remove Laine from that mix. IMO, CBJ has lots of depth (bottom 6) at W, but little in the way of upper-tier talent on the wing. The upper-tier talent on the W is limited to Gaudreau, Laine, and maybe Marchenko on the rise. The idea that Chinakov, Bemstrom, Foudy, etc. will become "upper-tier" talent is far-fetched based on performance/observation to date. Texier may be of help if he comes, but he's more "solid" than "upper tier" talent at this point. I suppose some argue that KJ becomes the A winger with Laine at C? No thanks, not when the goal is to get two A centers, when KJ's obvious skillset matches the need at C (he just needs to get physically stronger), and when Laine is approaching elite level at W.

Yes, the C position is a huge weak spot. The draft will tell us if we have Bedard or Fantilli, who along with a better-developed KJ will (or at least should) be competent, elite-talented, albeit but still developing, 1st and 2nd-line centers by the back half of next season. Or Carlson by the following season. Jenner/a redeveloped Sillinger as the 3rd line C and Kuraly handling the 4th line. That lineup at C, for the future, changes the perception of a weak spine relatively drastically. It probably doesn't mean PO for 2023-24 season, still too young, but constructing the lineup with a focus on the PO's for next season cannot be the plan (or is it and I'm just too dumb to realize it?). Whether its a re-tool, rebuiild, whatever, the plan should be for longer-term success, and if POs come early, then happy days for all. But that lineup at C sure would bode well for years after next season. And I realize that such a lineup is draft-dependent.

But Laine as a C to bridge the gap to the above, or as a solution if the draft doesn't result in a stud C, does nothing except keep ice time at the C position away from those that need additional experience in that position to develop (KJ primarily) and misguides management away from finding the C that is truly needed. Laine as a permanent C keeps us mediocre at best at the C, which means mediocre as a team overall. I get that some think Laine could become the next Kopitar given his frame; imo there is not even a remote chance of Laine becoming Kopitar. Not a chance. Not because he's a bad player, but because those aren't his innate skills. Thus, anything related to this experiment beyond the next 12 games to simply improve his game as a W is a horrible move and would show a focus on next season's record instead of on long-term growth/success. And it looks to me that there are better short- and long-term solutions with much higher likelihood of success in the works than Laine at C.

End of rant. Sorry for length.
Click to expand...
I didn't read it all because I think I got the gist early in your rant... Laine playing center has absolutely no, none, zip, zero, zilch, impact on draft strategy. The highest likelihood is we will be drafting top 4. Bedard, Fantilli and Carlsson are no brainers regardless of what the prospect pool, center pool, NHL pool or any other iteration looks like. I would include that if Michkov is #4 on the CBJ board, this has no impact on that either. Laine playing C or W also doesn't impact his value to the team. Could actually increase it. Gaudreau and Marchenko would clearly be top 6 wings and I would include KJ for the top 6 if he's not being moved to Center. Granted we've seen 2nd year struggles with others but whether it's Laine or KJ on the wing, they would be in the top 6 next year. I would only put Bedard in the top 6 but would prefer he be sheltered to start. Either way, what I'm ultimately saying is there is a lack of top 6 talent currently (But hopefully developing). Whether Laine actually sticks at C or on the W really doesn't impact much and won't change the draft strategy.

I'd love it if he were successful. A 24 year old 6'5" center that can and will shoot. Never had one of those. Also only has 3 years left on his deal. Right about the time this year's 1st is ready to really contribute so you can make a decision on what to do with him in the last year of his deal. My god what a haul if they chose to trade him as a 1C still in his prime... That would mean we're then pretty stacked at C. I just don't see any downside to doing this and he asked for the responsibility. I absolutely love that and don't think people put enough into that aspect. That's a team player and sets a great example.
 
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Viqsi

Viqsi

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Halberdier said:
No, we don't have. But some use those new English pronouns to somehow make it harder on social media, go figure. I don't get it, at all. I am maybe just too old.
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I wish I could say this doesn't surprise me...


As for the actual topic... if it works, it works, that's nice, woohoo. I'm skeptical of its long term effecacy, but crazy things sometimes happen like that. I don't see any reason to completely flip the f*** out over it and/or its "implications" or whatnot, but... well, let's just say that the fact that folks are doing so regardless also doesn't surprise me.
 
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NotCommitted

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Well let's be real here, Laine has never (as far as anyone can tell) played center before, so I find it extremely unlikely they suddenly decided to sink or swim with Laine as the future #1C :D He's done well so far, so who knows if he can keep that up and improve to a degree that he could play C as a legit center, but I don't for a second believe "Laine at center" is some kind of hill anyone is willing to die on, least of all the people who run the team. If it turns out he's legit better as a center, then of course you play him there and who at that point would complain?

Early results would suggest if he gets more experience, in the future he could probably at least fill in as a center in case of injuries or when you feel like a young center needs to spend some time at wing with less responsibility, or any number of scenarios where having an extra option helps. Let's say their legit #1C gets injured, I can easily imagine a situation where it could actually be best for the team overall to go 23draftee-Laine-Gaudreau as a 1st line and try to feed them as much o-zone time as possible and let Jenner/Kuraly/whoever handle the tough D-zone starts.

If the center experiment doesn't work out at all, what have you lost really? In my mind, even if he completely sucks from here on out, just having the two games and some fodder for the forums was worth it :)
 
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VT

VT

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The games in this month: Islanders, Montréal, Rangers, Boston. Except Montreal strong team, also except Boston the teams which need points, especially Isles. I think they will show his qualities as center minimum. Then we will know more. Now it's just a gifting of coffee.
 
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Marioesque

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I wish it was just a tank move but he wouldn't go along with it when testing out C position. Sucks.
 
BB88

BB88

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Laine all in on helping the team.

1st he’s ready to take in new challenge and then commits to helping Columbus secure a top3 pick.

In reality this is ….. in so many ways

stevo61 said:
He'll probably put in more work dedicated to center duties in the offseason also if he believes it has a future
Click to expand...

Atleast he works out with Barkov
 
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42k

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Marioesque

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VT said:
Something about "lazy" Patrik Laine... :sarcasm:

thehockeywriters.com

Blue Jackets' Laine Becoming Quiet Leader in Locker Room - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Columbus Blue Jackets star winger Patrik Laine has had an up and down season. But see why he's considered a quiet leader in the locker room.
thehockeywriters.com thehockeywriters.com
Click to expand...

It's really nice to see that there are people willing to break the false narrative. It's been getting super old since draft year. People who have watched him for long knew that the public image if Laine was often incorrect but it's been hard for him to shake. We have our examples of that on this board as well (edit: see below, like clockwork)
 
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thebus88

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Seriously, what do you expect the players to say?? They have to continually prop Laine up to keep him “happy” and “motivated”. People are ignoring/forgetting the issues that have been hinted at and could be seen on the ice earlier in the year.

Just like the Larsen/Laine bench incident, the organization like to keep everything as close as possible and play everything off like nothing is wrong. I believe the quote about there being a problem came from Larsen himself, yet everyone just played it off.

Literally nothing different than all other “mainstream media” where a writer with a clear agenda (personal or otherwise) writes an article to attempt to deliver a certain/selected narrative. An attempt to turn FAULTY perception into reality.

The entire thing is full of BOGUS rhetoric. Laine “propaganda”. An OPINION of a single person.
 
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wabagee

wabagee

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thebus88 said:
Seriously, what do you expect the players to say?? They have to continually prop Laine up to keep him “happy” and “motivated”. People are ignoring/forgetting the issues that have been hinted at and could be seen on the ice earlier in the year.

Just like the Larsen/Laine bench incident, the organization like to keep everything as close as possible and play everything off like nothing is wrong. I believe the quote about there being a problem came from Larsen himself, yet everyone just played it off.

Literally nothing different than all other “mainstream media” where a writer with a clear agenda (personal or otherwise) writes an article to attempt to deliver a certain/selected narrative. An attempt to turn FAULTY perception into reality.

The entire thing is full of BOGUS rhetoric. Laine “propaganda”. An OPINION of a single person.
Click to expand...
Don’t be to hard so yourself.
 
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