Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[majormajor]

This is what happens when a team is bad. We start flinging spaghetti against the wall, all the players are bad now.

When Gaudreau and Laine are on the ice they're not bad. They don't have a 1C between them and they frequently don't have any NHL caliber D out there with them. The team as a whole has no rhythm. But those two are still at least breaking even in chances and goals. So we can critique elements of their play but it's silly to connect their play to "this is why the Blue Jackets suck".

VT you are completely obsessed with both Laine and Bjorkstrand.

They are different players and bring different things. “Forechecking” and “playing the boards” is NOT what Bjorkstrand brought to the team. He was a GREAT shooter/goal scorer who ALSO did those things more consistently than many offensive players of the same quality/ability.

While Laine s a better pure shooter than most NHL players, he SIGNIFICANTLY LACKS SO MANY OTHER THINGS, whether in relation to Bjorkstrand, ACTUAL SUPERSTARS, or middling grinder 3rd-4th line guys.

Laine doesn’t do the things needed to play up to his “potential”. Like Roslovic, at some point, the “potential” should be seen as unattainable.

All some of you care about is fantasy stats. The record of SEA this year and the records of many “Bjorkstrand led”- PLAYOFF BOUND CBJ teams, is not a coincidence, as is the play and overall health of “Laine led” teams, as shown over MULTIPLE TEAMS.

Bjorkstrand's retrievals and board work were pretty remarkable though. He always has that to fall back on when the shooting luck ebbs. He just becomes a strong checking forward until the shooting comes back.

It's kind of like the Mitch Hedberg joke about escalators temporarily becoming stairs. They still work!

I don't think Laine brings that when he isn't scoring. He's not a big drag like he was in his first year as a Jacket but he's often not helpful either.

The point/joke is that I HATE all the IDIOTS who called all the guaranteed playoff CBJ teams (and HOW they played) MEDIOCRE year after year.

Congrats!!

Doesn’t get much more EXCITING than Tage Thompson!! Oh wait, other than Laine!!

I feel the same as you. We had a hardworking team that had a chance to beat almost any team and plenty of folks hated it and wanted to throw it away for fancy skill. The grass isn't greener.

I'm not against Bjorkie, I never considered trading him (well, only when I wanted to tease you and @majormajor ), what happened was quite an unpleasant shock for me. Also you know damn well that I was one of those who said his horrendous +/- meant nothing.
It's just that you keep failing to notice that Laine is improving in other aspects of the game. Besides he isn't only a sniper anymore but he's better in backchecking for example. I only used Bjorkie as an example of your selectivity.
Play-off?

I still don't think you get it with Bjorky if you think he's just going to be a third liner forever. Don't judge a guy when he is shooting at about 1/3 of his career percentages.

Laine has some great backchecks but he is still subpar on boardwork and retrievals. Could be probably use some lessons from Bjorkstrand.

I disagree with this premise.

The problem is that nobody is trading a higher-end C or D for a winger. Any winger. Especially if said winger is as one-way as you assert Laine is. And before you point out to how Laine got here to begin with - PLD was forcing his way out to the point of skipping shifts with effort so poor it made national news. 1) That's not happening again anytime soon and 2) even if it did I don't want that kind of player anywhere near this team and I don't think you do either.

Yeah we're not even getting a 2C for Laine. He isn't a movable property. Let's just hope he plays well and stops getting injured because he isn't going anywhere.

The problem is that the “timelines” do not fit with these guys and the vet’s currently on the roster. And we’ve already played the BS best case scenario with every prospect 5 year plan thing before.

At minimum these young guys are nearly a half decade away from being some “powerhouse” or playoff team. Johnson is going to be a top line guy, and Sillinger looks to be a good 2C. Chinakhov a top 6 winger. IN THE FUTURE. When that actually occurs, who knows.

On defense there is even more question marks. Jiricek/Mateychuk/Ceulemans may be no more than #3-4 D Men. Maybe top pairing. But when? This is assuming it’s quick enough where Werenski is still playing at a high enough level to be considered a #1.

Your out of your mind if you think Jenner/Gaudreau are just hanging around 3-4-5 years for all these young guys to POSSIBLY “blossom”.

We have assets. Again, we need a top 6 “veteran” center, and a RIGHT NOW top pairing defender. Things could be ADDED to Laine of actual value, not a Roslovic.

Even if they give up on this year and let everything play out terribly, this summer I think you see unexpected (to some) moves.


Is there some sort of limit on how many players you can add into a trade that I don’t know about??

A Laine+ package could be put together.

I think we're probably 2+ years away from being good again but it is really harder and harder to predict the further you go out. We really don't know what's going on five years from now. Who predicted three years ago that Jason Robertson and Tage Thomson would be top 4 in league scoring?

 

[stevo61]

This is what happens when a team is bad. We start flinging spaghetti against the wall, all the players are bad now.

When Gaudreau and Laine are on the ice they're not bad. They don't have a 1C between them and they frequently don't have any NHL caliber D out there with them. The team as a whole has no rhythm. But those two are still at least breaking even in chances and goals. So we can critique elements of their play but it's silly to connect their play to "this is why the Blue Jackets suck".




Bjorkstrand's retrievals and board work were pretty remarkable though. He always has that to fall back on when the shooting luck ebbs. He just becomes a strong checking forward until the shooting comes back.

It's kind of like the Mitch Hedberg joke about escalators temporarily becoming stairs. They still work!

I don't think Laine brings that when he isn't scoring. He's not a big drag like he was in his first year as a Jacket but he's often not helpful either.



I feel the same as you. We had a hardworking team that had a chance to beat almost any team and plenty of folks hated it and wanted to throw it away for fancy skill. The grass isn't greener.



I still don't think you get it with Bjorky if you think he's just going to be a third liner forever. Don't judge a guy when he is shooting at about 1/3 of his career percentages.

Laine has some great backchecks but he is still subpar on boardwork and retrievals. Could be probably use some lessons from Bjorkstrand.




Yeah we're not even getting a 2C for Laine. He isn't a movable property. Let's just hope he plays well and stops getting injured because he isn't going anywhere.



I think we're probably 2+ years away from being good again but it is really harder and harder to predict the further you go out. We really don't know what's going on five years from now. Who predicted three years ago that Jason Robertson and Tage Thomson would be top 4 in league scoring?

We had a chance to beat almost any team in the regular season, thats a big deal. Its fun to watch a hardworking team compete but we've had exactly 1 contender and it lasted 1 year. Elite skill is hard to find, atleast we have some of that in place and some exciting elements on D on the way.
Also as a sidenote, I love Bjorkstrand too but he doesnt really change much if you insert him of this team. Too many issues, too many injuries for a single player to fix. At best creates a safe line for a guy like Johnson to play between with Nyquist but you need a coach that is willing to try things like that.

 

[majormajor]

We had a chance to beat almost any team in the regular season, thats a big deal. Its fun to watch a hardworking team compete but we've had exactly 1 contender and it lasted 1 year. Elite skill is hard to find, atleast we have some of that in place and some exciting elements on D on the way.

Well Jarmo didn't draft elite skill at forward, so that's where I'd locate that problem, not with anything having to do with the players or coaches that we did have. The Blues were drafting in the same range we were and they landed Tage Thomson, Jordan Kyrou, and Robert Thomas. Put them on a hardworking well coached team and you can win it all.

Also as a sidenote, I love Bjorkstrand too but he doesnt really change much if you insert him of this team. Too many issues, too many injuries for a single player to fix. At best creates a safe line for a guy like Johnson to play between with Nyquist but you need a coach that is willing to try things like that.

You could put McDavid on this team and they'd still miss the playoffs comfortably, so what exactly are you saying here?

 

[Marioesque]

I’ve said plenty about Gaudreau. Some of you only care about Laine and everything has to be from his POV.

He’s been an issue also. Reality is that the combo is a problem and it’s something that I “predicted” or felt was possible, whereas the Laine fan club here was penciling Laine in for 65 goals and claiming the 1-2 punch was “unfair”.

The team only needs or will be successful with 1 of Laine/Gaudreau and it should be Gaudreau.

The team needs a center and a defenseman. Moves need to be made to make it happen. Bottom line.

Of course. The best players on the team have been the issue.

Not the historical injury frequency and length to core players, and the seriously lowered quality of roster.

It's the guys that have the best results against opponents that are the true problem. Without them winning their time on ice, we would have a better identity of lines that ALL fail to produce. Now those peacocks are just making the AHL crew look bad, that's bad for unity. They should start letting in more and scoring less, be team players and conform to the style of mediocrity by the bus

 

[tunnelvision]

Yeah we're not even getting a 2C for Laine. He isn't a movable property. Let's just hope he plays well and stops getting injured because he isn't going anywhere.

I'd say Laine will be "immovable" in the near future (from now through 2023-24), provided Jarmo doesn't get fired and Laine won't do a trade request. If owners decided to clean the front office for whatever reason, and the new staff were willing to drop asking price down from a top-6 C or any equivalent asset, then there would be a realistic chance I think.

Well Jarmo didn't draft elite skill at forward, so that's where I'd locate that problem, not with anything having to do with the players or coaches that we did have. The Blues were drafting in the same range we were and they landed Tage Thomson, Jordan Kyrou, and Robert Thomas. Put them on a hardworking well coached team and you can win it all.

I get that you're saying you can win it all with those talents but let's keep in mind none of them have been key pieces of a SC winner as yet.

 

[majormajor]

I'd say Laine will be "immovable" in the near future (from now through 2023-24), provided Jarmo doesn't get fired and Laine won't do a trade request. If owners decided to clean the front office for whatever reason, and the new staff were willing to drop asking price down from a top-6 C or any equivalent asset, then there would be a realistic chance I think.

I'd have no intention of moving Laine either way.

 

[tunnelvision]

I'd have no intention of moving Laine either way.

A lot can happen in the next 18 months. Wouldn't shock me if your opinion had changed by then.

 

[domi28]

Who predicted three years ago that Jason Robertson and Tage Thomson would be top 4 in league scoring?

Heck, who would have predicted three years ago that dmen would be a huge team need?

 

[LJ7]

Bjorkstrand's retrievals and board work were pretty remarkable though. He always has that to fall back on when the shooting luck ebbs. He just becomes a strong checking forward until the shooting comes back.

It's kind of like the Mitch Hedberg joke about escalators temporarily becoming stairs. They still work!

I don't think Laine brings that when he isn't scoring. He's not a big drag like he was in his first year as a Jacket but he's often not helpful either.

You should be proud of this very good way to put it.

To be precisely on topic though, Laine has been really encouraging to me all year. He's been scoring goals, and physically looks his best ever besides right when he came back from injury. I actually think he has a chance to be even better, and keep improving for a few years. I know players typically peak earlier than we all think statistically, but Laine being an exception to that is very on theme for him. He's certainly a unique athlete, compared to Roslovic for example who is an unquestionably excellent athlete especially in the context of hockey. Laine seems to be benefitting from specifically working on it though, and I can envision him building more and still getting tangible returns from "mastering" his own body/athleticism as he goes.

While I understand the concern about his late blooming and atypical athleticism, I'm tremendously enticed by the fact he's responding so well to his recent training. I think he's not athletically gifted in the traditional sense, but has made huge gains in that regard and has room to grow - in other words there is something there, he isn't just doomed. It's honestly exciting to witness.

 

[koteka]

It's kind of like the Mitch Hedberg joke about escalators temporarily becoming stairs. They still work!

The way this season is going someone needs to start a thread of favorite Stephen Wright, Emo Phillips, Dmitri Martin, and Mitch Hedberg jokes.

 

[NotCommitted]

This team has 28GF and 54GA 5v5 without either Laine or Gaudreau on ice, for a whopping 34% GF. Their xGF% without Laine or Gaudreau is 42.

For comparison Gaudreau on-ice for 53% both GF and xGF, Laine 55% GF and 51% xGF. They are having an impact, they are just not playing 60 minutes a night. About the last players I'd be looking at blaming. Maybe the problem is not the two guys who are actually outscoring the opposition (yeah, them and Bjork are the only ones who have done that, if you count only players with at least 100min TOI).

 

[NotCommitted]

I don't think Laine brings that when he isn't scoring. He's not a big drag like he was in his first year as a Jacket but he's often not helpful either.

It's hard to say with the injuries and I'm not proclaiming him the corsi king yet, but this might be changing and I'd argue this season this far he's usually been quite helpful even when not scoring. Small sample sizes and all that, but he seems to have a positive impact on underlying metrics for players playing with him.

Laine has some great backchecks but he is still subpar on boardwork and retrievals. Could be probably use some lessons from Bjorkstrand.

Maybe he's getting those lessons from Barkov instead It's early, but not sure subpar is true anymore for those things either. Time will tell, but I see a lot of encouraging things for the future in his play this season. I just hope stays healthy.

Btw. I think Torts and probably Larsen as well deserve some credit for the steps Laine has taken in his overall game.

 

[majormajor]

It's hard to say with the injuries and I'm not proclaiming him the corsi king yet, but this might be changing and I'd argue this season this far he's usually been quite helpful even when not scoring. Small sample sizes and all that, but he seems to have a positive impact on underlying metrics for players playing with him.



Maybe he's getting those lessons from Barkov instead It's early, but not sure subpar is true anymore for those things either. Time will tell, but I see a lot of encouraging things for the future in his play this season. I just hope stays healthy.

Btw. I think Torts and probably Larsen as well deserve some credit for the steps Laine has taken in his overall game.

Yeah Laine has had some terrific possession games lately. His retrievals with Chinakhov last night were excellent. I'll be ready to praise him if he keeps it up.

 

[Farmboy Patty]

Yeah Laine has had some terrific possession games lately. His retrievals with Chinakhov last night were excellent. I'll be ready to praise him if he keeps it up.

The developing Chinny-Laine combo is definitely something worth to keep going. The sooner Kenny get’s to center them, the better. Kenny’s ability to slow things down and draw players to him combined with his vision and passing skills might be dynamite with two shooters with serious goal scoring capability.

 

[LoveCBJ]

The man made of glass is out again? LOL Should have traded him last season.

 

[CBJx614]

The man made of glass is out again? LOL Should have traded him last season.

He's sick. How dare he get sick!

 

[NotCommitted]

It's frustrating though, he looked so good out the gate. If there's anything positive, at least the injuries this season have been new ones and hopefully random bad luck. Getting COVID is just icing on the cake. I hope he has a mild case.

 

[Fro]

The man made of glass is out again? LOL Should have traded him last season.

By all means jump to more conclusions

 

[stevo61]

By all means jump to more conclusions

Seems to be the way around here now. Most people talking based on emotion and leave logic out of it.

 

[thebus88]

What is the CBJ record with Laine??

Where does Laine rank (on the team or league wide) on those “point per cap dollar” charts I’ve seen in the past??

Fun fact: Boone Jenner has more goals and assists than Patrik Laine this year

By all means jump to more conclusions

Jump to conclusions??

Let me guess, 60 goals GUARANTEED ……just, uhh, NEXT YEAR!!

 

[Cowumbus]

What is the CBJ record with Laine??

Where does Laine rank (on the team or league wide) on those “point per cap dollar” charts I’ve seen in the past??

Fun fact: Boone Jenner has more goals and assists than Patrik Laine this year



Jump to conclusions??

Let me guess, 60 goals GUARANTEED ……just, uhh, NEXT YEAR!!

We pay him more than Crosby, Draisiitl, or Zibanejad. Kind of crazy to think about, especially considering he’s had issues staying healthy.

 

[Fro]

What is the CBJ record with Laine??

Where does Laine rank (on the team or league wide) on those “point per cap dollar” charts I’ve seen in the past??

Fun fact: Boone Jenner has more goals and assists than Patrik Laine this year



Jump to conclusions??

Let me guess, 60 goals GUARANTEED ……just, uhh, NEXT YEAR!!

Saying he's glass when it's covid? Yeah please be more ridiculous

Your comment has nothing to do with that one...save your BS

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

We pay him more than Crosby, Draisiitl, or Zibanejad. Kind of crazy to think about, especially considering he’s had issues staying healthy.

Comparing apples to oranges. Crosby and Drai signed their deal ages ago and Ziba's deal lasts till he is 36 y/o.

 

[thebus88]

Saying he's glass when it's covid? Yeah please be more ridiculous

Your comment has nothing to do with that one...save your BS

Covid-what?? 19-20-21-22?? Or what variant?? Runny nose? Does he need his “taste” intact to play hockey??

Seriously, how is “Covid” even being treated nowadays regarding the NHL?? Is he quarantined away from the team?? Do they still administer tests the second a guy experiences any “symptoms”?? How does one get “cleared” from “Covid”??

 

[Cowumbus]

Comparing apples to oranges. Crosby and Drai signed their deal ages ago and Ziba's deal lasts till he is 36 y/o.

Obviously.
Laine just doesn’t seem like an 8+ million dollar player.