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Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

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Bus, do you agree that Patty has looked better defensively this year compared to last (or 20-21, shudder the thought)? He's been more active and has backchecked better (he improved last year quite a bit).

Anyhow I just wanted to come post that Patty was a guest on Kimanttia podcast and let his inner humor fly off the wall (well as much as a pro sports player could without getting in trouble). In Finnish "sadly" - as good as Patty's English is these days, it's interviews like this that highlight how much of his humor is lost in English slash on English-speaking audiences. I'm not the biggest Patty fanboy so I don't know how this ranks to his prior interviews in Finnish (e.g. the Jets era), but to me it definitely sounded like he was the most relaxed and his own self compared to last year.

Outside of those humorous quips he talks about how Johnny has a completely different style to anybody he's ever played with (in a good way but also takes a bit longer to gel properly), and how his "best linemates you've ever played with" would be (himself+) Johnny, Bufyglien, Werenski, and wait for it - Roslovic as center. Very interesting I thought (he did admit it was slim pickings and he didn't enjoy playing with the centers in Winnipeg, which I guess we all know but he was pretty candid about it now).

Patty seems pretty fired up to play these games, he had a good Thursday practice (insofar as anybody did, wasn't that special to my inexperienced eyes). Korpi also looked good (enough). I hope Patty gets it going this weekend and fires up the team while doing so, we could use some positive feelings.
 
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thebus88 said:
The CBJ would be better off with Seth Jones (or a “decent” center) than either guy. I don’t care what all the other “experts” think.
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Ok so why not just say you prefer the gritty and busy looking, less talented, less of a deviation from the norm players?

I would rather you just use that statement than making it sound like something else. You prefer something else, that's fine. You don't have to justify or try to rationalize it when you just say it's your preference.

If you make it about "his play" or "attitude" as some people do, they're bound to get replies and rebuttals from people who watch him play and have an idea of what kind of person he is and what "attitude" he has. Nobody can argue with you if you just prefer a different player type. Someone who skates in a different form maybe.

I prefer winning games, and he is the type to help with that in my estimations. That's pretty much all that matters for hockey.

And as a person he comes off as genuine, honest, witty and funny (subjective of course, some do not like self deprecating humor). Defends teammates on ice, helps out kids, I think he is still with his high school sweetheart or something. Doesn't drink or do drugs. So I'm not sure if there is anything to hate there unless you hate like wholesomeness.
 
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Halberdier said:
GF% finally accounts all the things relevant to winning (it's the result), but obviously 3-10 games sample size is just laughable.

xGF% accounts all unblocked shots-on-goal so for sure it misses a lot of nuances and for example that Johnny's shot on Arizona goal pipes. However, if Laine has positive xGF%, that is really, really awesome as xGF generally is unfavourable to perimeter sharpshooters like Laine as that stat thinks Laine shoots like average NHLer.

Stats are not everything, but those two are among the best and most relevant there are, esp. GF%, as it simply tells whether you are winning your game or not, or "is your team scoring more goals than the opposite team when you are on ice" (5-on-5 as that's the only fair comparison as special teams, 3-on-3, 6-on-5 etc. are entirely different situations).
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Mark Scheifele said they don't care about similar stats, each team has their own statisticians who know exactly what to focus on. You also have to realize that players can have some non-hockey issues that affect their play.

BaconTurtle said:
Bus, do you agree that Patty has looked better defensively this year compared to last (or 20-21, shudder the thought)? He's been more active and has backchecked better (he improved last year quite a bit).

Anyhow I just wanted to come post that Patty was a guest on Kimanttia podcast and let his inner humor fly off the wall (well as much as a pro sports player could without getting in trouble). In Finnish "sadly" - as good as Patty's English is these days, it's interviews like this that highlight how much of his humor is lost in English slash on English-speaking audiences. I'm not the biggest Patty fanboy so I don't know how this ranks to his prior interviews in Finnish (e.g. the Jets era), but to me it definitely sounded like he was the most relaxed and his own self compared to last year.

Outside of those humorous quips he talks about how Johnny has a completely different style to anybody he's ever played with (in a good way but also takes a bit longer to gel properly), and how his "best linemates you've ever played with" would be (himself+) Johnny, Bufyglien, Werenski, and wait for it - Roslovic as center. Very interesting I thought (he did admit it was slim pickings and he didn't enjoy playing with the centers in Winnipeg, which I guess we all know but he was pretty candid about it now).

Patty seems pretty fired up to play these games, he had a good Thursday practice (insofar as anybody did, wasn't that special to my inexperienced eyes). Korpi also looked good (enough). I hope Patty gets it going this weekend and fires up the team while doing so, we could use some positive feelings.
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Roslo? It looks completely different on the ice. I still feel like Johnson would be the best for #13 and #29 both and not only Patrik.
 
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thebus88 said:
I’m not saying the CBJ would be a “better” team without Laine, even though it is possible, especially with Gaudreau now around.

What I am saying is the CBJ would be better off with essentially ANY other guy in the league with a similar cap hit, and many other guys making quite a bit less.

Laine would have been “perfect” for the CBJ 3+ years ago with Panarin around, and even before that, when we legitimately had a “plethora” of “two way” guys that WORKED HARD and yet lacked “scoring touches”. Not now that the team lacks hard working players. And to add, this idea that some of you guys are attempting to pass off as fact, that Laine is some changed “hard working/two way player” is BOGUS and bothersome.

Repeatedly saying he’s the “best” player on a terrible team as some sort of compliment is ridiculous. He’s literally paid to be the best player. Some of you seem to think that the CBJ has never been GOOD with “lesser skilled” players than Laine, and some of his current supporting cast.
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He was literally paid to be the 3rd best player last season, yet he was the best. Also this season he is paid to be the 3rd best player, and should be 2nd best after Johnny when everything is said and done even if he has been arguably better than Johnny this far.

You would take Kane, Toews, Seguin, Nurse, Skinner etc. over Laine? These guys have higher cap hit (some of them almost 2M more), and most of them are way past their prime, while Laine is entering his prime.
 
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VT said:
Mark Scheifele said they don't care about similar stats, each team has their own statisticians who know exactly what to focus on. You also have to realize that players can have some non-hockey issues that affect their play.
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I am aware that there are better, more accurate propiertary stats available than xGF%, which is still one of the best "virtual" stats publicly available. Also it's known that xGF model is kind of "broken" for guys like Scheifele and Laine that can normally do much better in real results when compared to expected goals.

However, I don't think Scheifele says he doesn't care whether they are winning their game on ice (actual GF%) or not, though some of the last seasons he has definitely and sadly sometimes looked like he doesn't even care anymore. That's the end result, period. That's not any kind of Corsi BS, but actual goals that happened. Yes, there are multiple factors why real results may vary, but in the end of the day (or rather: end of the season) you are either up or down on that stat, and that's how succesful you happened to be on ice. And yes, playing injured does make your results worse, playing always with bad players makes your results worse etc., such is life.
 
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BaconTurtle said:
Bus, do you agree that Patty has looked better defensively this year compared to last (or 20-21, shudder the thought)? He's been more active and has backchecked better (he improved last year quite a bit).
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If “sample size” of this year (injury or not) is used as an excuse for his offensive results to not be “questioned” or “attacked”, then I think the same excuse should be used in regards to not being able to make an accurate evaluation on his “defensive play”. I’ll be honest, I probably watched less CBJ games last year than I have in 10 years. How much that “limits” my opinion on Laine, is up to you. What I will say is, I saw enough, with Laine (or yes, Elvis) playing, essentially NEVER looked at them as even a playoff contender, and those guys playing such huge roles with what (IMO) they brought to the ice on a consistent basis is mostly what caused me NOT to watch. I don’t think simple back checks and stick lifts should be “praised”, they should be EXPECTED.

No, it’s NOT about just them, but the IMPACT, they have on the team cannot be denied, and you can’t be selective by giving them all this credit when the team wins or is playing well, and yet absolve them from guilt because of certain “statistics” or until is quite literally undeniable.

That’s to say, he’s still a winger and only played a handful of games. I haven’t been overly impressed with his “work ethic” over his time with the CBJ, at all. Forget Boone Jenner, he doesn’t have shit on a Rick Nash OR Artemi Panarin, on all different levels of “defensive” work.

He got hurt this year attempting to throw a body check. I noticed it, and I also noticed that I don’t think another person mentioned it, even though I literally expected at least 1 person to legitimately blame Torts for the situation by turning him into a “grinder”. Now, I can give Laine credit for trying, yet, at the same time I’m going to personally give more weight to the end result, which is a lack of effectiveness and literal failure.
 
thebus88, If you have thought Laine & Gaudreau look bad out there, I'm not sure what you're watching, at least you see it very differently than me.

To me your criticism of Laine as it comes to this current season reads like this:
"WE ARE PAYING THIS GUY A HUGE AMOUNT OF MONEY AND HE HAS A BAD SHOOTING PERCENTAGE THROUGH A 4 GAME STRETCH!!!"

Also you seem hung up on a single back check, which btw. to me was a nice play and credit where credit is due. That particular back check was at the end of a long shift and it was well played to get there in time and execute the play. It's also a matter of your role in a team and generally in hockey, history is full of offensive hockey players, some of them way better than Laine, who wouldn't even have tried and people don't care because those guys put in the numbers at the other end.

Regarding your opinion of Elvis, things are not black and white and players evolve and change, for better and also for worse, and their level of performance is different from season to season and night to night - it's just the better players perform at a higher level on average and are usually more consistent. Just because Elvis is playing like crap right now doesn't mean everything you said about him in the past was also true at the time :D

For the record I never thought your criticism of Elvis wasn't without foundation, I see some of the same things in his game. The "problem" to me in your opinions of players, Elvis included, is you seem to see players as either GOOD or BAD and nothing else and once a player gets put into one of those baskets, they stay there.
 
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Thought he was very good today. I want Laine to play like this (or a version of this) all the time. Not just in big games/home country games.

He was our best forward on the ice and helped lead the comeback attempt. Unfortunately, his over aggression also gave them the opportunity to take the lead and not look back. But I can live with these penalties when you're trying to make a difference.
 
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2 goals, 4 points in 8 games.

I think he and Johnny have been fine together. Not great, but they seem to spend some time in the OZ. So maybe I’m being critical, but we need more out of both of them. Laine needs to score
 
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CBJWerenski8 said:
2 goals, 4 points in 8 games.

I think he and Johnny have been fine together. Not great, but they seem to spend some time in the OZ. So maybe I’m being critical, but we need more out of both of them. Laine needs to score
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They've been absolutely dominant in some games and so-so in others, overall I think they've been good. But that's fair, they need to start putting them in, the sooner the better. Laine going for long without scoring much makes me feel uneasy, I haven't been worried but I will be soon. I'm concerned his overall game will regress if this keeps going on.
 
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NotCommitted said:
They've been absolutely dominant in some games and so-so in others, overall I think they've been good. But that's fair, they need to start putting them in, the sooner the better. Laine going for long without scoring much makes me feel uneasy, I haven't been worried but I will be soon. I'm concerned his overall game will regress if this keeps going on.
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He's gonna go off soon and keep rolling.
 
if only we were in the central facing the blues and stars more than twice a year.

laine’s career goal totals

against blues 16 goals, 17 games.
against the stars 19 goals, 26 games.
 
CBJWerenski8 said:
2 goals, 4 points in 8 games.

I think he and Johnny have been fine together. Not great, but they seem to spend some time in the OZ. So maybe I’m being critical, but we need more out of both of them. Laine needs to score
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When those two play together they “think they are McDavid and Daisaitl.” Not every pass needs to be sauced through 2 defenders, not every shot needs to be wired for the top corner, goals don’t have to be Sports Center top 10 worthy.

Seriously though, I think they need to simply their game a bit. IMO, we should explore breaking the two of them up, giving us two lines with the ability to score / create easier matchups for 1/2. That line might be the only one that sustains time in the Ozone though, so I get why Larsen is hesitant.
 
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Cowumbus said:
When those two play together they “think they are McDavid and Daisaitl.” Not every pass needs to be sauced through 2 defenders, not every shot needs to be wired for the top corner, goals don’t have to be Sports Center top 10 worthy.

Seriously though, I think they need to simply their game a bit. IMO, we should explore breaking the two of them up, giving us two lines with the ability to score / create easier matchups for 1/2. That line might be the only one that sustains time in the Ozone though, so I get why Larsen is hesitant.
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The advantage of Edmonton's players is that one always plays center. Gaudreau and Laine are wingers, connected by Jenner. Or remember Calgary and Elias Lindholm. The one who connects is very important.

Just from this season, the preseason pairing of Johnson - Laine had great chemistry. It seems to me that Nyquist played with them. Maybe it's time to try it again.
 
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