Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[OldGoaltender]

There is no way Laine will turn off chance to play with JG next 7 years, absolutely no way

Yep. When he was happy here with the current roster now throw in an elite talent setting him up. What’s not to like.

 

[Youngguns1380]

When do you think Laine will sign?

 

[tellermine]

Only problem is Laine staying healthy and on a level high enoughf.

Laine has shown he can be THE man but...

 

[VT]

To Laine. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that more than once his center of gravity is too low (most likely because of his long stick), which is one of the reasons why he doesn't win as many fights at the crease, and he also has his legs a little bent when he skates. But again I could be wrong, since I've only watched certain moments in the season I didn't focus on it.

 

[behemolari]

To Laine. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that more than once his center of gravity is too low (most likely because of his long stick), which is one of the reasons why he doesn't win as many fights at the crease, and he also has his legs a little bent when he skates. But again I could be wrong, since I've only watched certain moments in the season I didn't focus on it.

Yes everything is skewed on him he is like a walking picasso painting

 

[Ippenator]

To Laine. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that more than once his center of gravity is too low (most likely because of his long stick), which is one of the reasons why he doesn't win as many fights at the crease, and he also has his legs a little bent when he skates. But again I could be wrong, since I've only watched certain moments in the season I didn't focus on it.

His health problems are mostly with his core. His trainer from years ago (Hannu Rautala) said already then that there was some problems with his back that they needed to tackle gradually by strengthening his back muscles with specific training. The problems come from times that he was already a teenager. Unfortunately on the way there has come also some other core problems like the oblique problems that he had at least last season. He had also a quite nasty knee injury in 2014 and it was operated and the recovering took gradually almost a year. But after that at least he hasn’t had any knee problems to my knowledge. Anyway, his health is really the only thing that I’m worrying about him. Of course it’s not a small thing to worry about.

 

[VT]

His health problems are mostly with his core. His trainer from years ago (Hannu Rautala) said already then that there was some problems with his back that they needed to tackle gradually by strengthening his back muscles with specific training. The problems come from times that he was already a teenager. Unfortunately on the way there has come also some other core problems like the oblique problems that he had at least last season. He had also a quite nasty knee injury in 2014 and it was operated and the recovering took gradually almost a year. But after that at least he hasn’t had any knee problems to my knowledge. Anyway, his health is really the only thing that I’m worrying about him. Of course it’s not a small thing to worry about.

I have something else in mind. More than once I've noticed that he doesn't stand ideally at the boards, whereas he's shown that he can cover the puck very well and, when he stands up right, win battles at the boards. I still think, part of his problems is because of his skating system, although I'm not saying he's slow, which he's proven more than once. Other than that, he's not that explosive. On the other hand, as I said before, if he's right, he covers the puck very well, he can make a quick breakout pass that allows the team to go from DZ to OZ quickly, perfect passing, not to mention his shot. One more thing, why doesn't he use his forechecking more?

 

[Ippenator]

I have something else in mind. More than once I've noticed that he doesn't stand ideally at the boards, whereas he's shown that he can cover the puck very well and, when he stands up right, win battles at the boards. I still think, part of his problems is because of his skating system, although I'm not saying he's slow, which he's proven more than once. Other than that, he's not that explosive. On the other hand, as I said before, if he's right, he covers the puck very well, he can make a quick breakout pass that allows the team to go from DZ to OZ quickly, perfect passing, not to mention his shot. One more thing, why doesn't he use his forechecking more?

But I have pretty much understood from his and his trainer’s comments that those core problems have been in fact affecting his skating as well, not vice versa. The other problem is that he simply is not the type with a lot of fast twitch muscle cells in his legs.

Every person is born with a set amount of them. If you are unlucky and don’t have a bigger amount of them, you can only strengthen the ones that you have, but you can’t get more of them, even how much you train. Thus, I think the acceleration will always be at least a small problem for him. But it does seem to me that he has been able to at least gradually make it better. People just shouldn’t expect somekind of a massive change with it, when the problem is still pretty much genetic.

 

[VT]

But I have pretty much understood from his and his trainer’s comments that those core problems have been in fact affecting his skating as well, not vice versa. The other problems is that he simply is not the type with a lot of fast twitch muscle cells in his legs.

Every person is born with a set amount of them. If you are unlucky and don’t have a bigger amount of them, you can only strengthen the ones that you have, but you can’t get more of them, even how much you train. Thus, I think the acceleration will always be at least a small problem for him. But it does seem to me that he has been able to at least gradually make it better. People just shouldn’t expect somekind of a massive change with it, when the problems is still pretty much genetic.

I don't blame him for the acceleration as it depends on the type of muscles. Swimming, or running, are prime examples.

I understand that many of the problems are because of what you say. But there are special exercises for that, a physiotherapist is used. And I have a question. If the coach knew that, did he do a special training program for him? And if not, why not?

If he can't perform at his level regularly, due to physical issues, then he shouldn't have more than $9M.

 

[Ippenator]

I don't blame him for the acceleration as it depends on the type of muscles. Swimming, or running, are prime examples.

I understand that many of the problems are because of what you say. But there are special exercises for that, a physiotherapist is used. And I have a question. If the coach knew that, did he do a special training program for him? And if not, why not?

If he can't perform at his level regularly, due to physical issues, then he shouldn't have more than $9M.

It’s not that those problems haven’t been addressed and that they havent tried to fix them with all of those things that you mentioned now. But not everything that our body is built with can be completely fixed, or the fixing might take long and get done only gradually.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

When do you think Laine will sign?

This week. Before fridays deadline for the QO

 

[Halberdier]

He had also a quite nasty knee injury in 2014 and it was operated and the recovering took gradually almost a year. But after that at least he hasn’t had any knee problems to my knowledge.

Can't remember anything major knee-relates after that, but on WHC Corey Perry intentionally slew footed him, and while Laine was able to continue playing the tournament, if I remember it right, he had to use crutches for a moment.

 

[traffic cone]

This week. Before fridays deadline for the QO

But the Jackets should trade him, right? To give Bjorkstrand more ice time etc.

 

[Murky]

I am sorry to once more burst into your forum, it is just that I am such a fan boy. I hope you don't mind. I try to behave.

With what majormajor etc. have said in mind, I am starting to think that the obvious way forward is Laine accepting his QO. If he wouldn't get more than 8 anyway for long term, why not take 7.5 for one year? And try again next year, after playing hopefully well and benefitting from Gaudreau's presence and with UFA status, too? The cap is going up a lot in a few years so that 8 will not be much. Of course it's a gamble on his part but unlike some other posters I don't think it's much of a gamble at all, apart from injuries.

Of course it is not what both parties are looking for at the moment and I do think Laine genuinely wants to be in Columbus for a long time. But as things suddenly shook up in an extremely nice way with Gaudreau, it would give the team time to sort things out and of course a chance to make sure last year was a true return to form and not a fluke.

(Bear in mind that while I am a Laine fan boy I couldn't care less of how much he makes. In fact I hope he will be wise enough to keep things in check and rather he gets better team mates and environment than 1M more a year. He will be rich enough in the end, anyway.)

 

[Viqsi]

This week. Before fridays deadline for the QO

That would be nice.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I am sorry to once more burst into your forum, it is just that I am such a fan boy. I hope you don't mind. I try to behave.

With what majormajor etc. have said in mind, I am starting to think that the obvious way forward is Laine accepting his QO. If he wouldn't get more than 8 anyway for long term, why not take 7.5 for one year? And try again next year, after playing hopefully well and benefitting from Gaudreau's presence and with UFA status, too? The cap is going up a lot in a few years so that 8 will not be much. Of course it's a gamble on his part but unlike some other posters I don't think it's much of a gamble at all, apart from injuries.

Of course it is not what both parties are looking for at the moment and I do think Laine genuinely wants to be in Columbus for a long time. But as things suddenly shook up in an extremely nice way with Gaudreau, it would give the team time to sort things out and of course a chance to make sure last year was a true return to form and not a fluke.

(Bear in mind that while I am a Laine fan boy I couldn't care less of how much he makes. In fact I hope he will be wise enough to keep things in check and rather he gets better team mates and environment than 1M more a year. He will be rich enough in the end, anyway.)

If Laine accepts his QO, he will never get a chance to play with Gaudreau here because he’d be traded

 

[VT]

It’s not that those problems haven’t been addressed and that they havent tried to fix them with all of those things that you mentioned now. But not everything that our body is built with can be completely fixed, or the fixing might take long and get done only gradually.

That's the problem. When and if ever his body will be completely ready.

 

[Marioesque]

Jakes big contract will end in 2 years and relieves some cap woes. What stops them with Laine from doing a contract like first two years for 8, middle two years 9,5, last two years 10.5 or something. Cap will go up so it's easier to eat the cap in those later seasons and he'd get the value he wants long term. Underpaid today but compensated for in the future.

 

[DeeQ]

Jakes big contract will end in 2 years and relieves some cap woes. What stops them with Laine from doing a contract like first two years for 8, middle two years 9,5, last two years 10.5 or something. Cap will go up so it's easier to eat the cap in those later seasons and he'd get the value he wants long term.

It doesn't work like that. The cap hit is whatever he makes on the whole contract divided by years.

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

Jakes big contract will end in 2 years and relieves some cap woes. What stops them with Laine from doing a contract like first two years for 8, middle two years 9,5, last two years 10.5 or something. Cap will go up so it's easier to eat the cap in those later seasons and he'd get the value he wants long term. Underpaid today but compensated for in the future.

They likely will do something like that, but it won't help with the Cap. It's AAV- Average Annual Value.

 

[Marioesque]

It doesn't work like that. The cap hit is whatever he makes on the whole contract divided by years.

Gotcha, thank you. I was not sure.

 

[Xoggz22]

I am sorry to once more burst into your forum, it is just that I am such a fan boy. I hope you don't mind. I try to behave.

With what majormajor etc. have said in mind, I am starting to think that the obvious way forward is Laine accepting his QO. If he wouldn't get more than 8 anyway for long term, why not take 7.5 for one year? And try again next year, after playing hopefully well and benefitting from Gaudreau's presence and with UFA status, too? The cap is going up a lot in a few years so that 8 will not be much. Of course it's a gamble on his part but unlike some other posters I don't think it's much of a gamble at all, apart from injuries.

Of course it is not what both parties are looking for at the moment and I do think Laine genuinely wants to be in Columbus for a long time. But as things suddenly shook up in an extremely nice way with Gaudreau, it would give the team time to sort things out and of course a chance to make sure last year was a true return to form and not a fluke.

(Bear in mind that while I am a Laine fan boy I couldn't care less of how much he makes. In fact I hope he will be wise enough to keep things in check and rather he gets better team mates and environment than 1M more a year. He will be rich enough in the end, anyway.)

Then you accept the risk that you will not get more on the open market than what CBJ is presenting. Highly likely he's traded and not to a team he may be with long term. the Cap will remain flat for another 2 years. The proof you have for UFA signings is Gaudreau himself. His expected value was calculated as $13.8M AAV and he got nowhere close. I think Gaudreau has a better overall game than Laine so he's not getting more than $9.8 for starters (here or as a UFA). How many can afford him and who has the young team that can grow with him. Right now it would seem CBJ is his best option and the only way to stay here is on a longer term deal.

 

[AirSox]

I've shifted from happiness about Johnny Hockey to 100% focus on this guy getting extended. SIGN THE DAMN DOTTED LINE PATRIK!

 

[BB88]

I am sorry to once more burst into your forum, it is just that I am such a fan boy. I hope you don't mind. I try to behave.

With what majormajor etc. have said in mind, I am starting to think that the obvious way forward is Laine accepting his QO. If he wouldn't get more than 8 anyway for long term, why not take 7.5 for one year? And try again next year, after playing hopefully well and benefitting from Gaudreau's presence and with UFA status, too? The cap is going up a lot in a few years so that 8 will not be much. Of course it's a gamble on his part but unlike some other posters I don't think it's much of a gamble at all, apart from injuries.

Of course it is not what both parties are looking for at the moment and I do think Laine genuinely wants to be in Columbus for a long time. But as things suddenly shook up in an extremely nice way with Gaudreau, it would give the team time to sort things out and of course a chance to make sure last year was a true return to form and not a fluke.

(Bear in mind that while I am a Laine fan boy I couldn't care less of how much he makes. In fact I hope he will be wise enough to keep things in check and rather he gets better team mates and environment than 1M more a year. He will be rich enough in the end, anyway.)

2 things.

Laine wants stability, he hasn’t gotten a longterm deal yet in his career.

For Columbus Laine playing on a 1 year deal would be way way too risky.

 

[Ippenator]

That's the problem. When and if ever his body will be completely ready.

I totally agree. And that’s why I also think that it would be only fair if Laine took an under 9.0 m offer. Even that is a bit of a risk with his health issues so far, but on the other hand it will pay off big time for Columbus, if he gets his health issues fixed.