Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[thebus88]

What excuses?

Leaving out that I completely disagree with many of these opinions on his actual on-ice defensive awareness and effort level and focusing simply on the training/physical fitness aspect, you literally just said some wild shit about him being in good shape, just not in good shape for hockey, or that he worked out too hard on the wrong things in the off-season.

A few pages back somebody attempted to explain that Laine isn’t lazy, just that he isn’t effective defensively because of his lacking leg strength, while explaining that it has nothing to do with a lack of commitment to working out.

And he’s getting credit for working out with guys because they are really good NHL players…Maybe he needs to be working with more fitness experts/professionals if there are so many issues even as he is such a hard worker….

 

[thebus88]

CBJ Point per game players since 2016 (minimum 50 games) - Panarin, Laine

This post is a disservice and disrespectful to Panarin.

Is this just a round about way to say the team defense isnt good enough to prop Korpi up so it sucks?
The team got rid of a bunch of vets and got better, Id say thats positive

Some of you love to continue this shit and at the same time hypocritically attack people for defending themselves. Nobody is talking about Korpisalo, yet, Merzlikins does still suck, to be clear.

There is EXTREME bias involved if you have zero issues with Laine’s defensive impact.

There is even MORE bias if you have no issues with where the “team defense” is at or performed the last couple years.

Saying the team “got better” is absolutely ridiculous. Why are people ignoring what caused the CBJ to “get worse” for a year, and just HOW MANY GOALS were allowed last year. (with Merzlikins primarily in net)

 

[thebus88]

It sounded like the locker room got a lot more happier last year, Even with a less than stellar year. We’ve all heard how a few rooms are a disaster and even with great talent cannot win. From the players to the fans, Last season was pretty fun. If the morale is good and we see some improvement this year, The future looking bright.

Its funny what morale and confidence can do for a group. Add to the fact players dont look like they are playing scared to make a mistake anymore and its fun for everyone

Fascinating to me that last year is only looked at in relation to the terrible year before, yet the reasons for that year before are ignored.

We’ve had plenty of “loose” play at the end of “growth” years in the past that amounted to nothing.

Do you want players who want to have fun or win f***ing games??

Why don’t some of you ask captain Boone Jenner how “fun” last year was.

It seems many of you would rather have the team lead the league in goals than actually make the playoffs.

 

[DougKnowsBest]

We’ve made the playoffs as a low scoring, defensively sound team. It’s fools gold

 

[thebus88]

We’ve made the playoffs as a low scoring, defensively sound team. It’s fools gold

Players seemed like they were having fun too while they did it.

Not to mention the entire “Safe is Death” thing when the roster was built to COMPETE AND WIN while playing that way.

Instead of the current “fun” of losing games 6-4.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

This post is a disservice and disrespectful to Panarin.

Are you saying this isn’t a fact? Or that you don’t care about facts? Or that you’re going to make excuses for it despite it being a fact?

 

[thebus88]

Are you saying this isn’t a fact? Or that you don’t care about facts? Or that you’re going to make excuses for it despite it being a fact?

To be clear, my point was that it was an overly simplistic post that seems to take away from all the things Panarin did do for the CBJ that Laine does not do.

That said, you can make almost anything into a “statistic” and subsequently in many peoples minds, a “fact”.

But, sure, let’s look at the claim of “CBJ point per game player”….What are the stats??

101 games played, 36 goals , 41 assists, 77 points, -36

Hmmm…..what IS a “fact”??

Panarin put up a point per game his entire time on the CBJ, especially when it actually mattered, in the playoffs.

Again, there’s MUCH more to winning NHL hockey games than individual guys putting up points.

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

To be clear, my point was that it was an overly simplistic post that seems to take away from all the things Panarin did do for the CBJ that Laine does not do.

That said, you can make almost anything into a “statistic” and subsequently in many peoples minds, a “fact”.

But, sure, let’s look at the claim of “CBJ point per game player”….What are the stats??

101 games played, 36 goals , 41 assists, 77 points, -36

Hmmm…..what IS a “fact”??

Panarin put up a point per game his entire time on the CBJ, especially when it actually mattered, in the playoffs.

Again, there’s MUCH more to winning NHL hockey games than individual guys putting up points.

Shit! Now that you mention it, Panarin was really good. Maybe we should get him back?

 

[Youngguns1380]

To be clear, my point was that it was an overly simplistic post that seems to take away from all the things Panarin did do for the CBJ that Laine does not do.

That said, you can make almost anything into a “statistic” and subsequently in many peoples minds, a “fact”.

But, sure, let’s look at the claim of “CBJ point per game player”….What are the stats??

101 games played, 36 goals , 41 assists, 77 points, -36

Hmmm…..what IS a “fact”??

Panarin put up a point per game his entire time on the CBJ, especially when it actually mattered, in the playoffs.

Again, there’s MUCH more to winning NHL hockey games than individual guys putting up points.

What I have garnered is that you don’t like Laine or don’t prefer his style of play?

I am also guessing you think Laine contributed somehow to breaking up of the band so to speak? Torts, Jones, Atkinson etc?

If all these are true assumptions I understand the loyalty and admiration of the prior core. Unfortunately it sucks but things do change, while I am not asking you to spout sunshine and rainbows this is our future.

While, I don’t prefer Geekie, Kemell, Lambert, Lekkermaki. If they are chosen I will support the Team but probably won’t be posting much of anything about them, because I feel they are bad picks. If they turn out great awesome the Team wins and all of us fans win.

Just trying to say maybe its time to move on from the Old Core - with respect.

 

[Viqsi]

I was kind of wondering when the new Forbidden Player would be picked. I guess I shouldn't be surprised it was Laine. Any time any player starts to have any sort of reputation whatsoever independent of the team, some voices just seem to treat that as evidence of being inherently bad.

Do I think he's the best player we've got? No. Do I think he ultimately makes the team better? If he's playing like he did last year, that's an absurd question to ask - of course he does. Are there good team building strategies that don't involve him or someone like him? Absolutely. Does that mean we don't need him and/or should be quick to dispose of him? Absolutely not.

Adapt to what you have.

 

[VT]

To be clear, my point was that it was an overly simplistic post that seems to take away from all the things Panarin did do for the CBJ that Laine does not do.

That said, you can make almost anything into a “statistic” and subsequently in many peoples minds, a “fact”.

But, sure, let’s look at the claim of “CBJ point per game player”….What are the stats??

101 games played, 36 goals , 41 assists, 77 points, -36

Hmmm…..what IS a “fact”??

Panarin put up a point per game his entire time on the CBJ, especially when it actually mattered, in the playoffs.

Again, there’s MUCH more to winning NHL hockey games than individual guys putting up points.

I want to remind you that it was thanks to Laine that in late January, February and part of March we had a chance to play in the PO when he scored decisive goals, or ones that brought the team closer to the opponent. Same goes for the passes. Yes, when we lost chances to play in PO he wasn't as good and goals were scored by Bjork and especially Roslo. But where were they in the important games?

Eric Robinson and Sean Kuraly are better defensively. Eric is a dynamo with excellent transition. That said, are they more important to the team? Btw Laine improves in transition.

It's nice to run, but you also need to score goals, pass the puck the right way. Btw, speaking of Voracek, he has always played that style, and on a Czech website he directly said that he told Patrik to stop pass him, but to shoot. And Laine isn't blamed for Jakub's terrible shooting %.

It's funny with Patrick in general.

- Playing with Scheifele/Stastny/Aho... is dependent on a TOP center.
- Playing with Voracek and Jenner... is dependent on Voracek.
- Playing with Nyquist and Jenner... is dependent on Jenner and Nyquist.

I have a feeling that if he will play with Dunne and Myers, he'd be dependent on them for you and you'd write a long comment here about it.

Btw Matthews is playing with Marner... could you explain to me who is dependent on who? Also McDavid with Dreiseitl, MacKinnon with Landeskog, Rantanen with MacKinnon/Kadri, Kucherov with Point the season before last, not to mention the Gaudreau -- Lindholm -- M. Tkachuk line. Can you tell me it? Or does it only apply to Laine?

 

[CBJx614]

I was kind of wondering when the new Forbidden Player would be picked. I guess I shouldn't be surprised it was Laine. Any time any player starts to have any sort of reputation whatsoever independent of the team, some voices just seem to treat that as evidence of being inherently bad.

Do I think he's the best player we've got? No. Do I think he ultimately makes the team better? If he's playing like he did last year, that's an absurd question to ask - of course he does. Are there good team building strategies that don't involve him or someone like him? Absolutely. Does that mean we don't need him and/or should be quick to dispose of him? Absolutely not.

Adapt to what you have.

We really need to get him going next year, obviously we want to get his game going and play well rounded but we also need him to engage that killer instinct next season. If I'm Larsen I'm telling him to start channeling his inner Ovie.

We need to be setting him up for those one timers around the left circle as often as possible. He's like Ovie in that regard, the whole league knows what he's going to do but it doesn't matter. He's still gonna find a way to sink back into the empty area and find space to let it rip. He only needs a 2-3 chances/game and at least one is going to go in because his shot is that good.

 

[Hello Johnny]

What I have garnered is that you don’t like Laine or don’t prefer his style of play?

I am also guessing you think Laine contributed somehow to breaking up of the band so to speak? Torts, Jones, Atkinson etc?

If all these are true assumptions I understand the loyalty and admiration of the prior core. Unfortunately it sucks but things do change, while I am not asking you to spout sunshine and rainbows this is our future.

While, I don’t prefer Geekie, Kemell, Lambert, Lekkermaki. If they are chosen I will support the Team but probably won’t be posting much of anything about them, because I feel they are bad picks. If they turn out great awesome the Team wins and all of us fans win.

Just trying to say maybe its time to move on from the Old Core - with respect.

Hear, hear!

 

[BB88]

Leaving out that I completely disagree with many of these opinions on his actual on-ice defensive awareness and effort level and focusing simply on the training/physical fitness aspect, you literally just said some wild shit about him being in good shape, just not in good shape for hockey, or that he worked out too hard on the wrong things in the off-season.

A few pages back somebody attempted to explain that Laine isn’t lazy, just that he isn’t effective defensively because of his lacking leg strength, while explaining that it has nothing to do with a lack of commitment to working out.

And he’s getting credit for working out with guys because they are really good NHL players…Maybe he needs to be working with more fitness experts/professionals if there are so many issues even as he is such a hard worker….

I’ve followed this before he was even being drafted and I’m on record for being against that type of training in 2016 already.
This isn’t just something new.

I’m basing it on people I know, all the articles, all the videos, all the interviews post 2015.

I’m not trying to defend his defensive game but if someone says he’s not working like hell in the offseasons I have a big issue against that.

Again I know places he trains, the gym he goes to, people he trains with.

& you should be happy that he’s with Barkov these days.
He’s doing a lot of mobility training with an expert in Tampere & versatile training while spending time on ice.
He was in great shape last camp but he got injured early on.
Covid has cut offseasons short and things haven’t been normal so we are going to need couple of offseasons to see real results& I’d be hugely surprised if Laine wasn’t in the best shape of his life come september.
Thanks to the support group he now has in Barkov and Ville Nieminen.


The problematic offseason training was in Turku when he was training with legendary coach Rautala, with a big group of other players.
But the training wasn’t build around Laine and Laines needs, it was all hardcore off ice training with zero skating.
Laines biggest weakness and thing that’s keeping him from reaching his full potential is skating.
How can you develop your skating if you’re not skating at all and are doing only heavy off ice training or how can you be in skating shape if you haven’t been properly skating for 5 months and have done heavy off ice training?

& Laine isn’t the only one you can see that, Kakko trains or trained there at the same time and guess what? Similar issues have been raised every year he’s been in the NHL.


I’ll tell you watch out in september, I just wish he went to Barkov earlier to fix his skating, Barkov hired himself a figure skating coach and turned his bad skating into a strenght

 

[thebus88]

What I have garnered is that you don’t like Laine or don’t prefer his style of play?

I am also guessing you think Laine contributed somehow to breaking up of the band so to speak? Torts, Jones, Atkinson etc?

If all these are true assumptions I understand the loyalty and admiration of the prior core. Unfortunately it sucks but things do change, while I am not asking you to spout sunshine and rainbows this is our future.

While, I don’t prefer Geekie, Kemell, Lambert, Lekkermaki. If they are chosen I will support the Team but probably won’t be posting much of anything about them, because I feel they are bad picks. If they turn out great awesome the Team wins and all of us fans win.

Just trying to say maybe its time to move on from the Old Core - with respect.

All I want to add is that people have had PLENTY of issues and complaints in the past regarding the decisions behind committing long term to certain players (Nash/Jones etc) and/or building behind certain cores (Foligno/Dubinsky/Atkinson/Jenner) of players.

Why is Laine (and the current “dysfunctional core”) immune to these same questions and complaints??

 

[thebus88]

We really need to get him going next year, obviously we want to get his game going and play well rounded but we also need him to engage that killer instinct next season. If I'm Larsen I'm telling him to start channeling his inner Ovie.

We need to be setting him up for those one timers around the left circle as often as possible. He's like Ovie in that regard, the whole league knows what he's going to do but it doesn't matter. He's still gonna find a way to sink back into the empty area and find space to let it rip. He only needs a 2-3 chances/game and at least one is going to go in because his shot is that good.

He needs to get HIMSELF going.

Also, what needs to be “engaged” within Laine is all the OTHER things Ovechkin brings to the ice OTHER than the 1 timer.

While Ovechkin has almost always brought an intensity to the ice that Laine seemingly can only dream of, he has had plenty of DESERVED complaints in the past about his overly offensive style and lack of defensive commitment.

There’s a reason WAS didn’t win shit until Ovechkin matured and adapted his game.

 

[Viqsi]

All I want to add is that people have had PLENTY of issues and complaints in the past regarding the decisions behind committing long term to certain players (Nash/Jones etc) and/or building behind certain cores (Foligno/Dubinsky/Atkinson/Jenner) of players.

Why is Laine (and the current “dysfunctional core”) immune to these same questions and complaints??

Probably for the same reasons those other guys were immune.

 

[VT]

Are we talking about last season or the 2020/21 season? Besides, neither Torts nor Lars have complained about his attitude. Only Foligno on the Marc Methot podcast said he is a very good player, just needs to improve his approach, but otherwise he thinks he will survive in Torts system.

Btw, no one is disputing that he has flaws that need to be worked on, I've already posted them so I don't want to. At least I hope that's the case. Because being uncritical is the worst.

The question 1: Who is more important to Tampa, Palat with his excellent two-way play, ability to score important goals, Cirelli with his excellent forchecking, speed, play in defense, without the puck, quite good skill or Kucherov who is excellent in offense, he has great skill but his his defense, play without the puck aren't too good?

The question 2: Why I haven't seen to say anything about Bjorkie's -35 +/- from you? For example my critique has been minimal but you hasn' said anything. I think it's unfair from you.

 

[LJ7]

Why is Laine (and the current “dysfunctional core”) immune to these same questions and complaints??

I don't agree with this framing. I see people that think Laine is a better player than you think he is, but not him being "immune" to critiques. Now sure he has some huge fans that say "blank check", "pay him 11 million! Whatever it takes", etc but those are typically less serious casuals you'll see on reddit or something. He had plenty of critics in 20-21 and him playing really well in 21-22 changed people's minds.

You raise good points whether I agree or not and you do (usually) drive discussion on here but the "I'm the only one who has the balls to say this!" angle you always take usually doesn't apply and it detracts from your actual stances.

Also about the current core it's kinda hard to critique it now since the core one would critique will be so drastically different maybe in 48 hours let alone by training camp. Can't really knock the direction of the team yet since it hasn't really been decided.

 

[thebus88]

I want to remind you that it was thanks to Laine that in late January, February and part of March we had a chance to play in the PO when he scored decisive goals, or ones that brought the team closer to the opponent. Same goes for the passes. Yes, when we lost chances to play in PO he wasn't as good and goals were scored by Bjork and especially Roslo. But where were they in the important games?

Eric Robinson and Sean Kuraly are better defensively. Eric is a dynamo with excellent transition. That said, are they more important to the team? Btw Laine improves in transition.

It's nice to run, but you also need to score goals, pass the puck the right way. Btw, speaking of Voracek, he has always played that style, and on a Czech website he directly said that he told Patrik to stop pass him, but to shoot. And Laine isn't blamed for Jakub's terrible shooting %.

It's funny with Patrick in general.

- Playing with Scheifele/Stastny/Aho... is dependent on a TOP center.
- Playing with Voracek and Jenner... is dependent on Voracek.
- Playing with Nyquist and Jenner... is dependent on Jenner and Nyquist.

I have a feeling that if he will play with Dunne and Myers, he'd be dependent on them for you and you'd write a long comment here about it.

Btw Matthews is playing with Marner... could you explain to me who is dependent on who? Also McDavid with Dreiseitl, MacKinnon with Landeskog, Rantanen with MacKinnon/Kadri, Kucherov with Point the season before last, not to mention the Gaudreau -- Lindholm -- M. Tkachuk line. Can you tell me it? Or does it only apply to Laine?

Again, you seem to think all that matters is Laine scoring goals, and that nobody has an impact on him scoring, yet he helps everyone else score?? He gets credit for literally every positive aspect of the team (and “potential” he hasn’t reached) and is excused for every negative aspect he could possibly bring?? Nobody scores points and wins games ALONE, however there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in impact certain guys have on their teammates and making their team better.

I get it, some of you have only seen the CBJ (and Bjorkstrand) play games with Laine, but the difference in the way the team plays now and the different impact a guy like Panarin has on the ice over Laine is monumental. Getting paid the amount Laine apparently deserves to get paid, a team shouldn’t have an issue finding players that will work with you on the ice, yet, that’s absolutely the case with Laine.

While Jenner is attacked for being the player he is, and is seen as holding Laine back offensively, the reality is that he is there COVERING for Laine to make the line adequate. Is it Jenners fault (or Patty’s) that no other center can cover for Laine’s deficiencies?? I could argue that both Nyquist and Voracek are being “forced” into a certain role attempting to mesh or work with Laine, also, and that both guys over long stretches seem to not work well with him. Not to mention, their ages and most peoples opinions on their future with the team. Are we to spend the next years trying to find players that will “fit” with Laine??

I have had issues with players in the past being “above” the team, and it seems that’s what Patrick Laine epitomizes as a hockey player. Both in his and his fans/defenders minds. To be clear, I haven’t really followed him AT ALL before his time with the CBJ.

The team was nowhere near being an actual playoff team at any time. I’m not gonna go into it because it’s been beat to death the last few years before Laine, but, that team last year would have been an ACTUAL “bubble team” with no possible way to actually win a playoff series. People downplay how JUST how BAD defensively the team (and of course Elvis) was and how MANY goals they allowed. Even though he is just 1 guy, Laine WAS and IS a main culprit, and in turn is NOT somebody the team/younger players or coach can look to as a “leader” or good example into what they need to change into.

I love the range of comparable names. Who’s taking about Robinson and Kuraly?? Frankly, 2 more guys that are (ironically due to their 2 way games) overrated by CBJ fans that I don’t necessarily see as needed. Foudy trumps Robinson in all ways, and Kuraly is not “good enough” offensively OR defensively (think he’s overrated here) for my liking, I’m much more “meh” on him than many other CBJ fans seem to be.

From them to a bunch of All Stars who also mostly bring much more to a team than Laine does. All different types of players that bring many different aspects to a team than Laine does. That said, relevant to my opinion on Laine being in Columbus, is that I think he needs to play behind a “big market”/ cap limit team loaded with other good players, in order for him to be effective or help a team actually win meaningful games.

That’s not the Columbus Blue Jackets of today and probably not anytime in the near future. If anything Laine would have worked on the team that was loaded up with Panarin/Duchene/Jones/Werenski along with having Foligno/Jenner/Dubinsky still around, I don’t see it moving forward with him as “the guy” offensively.

 

[thebus88]

Probably for the same reasons those other guys were immune.

The Redundanteers weren’t immune to any BS “hate” thrown their way while leading the team to many wins, playing arguably the most responsible and respected style of play in the entire league, that has been reported as instrumental in the recent TB multiple time Cup champion team to make changes in how they play on the ice.

I’ll make sure Lazy Laine gets the respect he deserves.

 

[Viqsi]

The Redundanteers weren’t immune

Exactly my point.

I get the feeling you're presuming there's One True Way to construct a winning hockey team, and that has just never been so. There may be preferred ways that some of us would rather watch, but that's not the same thing.

 

[VT]

Again, you seem to think all that matters is Laine scoring goals, and that nobody has an impact on him scoring, yet he helps everyone else score?? He gets credit for literally every positive aspect of the team (and “potential” he hasn’t reached) and is excused for every negative aspect he could possibly bring?? Nobody scores points and wins games ALONE, however there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE in impact certain guys have on their teammates and making their team better.

I get it, some of you have only seen the CBJ (and Bjorkstrand) play games with Laine, but the difference in the way the team plays now and the different impact a guy like Panarin has on the ice over Laine is monumental. Getting paid the amount Laine apparently deserves to get paid, a team shouldn’t have an issue finding players that will work with you on the ice, yet, that’s absolutely the case with Laine.

While Jenner is attacked for being the player he is, and is seen as holding Laine back offensively, the reality is that he is there COVERING for Laine to make the line adequate. Is it Jenners fault (or Patty’s) that no other center can cover for Laine’s deficiencies?? I could argue that both Nyquist and Voracek are being “forced” into a certain role attempting to mesh or work with Laine, also, and that both guys over long stretches seem to not work well with him. Not to mention, their ages and most peoples opinions on their future with the team. Are we to spend the next years trying to find players that will “fit” with Laine??

I have had issues with players in the past being “above” the team, and it seems that’s what Patrick Laine epitomizes as a hockey player. Both in his and his fans/defenders minds. To be clear, I haven’t really followed him AT ALL before his time with the CBJ.

The team was nowhere near being an actual playoff team at any time. I’m not gonna go into it because it’s been beat to death the last few years before Laine, but, that team last year would have been an ACTUAL “bubble team” with no possible way to actually win a playoff series. People downplay how JUST how BAD defensively the team (and of course Elvis) was and how MANY goals they allowed. Even though he is just 1 guy, Laine WAS and IS a main culprit, and in turn is NOT somebody the team/younger players or coach can look to as a “leader” or good example into what they need to change into.

I love the range of comparable names. Who’s taking about Robinson and Kuraly?? Frankly, 2 more guys that are (ironically due to their 2 way games) overrated by CBJ fans that I don’t necessarily see as needed. Foudy trumps Robinson in all ways, and Kuraly is not “good enough” offensively OR defensively (think he’s overrated here) for my liking, I’m much more “meh” on him than many other CBJ fans seem to be.

From them to a bunch of All Stars who also mostly bring much more to a team than Laine does. All different types of players that bring many different aspects to a team than Laine does. That said, relevant to my opinion on Laine being in Columbus, is that I think he needs to play behind a “big market”/ cap limit team loaded with other good players, in order for him to be effective or help a team actually win meaningful games.

That’s not the Columbus Blue Jackets of today and probably not anytime in the near future. If anything Laine would have worked on the team that was loaded up with Panarin/Duchene/Jones/Werenski along with having Foligno/Jenner/Dubinsky still around, I don’t see it moving forward with him as “the guy” offensively.

Again. Voracek wanted so that Laine shoots and not pass him back. Nyquist didn't change his play with Laine.

Translate Voracek's words: MS? Zatím není jasno, říká Voráček. A mluví o odchodu z Flyers nebo ruské invazi | Hokej.cz - web českého hokeje

There was a lot of talk before the season that you could sit down with Patrik Laine - he's a scorer, you're more of a playmaker. How do you get along? Sometimes people say he has a bit of a complicated nature.
People say that, but we have an excellent relationship. I think it shows on the ice. I don't know how many shots he had today, but when he scores there, he scores (it isn't ideal translate but I don't know English words for it). The first ten, fifteen games before he got hurt, maybe he was trying to pass too much. The amount of times he could've shot, he was in a position to shoot, and he was making things up for nothing. Then when he came back, I told him not to pass me bac but try to shoot as much as possible. Now he's doing that and he's getting over a point a game. He's a really good hockey player. It's a lot about confidence for him, if he believes in himself, he's unstoppable.

I'm sorry, but I thought you understand that Laine doesn't play/arrive himself into the OZ, then pass himself to score.

I agree, Foudy is underrated, I has said about it and if you noticed I even think to put him to Laine and Jenner. I remember when he played with Patrik in the 2020/21 season they have very good chemistry. It was only one game but it was. I know a lot of people say it's stupidity but I say Nyquist and Jenner can be ideal for Laine before their the first game together. I was right. Maybe doesn't have such skill but his speed is unreal and he isn't such bad in offense. And I would try him to play center. For example Jenner -- Foudy -- Laine.

Sorry I only write about Laine but it's the thread about him.

 

[thebus88]

Are we talking about last season or the 2020/21 season? Besides, neither Torts nor Lars have complained about his attitude. Only Foligno on the Marc Methot podcast said he is a very good player, just needs to improve his approach, but otherwise he thinks he will survive in Torts system.

Btw, no one is disputing that he has flaws that need to be worked on, I've already posted them so I don't want to. At least I hope that's the case. Because being uncritical is the worst.

The question 1: Who is more important to Tampa, Palat with his excellent two-way play, ability to score important goals, Cirelli with his excellent forchecking, speed, play in defense, without the puck, quite good skill or Kucherov who is excellent in offense, he has great skill but his his defense, play without the puck aren't too good?

The question 2: Why I haven't seen to say anything about Bjorkie's -35 +/- from you? For example my critique has been minimal but you hasn' said anything. I think it's unfair from you.

Both seasons. Being better than absolutely terrible is still not good and shouldn’t be seen as favorable. Individual points scored and statistics mean nothing to me.

The comment, “Torts nor Larsen have complained about his attitude”, is ridiculous. To who, the media??

Reality is you can’t say anything at all that could be perceived as “negative” about Laine in any way, without him pouting and handling it in the wrong way.

Patrik Laine 'a little annoyed' by Blue Jackets coach Brad Larsen comments

What do you think about the back and forth with Larsen on the bench and WHY it happened?? Or since it’s in the past, just forget about it??

Also regarding teammates comments on Laine, 1st it was just Del Zotto, then Atkinson, now Foligno. Again, these are all ON RECORD, just imagine what other guys think privately. That’s where I don’t think the “openness” of Del Zotto’s quick comment should be simply brushed off.

Your continued comments/jabs of Bjorkstrand are not unnoticed.

The difference between the guys is that Bjorkstrand has proven over his entire time in the CBJ organization that he will and can put in the HARD WORK and PRODUCE over long stretches and when the games are ACTUALLY important, in the playoffs or during stretches that the team ACTUALLY MADE the playoffs.

 

[thebus88]

Exactly my point.

I get the feeling you're presuming there's One True Way to construct a winning hockey team, and that has just never been so. There may be preferred ways that some of us would rather watch, but that's not the same thing.

There is one true way and it’s very simple. You must focus on defense as much as you do on offense. Goals against are just as valuable and worth the same as goals forward.

Some of us who have played the game their entire lives are not “excited” or “enjoy” high scoring games just for the sake of the goals, in ANY way.

It’s about WINNING.

How exactly are we making the case that “Laine’s style” of play is the way to “construct a winning hockey team” over a defensively responsible “Torts style”, that has been proven to work over numerous years??