Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[VT]

Werenski’s second contract was 3 years for $15 million. He is now on his third contract. Makar and Fox signed huge second contracts.

A better comparison is to combine Werenski’s two contracts which total $72.5 million for 9 years - averaging out to just over $8 million per season, lower than Makar and Fox.

Yes, but compare Werenski's play and Makar's play. It's more important.

 

[koteka]

Yes, but compare Werenski's play and Makar's play. It's more important.

Makar is better. He received a much better 2nd contract than Werenski. I don’t know why that would cause any problems with anyone else.

 

[majormajor]

Cale Makar $9.0M
Adam Fox $9.5M

How can Jarmo want from players to lower their demands if Werenski didn't do it?

If Makar was on the open market as UFA he'd be making closer to $15m today. Fox probably around $11m somewhere. Part of it is them giving some discounts to good teams and part of it is that they were just coming off their ELCs and only giving up RFA years.

Those guys are way better than Werenski and also way better than Laine, so I'm not sure how it factors in at all.

 

[VT]

Makar is better. He received a much better 2nd contract than Werenski. I don’t know why that would cause any problems with anyone else.

I think every contract should be according player's play. Makar has been better in Werenski's year.

If Makar was on the open market as UFA he'd be making closer to $15m today. Fox probably around $11m somewhere. Part of it is them giving some discounts to good teams and part of it is that they were just coming off their ELCs and only giving up RFA years.

Those guys are way better than Werenski and also way better than Laine, so I'm not sure how it factors in at all.

We don't say about Laine (I wrote his contract should be about $8.8M - only because of the market) but about Werenski. And I think his contract is too much.

 

[thebus88]

And if I'm Laine and consider your guidelines, then I would say Columbus is not really a good team (yet) and I put up PPG numbers with two significant disruptions to the season and a revolving door at center. Imagine what I can do on a good team. My numbers would be expected to be higher, therefore, I think I should be paid more in line with what I will be when Columbus IS a good team. He's not getting $8.5 on a good team. He's still getting above $9AAV.

Leaving out the impact that Laine’s high cap hit or him playing “big” or “important” minutes has on a team actually BEING a “good team”, and that the CBJ WERE a “good team” before he showed up, this idea that his offensive numbers will likely increase (or is even what’s NEEDED or what should be wanted) is false.

Why he gets a pass for his 1st CBJ season (20-21) and his impact on the disaster of that year is beyond me.

That said, last year, offense was not the problem for Laine or the team. The team was 14th in the league in GF and they were much closer to the top-10 than they were the bottom 10. With INCREASED effort and consistency (not holding my breathe, are you?) Laine probably could increase his offensive production, but, looking at the teams overall offensive production and the offensive skill of his teammates ISN’T where you should be looking for the increase to come from.

The fact that most of the CBJ games last year we’re essentially “meaningless” (many times to the opposing teams also) should also be taken into account when looking at this “PPG season”, IMO.

The problem is how many goals against the team allows, with Laine on and off of the ice. This idea that some are attempting to pass off as truth, that Laine is NOT an absolute detriment defensively, IS FALSE!!

Not only that, but, look at the COMPLETE OPPOSITE impact Laine has on the team than a guy like Panarin. Panarin nearly made any and every guy more effective on the ice and put up offensive numbers, WHILE PLAYING A RESPONSIBLE GAME, while guys sit here continuously making excuses for Superstar Laine, that the team and other players aren’t good enough for him to reach his truuu potential.

The CBJ need Laine to be MUCH MORE IMPACTFUL when he is not scoring goals. This idea that he is setting up guys left and right, and they aren’t finishing chances, is ANOTHER bogus idea some are attempting to pass off.

I hope for a trade at the draft. People had issues building behind Nash and the Jones teams and attacked them mercilessly for “bad play”, yet here we are with so many ‘ok’ with what Laine brings to the ice, as being a “leader” or “representative” of the CBJ….

Sad

 

[thebus88]

There is nothing wrong with the Werenski contract, in context. He is more important than Laine to the team’s success.

So is Boone Jenner.

What does that mean regarding what Laine’s cap hit should be??

 

[VT]

Leaving out the impact that Laine’s high cap hit or him playing “big” or “important” minutes has on a team actually BEING a “good team”, and that the CBJ WERE a “good team” before he showed up, this idea that his offensive numbers will likely increase (or is even what’s NEEDED or what should be wanted) is false.

Why he gets a pass for his 1st CBJ season (20-21) and his impact on the disaster of that year is beyond me.

That said, last year, offense was not the problem for Laine or the team. The team was 14th in the league in GF and they were much closer to the top-10 than they were the bottom 10. With INCREASED effort and consistency (not holding my breathe, are you?) Laine probably could increase his offensive production, but, looking at the teams overall offensive production and the offensive skill of his teammates ISN’T where you should be looking for the increase to come from.

The fact that most of the CBJ games last year we’re essentially “meaningless” (many times to the opposing teams also) should also be taken into account when looking at this “PPG season”, IMO.

The problem is how many goals against the team allows, with Laine on and off of the ice. This idea that some are attempting to pass off as truth, that Laine is NOT an absolute detriment defensively, IS FALSE!!

Not only that, but, look at the COMPLETE OPPOSITE impact Laine has on the team than a guy like Panarin. Panarin nearly made any and every guy more effective on the ice and put up offensive numbers, WHILE PLAYING A RESPONSIBLE GAME, while guys sit here continuously making excuses for Superstar Laine, that the team and other players aren’t good enough for him to reach his truuu potential.

The CBJ need Laine to be MUCH MORE IMPACTFUL when he is not scoring goals. This idea that he is setting up guys left and right, and they aren’t finishing chances, is ANOTHER bogus idea some are attempting to pass off.

I hope for a trade at the draft. People had issues building behind Nash and the Jones teams and attacked them mercilessly for “bad play”, yet here we are with so many ‘ok’ with what Laine brings to the ice, as being a “leader” or “representative” of the CBJ….

Sad

Now you're overreacting because Laine scored a lot of game winning goals including OT when we had a chance to play in the PO, besides, aside from two empty net goals, none of his points were when the outcome of the game was clear (please write me right word for it) his 5v5 goal percentage was one of the best in the league. And sorry, but why didn't Boone Jenner have those stats last year if he's so good? He played a lot of minutes, both at the end of the season in PP too.

He wasn't as bad defensively as you claim either (of course I don't claim he was extra good). I know you don't like him, which is normal, but everything has its limits.

Btw, PLD played well without Panarin too. Besides, AP was nothing special in PO, which he proved this year. Oh, and Kaapo Kakko played better with Chytil and Lafreniere than with Panarin. So no need to exaggerate. Remember the second line of Dzingel -- Duchene -- Atkinson in PO.

Panarin was 28 years in Columbus and it's a pity you didn't see his defense in KHL in Laine's year.

EDIT: Please don't take this to mean Laine is perfect, because of he doesn't have good acceleration, one needs to improve his play without the puck, his positional play, although he does use his long stick more, one should use it more, must improve his play around the boards and in the corners. Maybe I'm expecting too much, but if he wants to be a top player, he needs to be at least a bit above average in the things he can influence, not top in one thing and average in another.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

So is Boone Jenner.

What does that mean regarding what Laine’s cap hit should be??

I love Boone, but with almost 600 game sample he has been a below 0.5 ppg player. This season was most likely a one off, and should be looked as one. Calling him more important than Laine is mental, especially long-term

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So is Boone Jenner.

What does that mean regarding what Laine’s cap hit should be??

I don’t know but I am hoping you will tell me.

 

[summer tooth]

What if he wants more than 10 per?

And wanting to stay in Columbus is reason enough to give him (almost) whatever he wants?

Well I think he and his reps know it's not going to be an Auston Matthews 11.5 so it seems like the most he could realistically ask for is 10 per.
Wanting to stay in Columbus is a factor to consider.

 

[Vapaatunnus]

Full article here in Finnish : Patrik Laineen pörröinen asuste hurmasi yleisön Nokialla – paljasti samalla stylistinsä: ”Luotan häneen vahvasti”

Interesting part:"
Laineen mukaan sopimusneuvottelut Columbuksen kanssa ovat parhaillaan käynnissä.
– Agenttini hoitaa. Itse en ole ollut yhteydessä (Jarmo) Kekäläiseen enkä kehenkään muuhunkaan seurassa. Asioista on juteltu aktiivisesti ja erilaisia sopimusvaihtoehtoja on pohdittu. Pidempiä ja lyhempiä.
– Kun asiat saadaan maaliin, panen sitten vain nimeni paperiin. Eiköhän molemmille sopiva ratkaisu synny kesän aikana, Laine luottaa."

Free quick translation: "According to Laine contract negotations with Columbus are ongoing.
-My agent is taking care of those. I haven't been in contact to Jarmo or no one else in CBJ. Discussions have been active and different contract options have been thought, longer and shorter.
- When things are finished I just sign the paper. I think we will find solution during summer"

 

[Halberdier]

That said, last year, offense was not the problem for Laine or the team. The team was 14th in the league in GF and they were much closer to the top-10 than they were the bottom 10. With INCREASED effort and consistency (not holding my breathe, are you?) Laine probably could increase his offensive production, but, looking at the teams overall offensive production and the offensive skill of his teammates ISN’T where you should be looking for the increase to come from.

Discount Laine, and the team would have been closer to be the dead last instead of TOP-10.

It's true that the team defense (and sadly also goaltending after a good start) was the biggest problem also last season, but still the offense was really limited without Laine, and not that good even with him.

PS: I haven't really checked the numbers, but it might be that when Laine was not injured, the CBJ was on playoff pace. In any case, his impact was really good last season.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

More Laine stuff here:

My guess on Mcdonagh.. the Columbus part is being vastly misreported . Sure Columbus could have told them they would claim , but how many teams were in front of us on waiver that would have done the same ?

As for Laine .. sure we needed to sign a back up… here’s a clue as to why maybe Korpi was resigned

 

[Halberdier]

I think the message from that interview is just to chill and enjoy the ride. Laine's agent and Jarmo gets the deal done at some point, and Laine will ink it when it's ready.

My take about the contract negotiations is that Laine likes it in Columbus and wants to stay there, but not with a discount. And since he has arbitration rights and a great last season + previous contract, he has no reason to agree a contract with discount.

It's up to Jarmo & co. to decide whether the injury risk is too high with ~9.5-10M Laine or not, as to this day most of his seasons have been crippled with injuries.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

If Forsberg is willing to sign 8 years at 8.5 or so for Nashville, Laine shouldn’t get a dime more. And that’s being nice because Forsberg is a better player.

 

[VT]

If Forsberg is willing to sign 8 years at 8.5 or so for Nashville, Laine shouldn’t get a dime more. And that’s being nice because Forsberg is a better player.

The key word... IF.
Laine is 4 year younger than Forsberg. Also it's still very important thing. His minimal salary because he's RFA.

 

[Viqsi]

If Forsberg is willing to sign 8 years at 8.5 or so for Nashville, Laine shouldn’t get a dime more. And that’s being nice because Forsberg is a better player.

That might be asking a bit much. Poile is to sweetheart deals with his key players as Kekalainen is to big trades - everybody counts them out, nobody expects them to do well, then they manage a result far far beyond wildest expectations and folks start mistakenly wondering if this is the new normal for the market when in fact it's just their particular area of badassery.

 

[Halberdier]

If Forsberg is willing to sign 8 years at 8.5 or so for Nashville, Laine shouldn’t get a dime more. And that’s being nice because Forsberg is a better player.

Forsberg had an awesome last season, which might be his career season as he is 28 when the next season starts. But his early career was much worse than Laine's, and that has affected his salaries.

Laine (24) is finally entering his prime, and it's interesting to see which one of these wingers will be better in the next season.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Forsberg had an awesome last season, which might be his career season as he is 28 when the next season starts. But his early career was much worse than Laine's, and that has affected his salaries.

Laine (24) is finally entering his prime, and it's interesting to see which one of these wingers will be better in the next season.

Forsberg never had a season like Laine did in year 1. And doesn’t have the “lazy Laine” baggage. He shouldn’t make more than Forsberg

 

[Halberdier]

Forsberg never had a season like Laine did in year 1. And doesn’t have the “lazy Laine” baggage. He shouldn’t make more than Forsberg

You mean like Laine had in his first year as a Jacket? That "lazy Laine" is just an utter bs anyway, but I hear you. Injured Laine is a recurring thing and that should make Jarmo cautious when thinking about 8 year deals.

Contract years are most relevant for contracts, and there is a reason why Forsberg has so far had lower AAV.

 

[Xoggz22]

If Forsberg is willing to sign 8 years at 8.5 or so for Nashville, Laine shouldn’t get a dime more. And that’s being nice because Forsberg is a better player.

Maybe this is noted after your post (haven't gotten there yet) but I was thinking of Forsberg.... What if the CBJ traded Bjorkstrand to Nashville for a signed Forsberg (even $9MM AAV or so - no clue, just throwing a number). Now where does that put Laine? I mean if he also signed for $9MM AAV, you have two pillars up top for the next 5-7 years or so with other contracts coming off. I don't want to lose Bjorkstrand but my goodness that changes the CBJ landscape quickly. Now add a defensemen and this team is reset with a lot of solid youth. It's one of the few moves I would think Bjorkstrand would be worthwhile for.

Hell, trade a pick for Forsberg's rights and then sign him and see where the rest falls. Have the cap space, wouldn't even need to move Bjorkstrand immediately. and still sign Laine.

 

[MoeBartoli]

I like Forsberg a lot but I don’t see him as a $9M player unless you believe this past year is somewhat the norm rather than the outlier. But maybe that’s the market for him.

 

[VT]

Maybe this is noted after your post (haven't gotten there yet) but I was thinking of Forsberg.... What if the CBJ traded Bjorkstrand to Nashville for a signed Forsberg (even $9MM AAV or so - no clue, just throwing a number). Now where does that put Laine? I mean if he also signed for $9MM AAV, you have two pillars up top for the next 5-7 years or so with other contracts coming off. I don't want to lose Bjorkstrand but my goodness that changes the CBJ landscape quickly. Now add a defensemen and this team is reset with a lot of solid youth. It's one of the few moves I would think Bjorkstrand would be worthwhile for.

Hell, trade a pick for Forsberg's rights and then sign him and see where the rest falls. Have the cap space, wouldn't even need to move Bjorkstrand immediately. and still sign Laine.

And than Johnson, Sillinger etc will play for a bowl of lentils?

 

[thebus88]

You mean like Laine had in his first year as a Jacket? That "lazy Laine" is just an utter bs anyway, but I hear you.

It’s not “BS” to his teammates or coaches.

Fact.

 

[wabagee]

It’s not “BS” to his teammates or coaches.

Fact.

Doesn’t bode well for his teammates if they think their best forward is lazy. Imagine how bad the rest of them will look if he starts trying!