Player Discussion: Patrik Laine IVever: a new hope? (Laine out of PAP, trade request still stands)

[DarkandStormy]

I'm not inclined to give Laine 7-8 years, just because he doesn't have a well-rounded game and can go through some pretty rough patches if the goals dry up. I also have no idea what this team is trying to be in the post-Bobrovsky/Foligno/Dubinsky/Anderson/Atkinson era. You see Tampa (the last three years, especially) and know what they're trying to be. Ditto the Avs. Ditto the Bruins for the last 10 years. I have no clue what the Jackets are trying to do and whether or not Laine fits into that.

Heck, they didn't even get to 7 years with Werenski.

I think 6 x 8.5 is probably the ballpark, maybe even go to 5 years on the term. +/- ~$1m annually on the AAV.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I'm pretty sure Jarmo won't decide what to pay Patrik based on he's a good interview and wears cool suits and funky sunnglasses.

 

[VT]

Nathan MacKinnon in December 2019 about the new contract:

‘I Have No Regrets’: Nathan MacKinnon On Being Underpaid, The Shifting RFA Market

As player empowerment continues to grow for NHL free agents, there is only one way to describe MacKinnon’s current salary arrangement: highway robbery.

www.forbes.com

“We have guys that we wouldn’t (otherwise) be able to bring in,” MacKinnon said. “On my next deal, I’ll take less again. Because I want to win with this group.”

I hope Patrik thinks the same.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

Nathan MacKinnon in December 2019 about the new contract:

‘I Have No Regrets’: Nathan MacKinnon On Being Underpaid, The Shifting RFA Market

As player empowerment continues to grow for NHL free agents, there is only one way to describe MacKinnon’s current salary arrangement: highway robbery.

www.forbes.com

“We have guys that we wouldn’t (otherwise) be able to bring in,” MacKinnon said. “On my next deal, I’ll take less again. Because I want to win with this group.”

I hope Patrik thinks the same.

If he did, he’d probably be signed already.

I can’t fault guys for wanting to get paid.

 

[VT]

No, it's still before

If he did, he’d probably be signed already.

I can’t fault guys for wanting to get paid.

No, it's still before his new contract. The big first he signed in 2016. Btw, Kucherov's first big contract was $4,something for 3years only because he wanted to team will be strong. And then $9.500.000.

 

[BB88]

Nathan MacKinnon in December 2019 about the new contract:

‘I Have No Regrets’: Nathan MacKinnon On Being Underpaid, The Shifting RFA Market

As player empowerment continues to grow for NHL free agents, there is only one way to describe MacKinnon’s current salary arrangement: highway robbery.

www.forbes.com

“We have guys that we wouldn’t (otherwise) be able to bring in,” MacKinnon said. “On my next deal, I’ll take less again. Because I want to win with this group.”

I hope Patrik thinks the same.

I don’t know why he’d have regrets on his 1st contract, he got paid the market value.
Just line what Barkov& Scheifele got paid ag that time as well.

But I believe he won’t go for max money and just like Barkov will leave money on the table.

But I also don’t think Laine is going for max amount, there’s more than just pure aav to think about, the term, trade protection, bonuses and so on

 

[VT]

I don’t know why he’d have regrets on his 1st contract, he got paid the market value.
Just line what Barkov& Scheifele got paid ag that time as well.

But I believe he won’t go for max money and just like Barkov will leave money on the table.

But I also don’t think Laine is going for max amount, there’s more than just pure aav to think about, the term, trade protection, bonuses and so on

If I understand correctly, not only MacKinnon but also Kucherov made concessions to the team on their first contact, Kucherov did so on the second, and MacKinnon is considering doing so as well.

 

[tunnelvision]

I'm not inclined to give Laine 7-8 years, just because he doesn't have a well-rounded game and can go through some pretty rough patches if the goals dry up. I also have no idea what this team is trying to be in the post-Bobrovsky/Foligno/Dubinsky/Anderson/Atkinson era.

I agree with this part of your post. Another big questionmark I have about Laine is his playoff performances. I have no idea if he's going to bring his A game or F game then, or perhaps just play kinda bad kinda good hockey. I'm sure most teams would love to have him on the PP in a close series but I don't how well his 5vs5 play in the regular season last year would translate to the playoffs.

I still feel that he's a type of player who can be very valuable top line winger with right type of supporting cast around him. The problem I believe that comes with a 7-8 year contract is that Jarmo has to find those right type of players to play with him, otherwise we could be running to cap problems at some point. I'm not saying he's too "one-dimensional" but I don't think he's going to play well with players of any style or level on his line. IMO there isn't enough dynamism and consistency in him to take the risk with that kind of contract. To be frank, I hope that when Jarmo signs him to a long-term deal, he does it because he feels he has no other option, and not because he really believes in Laine and is therefore ignoring some trade possibilities.

Not only does Jarmo have to find great forwards for our top-6, but great forwards, especially a 1C, who will have chemistry with Laine. How hard of a task is that? If I was a GM, ideally I would only give franchise-player-contracts to young top line/pairing players who have shown more consistency and increasing intensity/versatility in their development.

 

[Toe Pick]

I guess I may be in the minority that the longer this drags on the less confident I feel about a long term relationship. To be honest, I'm still on the fence if we SHOULD go long term/high dollar with Laine. I don't dislike the guy I'm just not a big believer in making wings the center piece of your team unless they can really drive the play ala Panarin.

If things do go south I hope Jarmo takes the Jones approach and deals him to the highest bidder prior to the draft. I'm looking at LA, Jersey, Carolina as potential landing spots among others.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Let me put it a different way - I don't live in Columbus and I've never see either of them in the news. I see them each occasionally in online media. Maybe it's different in Columbus/Ohio.

Laine hasn't raised the profile of the CBJ in national media any more than Elvis has.

EDIT: I agree that Laine's on-ice performance could become a bigger draw. All this charisma stuff is mostly nonsense and not doing anything to draw fans. If he scores a lot and helps them win a lot, sure.

As to raising the broader profile of the Jackets, I can say that Laine’s presence sure raised the references to Blue Jackets hockey on NHL SiriusXM, especially during his streak. Had he not been on the team, Columbus would have been on conversation much less…….Now how much that is worth? In my mind not as much as great play. And what’s Laine’s worth? For what he can bring on the ice, I sure hope we can keep him and in my ideal world it’d be a five year deal Which still gives him time to cash big one more time.

 

[Easternbull]

Seems to match a lot of what we see. I wonder where all that joy he had went?

I agree with this part of your post. Another big questionmark I have about Laine is his playoff performances. I have no idea if he's going to bring his A game or F game then, or perhaps just play kinda bad kinda good hockey. I'm sure most teams would love to have him on the PP in a close series but I don't how well his 5vs5 play in the regular season last year would translate to the playoffs.

I still feel that he's a type of player who can be very valuable top line winger with right type of supporting cast around him. The problem I believe that comes with a 7-8 year contract is that Jarmo has to find those right type of players to play with him, otherwise we could be running to cap problems at some point. I'm not saying he's too "one-dimensional" but I don't think he's going to play well with players of any style or level on his line. IMO there isn't enough dynamism and consistency in him to take the risk with that kind of contract. To be frank, I hope that when Jarmo signs him to a long-term deal, he does it because he feels he has no other option, and not because he really believes in Laine and is therefore ignoring some trade possibilities.

Not only does Jarmo have to find great forwards for our top-6, but great forwards, especially a 1C, who will have chemistry with Laine. How hard of a task is that? If I was a GM, ideally I would only give franchise-player-contracts to young top line/pairing players who have shown more consistency and increasing intensity/versatility in their development.

Patty is a big game player and thrives in these situations. When you have nothing to play for not so much..

 

[VT]

I agree with this part of your post. Another big questionmark I have about Laine is his playoff performances. I have no idea if he's going to bring his A game or F game then, or perhaps just play kinda bad kinda good hockey. I'm sure most teams would love to have him on the PP in a close series but I don't how well his 5vs5 play in the regular season last year would translate to the playoffs.

I still feel that he's a type of player who can be very valuable top line winger with right type of supporting cast around him. The problem I believe that comes with a 7-8 year contract is that Jarmo has to find those right type of players to play with him, otherwise we could be running to cap problems at some point. I'm not saying he's too "one-dimensional" but I don't think he's going to play well with players of any style or level on his line. IMO there isn't enough dynamism and consistency in him to take the risk with that kind of contract. To be frank, I hope that when Jarmo signs him to a long-term deal, he does it because he feels he has no other option, and not because he really believes in Laine and is therefore ignoring some trade possibilities.

Not only does Jarmo have to find great forwards for our top-6, but great forwards, especially a 1C, who will have chemistry with Laine. How hard of a task is that? If I was a GM, ideally I would only give franchise-player-contracts to young top line/pairing players who have shown more consistency and increasing intensity/versatility in their development.

If I understand correctly, 1 PPG playing with Jenner at center and mostly Nyquist on the wing against the opponents best line, while being able to play very good even against strong teams doesn't mean anything? Every player will play better with a better partner, but he was able to pull the team even with not TOP players, scoring many winning/important goals. On PP and 5:5, compare how many goals he had in 5:5 and for example Draisaitl, Debrincat, Pastrnak etc.

I know he's not the Selke Trophy candidate, but his overall game has improved (repeat, improved and not that it's perfect) and on offense he's proven, to paraphrase Jakub Voracek, he's a complete player, not just a sniper. It's on a Czech website.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

Nathan MacKinnon in December 2019 about the new contract:

‘I Have No Regrets’: Nathan MacKinnon On Being Underpaid, The Shifting RFA Market

As player empowerment continues to grow for NHL free agents, there is only one way to describe MacKinnon’s current salary arrangement: highway robbery.

www.forbes.com

“We have guys that we wouldn’t (otherwise) be able to bring in,” MacKinnon said. “On my next deal, I’ll take less again. Because I want to win with this group.”

I hope Patrik thinks the same.

It is easier to say and do this when you are playing on a Stanley Cup contender. He knows they'll have amazing pieces to build around for a long time.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I guess I may be in the minority that the longer this drags on the less confident I feel about a long term relationship. To be honest, I'm still on the fence if we SHOULD go long term/high dollar with Laine. I don't dislike the guy I'm just not a big believer in making wings the center piece of your team unless they can really drive the play ala Panarin.

If things do go south I hope Jarmo takes the Jones approach and deals him to the highest bidder prior to the draft. I'm looking at LA, Jersey, Carolina as potential landing spots among others.

The team doesn't really have time to decide. He's an RFA this summer with arb rights and hits UFA status July 2023. If they don't get a deal done, he'll just go to arbitration (something this team has never gone through and Jarmo made it quite clear they don't intend to get there with anyone) and then walk next summer.

I agree about term, which is why I don't think we'll see 7-8 years. I'm expecting something in the 4-6 year range, probably 5-6.

 

[CBJ goalie]

It is easier to say and do this when you are playing on a Stanley Cup contender. He knows they'll have amazing pieces to build around for a long time.

But they became Stanley Cup contenders because of his attitude, and willing to sacrifice.

The Colorado Avalanche are only 5 seasons removed from a brutal 22 win season, in '16-'17 - a team that MacKinnon was on.

 

[stevo61]

But they became Stanley Cup contenders because of his attitude, and willing to sacrifice.

The Colorado Avalanche are only 5 seasons removed from a brutal 22 win season, in '16-'17 - a team that MacKinnon was on.

Its part of it for sure. You have to really trust your GM in that case. Would suck to take a pay cut and then see them do what Buffalo did and give a guy like Jeff Skinner 9mil a year

 

[BB88]

But they became Stanley Cup contenders because of his attitude, and willing to sacrifice.

The Colorado Avalanche are only 5 seasons removed from a brutal 22 win season, in '16-'17 - a team that MacKinnon was on.

What sacrifice has he made?

He got exactly what he was worth at the time, his game exploded after his RFA deal.
Mackinnon, Barkov, Scheifele all for paid around 6M at that time.

He didn’t take a discount, it looks like now because his game got better and other ridiculous contracts after that.

But again 6M was what the best elc players were getting on their rfa deals.
The best Dmen were in 5-5.5 range then and today they are in 8-9.5M range

 

[CBJ goalie]

According to the Forbes story linked in posts above, he did take less than market value. He acknowledged as much.

 

[NotCommitted]

McKinnon's production ranged from career high rookie year of 63 points to a low of 38 (in 64gp) until his 2nd year of the new contract when he broke out and got over 90 points. But for his first 4 seasons in the league he was a ~45-65 point center, with great upside of course. Barkov is actually a great comparison, same draft, 1st and 2nd OA, similar production and he signed for $400,000 less or so. Scheifele couple years older, signed around the same time for between Barkov & McKinnon money.

They look crazy good deals in hindsight simply because all 3 players broke out in a big way, coninciding with the market shifting and younger guys signing big deals right after their ELC. But I think they were just market value signings and the new trend of giving really big 2nd contracts is a relatively new one. You don't have to look further than Leon Draisaitl, who is a year younger than Barkov & McKinnon and he signed a $8.5mil deal after already having scored over 70 points and at the time the Oilers were ridiculed for their overpay.

 

[BB88]

According to the Forbes story linked in posts above, he did take less than market value. He acknowledged as much.

Barkov scored 59 points in 66 games and took 5.9Mx6.
Mackinnon had 52 points in 72 games before he took 6.3Mx7.
Scheifele had 61 points in 71 games before he took 6.125Mx8

That was the going rate for top C’s coming off of ELC at that time.
I believe he won’t ask for max but that 1st one was fair.

& back to Laine I believe the ”challenge” meaning why it will take so long is everything outside the pure numbers.
There’s NMC vs bonuses vs whatever to sort out& I can’t see how Laine either would ask for the max.
In his interviews he has never been about money& his lifestyle outside of cars fits that

 

[KJ Dangler]

Laines contract should be what he’s worth, maybe a slight overpay if you need to, and that’s it.Doesn’t matter what your cap situation is now , it’s 4 yrs down the road when all this young talent should be at their peak . If you have to overpay a tad , front load the contract . Here’s the thing , Laine is a great talent , but he needs to become way more consistent , and stay healthy . I would say somewhere around 8.7 is a very fair contract

 

[KJ Dangler]

I follow lot of different teams games and follow a lot what happens in the NHL.

I don’t see Elvis anywhere in the superstar tier in media draw.

Maybe it changes but right now& what has been in the past Laine is the media guy bar none.
Johnson has potential to get hype around him based on his skill

Until the team is both fun to watch , and winning meaningful playoff games , of-course that will be the case . Jackets have been in the league for how long now , and that has yet to happen. Look at Minnesota , which is a traditional hockey market , same thing with them , they had the exact same thing until Kaspirov has burst on the scene . Now their is a lot of buzz regarding both him and the Minnesota team.

 

[JacketsDavid]

My thoughts on Laine have generally been the same:
If he's your best player then that's a very bad thing. But he could be a great complimentary player.
I don't mind paying him, we are not saddled with man/any bad contracts, so getting someone signed to the right deal (even if a slight overpay) is important after all the free agency losses over last few years.

 

[5th Line Fanatic]

My thoughts on Laine have generally been the same:
If he's your best player then that's a very bad thing. But he could be a great complimentary player.
I don't mind paying him, we are not saddled with man/any bad contracts, so getting someone signed to the right deal (even if a slight overpay) is important after all the free agency losses over last few years.

I agree with this.

Do you think Laine is our best player right now?

 

[JacketsDavid]

I agree with this.

Do you think Laine is our best player right now?

Offensively I think he is. At least I think he is the guy the defense is most worried about. Other guys may get more assists but I think he is the guy who other teams worry about.
Overall player (including defense) I think Zach W is better but different positions, etc.