Panarin: Yes or No?

[Shootertooter]

There is nothing in the Trouba trade that screams out that they are "all in". If they are all in, then why not sign Hayes and resign Zucc while are at it?

All the Trouba trade continues to demonstrate is that Gorton is willing to strike quickly to get the asset that he wants and sees to be a part of the future. There is nothing about it that screams "The rebuild is over!".

Age does not fit the rebuild time table. I think the same with Panarin but with Panarin, the rebuild is likely over.
We are not there yet, stay the course.

 

[Off Sides]

I think the rebuild in terms of them drafting in early lottery position is over.

They could have gone two ways

Draft #2

Kept all their picks for this draft and waited on them, likely being in lottery position again next draft.

If Fox, Trouba go UFA and sign they do, if not they don't.

Or

Draft #2

Trade those other picks away for players who are NHLers or on the cusp



They picked option 2.

Without the early lottery position next draft, what is the point in them not trying to build a playoff team?

 

[True Blue]

Age does not fit the rebuild time table. I think the same with Panarin but with Panarin, the rebuild is likely over.
We are not there yet, stay the course.

I completely agree, but also recognize that there are several paths, but the necessary dominoes have to fall into place.

 

[True Blue]

Without the early lottery position next draft, what is the point in them not trying to build a playoff team?

As situated right now, they are still a lottery team, IMO. Heck, even with Panarin instead of Kreider (highly doubt it would be both, given the contract that they will give to Trouba), they may be better than last year, but are still a bottom 10 finisher.

We have no idea of what Kravstov or Kakko will bring. We have hopes, but history points to a certain trajectory. Trouba makes the defense better but even if if they loose Shattenkirk and Smith does nothing but play on the 4th line, there will be at least two rookies in the line up. There WILL be growing pains.

Many things can change after this weekend, but as of now, I still think that the rise begins with the 2020 season.

 

[Off Sides]

As situated right now, they are still a lottery team, IMO. Heck, even with Panarin instead of Kreider (highly doubt it would be both, given the contract that they will give to Trouba), they may be better than last year, but are still a bottom 10 finisher.

We have no idea of what Kravstov or Kakko will bring. We have hopes, but history points to a certain trajectory. Trouba makes the defense better but even if if they loose Shattenkirk and Smith does nothing but play on the 4th line, there will be at least two rookies in the line up. There WILL be growing pains.

Many things can change after this weekend, but as of now, I still think that the rise begins with the 2020 season.

I feel as if things are going to change where it's now, let's build around Zbad, Trouba as their #1 center and #1D. Why are they going to waste a year of the remaining 3 of Zbad, or one of whatever Trouba signs for, plus an entry level year of the #2 pick and Kravstov? lesser extent, Chytil, Howden, etc.

 

[True Blue]

I feel as if things are going to change where it's now, let's build around Zbad, Trouba as their #1 center and #1D. Why are they going to waste a year of the remaining 3 of Zbad, or one of whatever Trouba signs for, plus an entry level year of the #2 pick and Kravstov? lesser extent, Chytil, Howden, etc.

Because they cannot possibly compete with the team the way that it stands right now, with the unknown being how much of a step forward last year's youngsters take, not knowing how much of a Day 1 impact this year's corps of rookie's bring, and no knowledge of how the goalie situation (how much impact can the rookie make, will Georgiev take a step forward or back and knowing that Henke adds another year of depreciation.

They may well have their #1 C and #1 D, but there is just not enough support right now. And going crazy on UFAs to ensure there is support goes counter to everything that they have done up to now.

 

[Off Sides]

Because they cannot possibly compete with the team the way that it stands right now, with the unknown being how much of a step forward last year's youngsters take, not knowing how much of a Day 1 impact this year's corps of rookie's bring, and no knowledge of how the goalie situation (how much impact can the rookie make, will Georgiev take a step forward or back and knowing that Henke adds another year of depreciation.

They may well have their #1 C and #1 D, but there is just not enough support right now. And going crazy on UFAs to ensure there is support goes counter to everything that they have done up to now.

They traded #20 and I think it was #37 away for Trouba and Fox.

There is talk of a buyout of Shattenkirk, trading Kreider, Buch, Lias.

If Kreider goes they are going to want a LW.

It kind of looks to me, should that come to fruition like they've made their choose on which direction they are going whether ready or not.

I'm not trying to say I support it, I think they've jumped the gun, yet it sure looks to me like they are going to at the very least try to build a team who they think can be a playoff team next season and they will try to use the entry levels they have to counteract the expensive stuff they are going to add.

 

[True Blue]

They traded #20 and I think it was #37 away for Trouba and Fox.

Because those were assets that Gorton wanted at a price he wanted them at. To him the 2nd for Fox was worth it. And Trouba came along at a price that probably no one could say no to.

There is talk of a buyout of Shattenkirk, trading Kreider, Buch, Lias.

They are not trading them away to get established support. They would be traded to get another draft picks. That is not supporting next year.

It kind of looks to me, should that come to fruition like they've made their choose on which direction they are going whether ready or not.

Based on acquiring a kid who will be a rookie, a 25 year old top defenseman and the knowledge that they want to acquire more picks? That does not sound like a team that is going for a deep playoff run.

I'm not trying to say I support it, I think they've jumped the gun, yet it sure looks to me like they are going to at the very least try to build a team who they think can be a playoff team next season and they will try to use the entry levels they have to counteract the expensive stuff they are going to add.

Sorry, do not see that. Acquiring more draft picks, a rookie and a defenseman at a deal you could not say no to, does not appear to be the signs of a team that is builidng for a playoff run. Nor does it tell me that they jumped the gun. You want a rebuilding team to acquire young assets and draft picks. That is what they have done and are doing.

 

[will1066]

Employer had extra Panera Bread catering, so I got a free lunch. So, yes to Panarin. It's a sign.

 

[True Blue]

Employer had extra Panera Bread catering, so I got a free lunch. So, yes to Panarin. It's a sign.

So let it be written. So let it be done.

 

[Off Sides]

Because those were assets that Gorton wanted at a price he wanted them at. To him the 2nd for Fox was worth it. And Trouba came along at a price that probably no one could say no to.

They are not trading them away to get established support. They would be traded to get another draft picks. That is not supporting next year.

Based on acquiring a kid who will be a rookie, a 25 year old top defenseman and the knowledge that they want to acquire more picks? That does not sound like a team that is going for a deep playoff run.

Sorry, do not see that. Acquiring more draft picks, a rookie and a defenseman at a deal you could not say no to, does not appear to be the signs of a team that is builidng for a playoff run. Nor does it tell me that they jumped the gun. You want a rebuilding team to acquire young assets and draft picks. That is what they have done and are doing.

I don't think they are stopping at Trouba.

They may add a pick or two for this draft, yet I don't think that changes that they are also going to try to add to the Trouba, Zbad, Stome, Skjei range.

If they think Panarin at 28 fits, I don't see why they do not add him or similar.

 

[True Blue]

I don't think they are stopping at Trouba.

You mean there will be another 25 year old whose price to get traded for will equal to Trouba? Ok. Sure. Sign me up. Only problem is I do not see Gorton starting to trade first rounders from future drafts. Which means that there is now such price. Which means that there are not players like Trouba coming. Or at least to me it does.

They may add a pick or two for this draft, yet I don't think that changes that they are also going to try to add to the Trouba, Zbad, Stome, Skjei range.

Based on what? Trading for a 25 year old defenseman?

If they think Panarin at 28 fits, I don't see why they do not add him or similar.

Sure, if all of the necessary dominoes fall in place and his ask is in Gorton's range, then ok. But if said dominoes do not fall into place or his ask not what is within Gorton's/JD's range, then no. Not for Panarin. Not for anyone else.

I fail to see how this team as constituted competes. Even if you trade Kreider and sub in Panarin. Which means that they then need support. Which means abandoning the rebuild and start to hand out major UFA contracts. Which is what seemingly your are implying. I see absolutely no smoke or fire to indicate that.

 

[Off Sides]

You mean there will be another 25 year old whose price to get traded for will equal to Trouba? Ok. Sure. Sign me up. Only problem is I do not see Gorton starting to trade first rounders from future drafts. Which means that there is now such price. Which means that there are not players like Trouba coming. Or at least to me it does.

Based on what? Trading for a 25 year old defenseman?

Sure, if all of the necessary dominoes fall in place and his ask is in Gorton's range, then ok. But if said dominoes do not fall into place or his ask not what is within Gorton's/JD's range, then no. Not for Panarin. Not for anyone else.

I fail to see how this team as constituted competes. Even if you trade Kreider and sub in Panarin. Which means that they then need support. Which means abandoning the rebuild and start to hand out major UFA contracts. Which is what seemingly your are implying. I see absolutely no smoke or fire to indicate that.

What do you think they are going to do if they trade Kreider, Buch, Namestnikov, Vesey, Fast?

Just go into the season without replacing them with established NHLers?

 

[Maximus]

You mean there will be another 25 year old whose price to get traded for will equal to Trouba? Ok. Sure. Sign me up. Only problem is I do not see Gorton starting to trade first rounders from future drafts. Which means that there is now such price. Which means that there are not players like Trouba coming. Or at least to me it does.

Based on what? Trading for a 25 year old defenseman?

Sure, if all of the necessary dominoes fall in place and his ask is in Gorton's range, then ok. But if said dominoes do not fall into place or his ask not what is within Gorton's/JD's range, then no. Not for Panarin. Not for anyone else.

I fail to see how this team as constituted competes. Even if you trade Kreider and sub in Panarin. Which means that they then need support. Which means abandoning the rebuild and start to hand out major UFA contracts. Which is what seemingly your are implying. I see absolutely no smoke or fire to indicate that.

I don't foresee Gorton trading anymore firsts for the rest of this year...I think he's done. His decision that Trouba and Fox were worth the 20th and 37th overalls have been universally applauded not just here in Rangerland but across the league

Rebuild is in full swing and nothing is changing that which includes if they bring in Panarin as that changes nothing.

I believe in Gorton's mind, he thinks we are past the half way mark of the rebuild...something in the 60-65% range. So it's full steam ahead onthe rebuild train. The ony UFA I see him going hard for is Panarin. If we don't get him, no biggie. So not sure why you think Gorton would need too in order to compete for a playoff spot. He doesn't have too at all.

What @offsides states and I happen to agree with him about is, I think Gorton and JD want to give Quinn a team that can compete for one of the lower seed playoff spots while continuing to rebuild and acquire more assets. I'm not even adding Panarin to the mix either.

This roster is good enough as is to compete for a bubble spot. I'm not talking long playoff runs. But to be in the mix until the end of March early April for one of those final spots, I don't see why not.

You can disagree with this and so maybe it's in the eyes of the beholder but a top 9 of Zibs,Kreider,Kakko,Buch,Kravtsov,Chytl,Strome,Names,Lemieux along with guys like Lias,Vesey,Howdon and Fast is not terrible at all. And in fact pretty dang promising. You take away Kreider and replace him with Panarin, that fwd group just got a heck of alot better.

A defensive corps with a Trouba-Skjei top pairing followed by DeAngelo,Shatty,Staal, Hajek and Smith for now is not too bad as Trouba makes a big difference there.

Goaltending of Hank and Georgie should be sufficient. Like I said, we aren't talking long playoff run with this group as it's not set up to go on on yet....that should start in 2020-2021. But to compete for a bubble spot? I'd be shocked if the team didn't.

And have you looked at the rest of the division? Other than the Caps, who else is a lock for a playoff spot in the Metro? Maybe the Pens but even they are starting to show warts and all.

Have you looked at the Atlantic? Other than the Lightning, Bruins and Leafs, who is a lock for a playoff spot in that division?

From my calculations there are 3-4 available playoff spots in the East and I don't see why the Rangers can't compete for one of those last couple of ones as there are alot of teams in the East who have some major question marks associated with them.

We are in a great spot. We can compete for a playoff spot and continue the rebuild at same time. Don't get better than that.

 

[theFiGS]

I'm really curious why this is so close, we'd have an all star wing all starish D all star goalie to lead our young exciting kids coming up and the ones here. The breadman is not a soft Russian winger, I watched him grind and fight and want it in CLB. I don't wanna overpay or get into a bid was with Florida or Tampa but I love this kids game since chicago. I thought he was so good because he had Kane with him but seeing him light it up in CLB with less then with duchene it was beautiful. I think he fits perfect in our cup timeline.

 

[True Blue]

What do you think they are going to do if they trade Kreider, Buch, Namestnikov, Vesey, Fast?

Just go into the season without replacing them with established NHLers?

The answer is that I do not believe that all of them will be traded. At least out of the top 4. Fast is a 4th liner right now and is not an integral part. A combination of some of the first 4 names? Sure. But I doubt it would be two of the players that finished flanking ZBad last year. So now you are down to players that they deem to be replaceable and the replacements are already here. With the exception of Kreider. But that still means that two thirds of the top line from last year is returning. And the second and third line to be manned by incoming rookies (presumably whose last names both start with "K") or those who were already here last year and played those roles.

 

[True Blue]

I'm really curious why this is so close, we'd have an all star wing all starish D all star goalie to lead our young exciting kids coming up and the ones here.

Because....no, can't go into it again. Please read this tread from the top to get good ideas. Or the Roster Building thread.

 

[True Blue]

This roster is good enough as is to compete for a bubble spot. I'm not talking long playoff runs. But to be in the mix until the end of March early April for one of those final spots, I don't see why not.

You can disagree with this and so maybe it's in the eyes of the beholder but a top 9 of Zibs,Kreider,Kakko,Buch,Kravtsov,Chytl,Strome,Names,Lemieux along with guys like Lias,Vesey,Howdon and Fast is not terrible at all. And in fact pretty dang promising. You take away Kreider and replace him with Panarin, that fwd group just got a heck of alot better.

You and I do disagree on this and I think that you know what all of my reasoning is. Which is why I am not going to regurgitate it again (unless you really want me to).

Barring 100% of everything going right, which includes NO ONE taking a step back in development (and that has never happened) and rookies not struggling and instantly becoming impact players (history says unlikely), Henke reversing the aging process, Staal discovering the fountain of youth.......well again, take out Krieder and bring back Panarin and short of everything going dreamily well, this still a lottery team.

 

[Doriva]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but ignoring what is cost to get them and where their careers ended up, where would people rank in terms of ability:

Gaborik when he arrived at NYR
Nash when he arrived at NYR
Panarin approaching UFA

 

[RangerLifer]

Employer had extra Panera Bread catering, so I got a free lunch. So, yes to Panarin. It's a sign.

 

[bbny]

Possible decision day tomorrow. The ayes have it, but a pretty close vote.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, but ignoring what is cost to get them and where their careers ended up, where would people rank in terms of ability:

Gaborik when he arrived at NYR
Nash when he arrived at NYR
Panarin approaching UFA

Probably:

Panarin
Gaborik

Nash

 

[NYRangers88]

Sorry for the silly question, but what time tomorrow can free agents officially start signing? Its it noon EST?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Sorry for the silly question, but what time tomorrow can free agents officially start signing? Its it noon EST?

correct

 

[chosen]

As situated right now, they are still a lottery team, IMO. Heck, even with Panarin instead of Kreider (highly doubt it would be both, given the contract that they will give to Trouba), they may be better than last year, but are still a bottom 10 finisher.

We have no idea of what Kravstov or Kakko will bring. We have hopes, but history points to a certain trajectory. Trouba makes the defense better but even if if they loose Shattenkirk and Smith does nothing but play on the 4th line, there will be at least two rookies in the line up. There WILL be growing pains.

Many things can change after this weekend, but as of now, I still think that the rise begins with the 2020 season.

Barring injuries, I don't think they are headed towards a lottery pick.

Unless everyone is wrong, we most certainly know what we are getting in Kakko, and that's a very good first-liner.