Ovechkin vs Laine comparison.

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Whoever had the stones to draft ovechkin first overall in the nhl draft might be the luckiest and smartest hockey exec in history.

Who could have guessed that after selecting him, ovechkin would go from average to bad KHL fodder player as a teenager, and have the absolute, unquestionable best, incredible upwards trajectory to become one of the top 5 players in the entire world within just one measly offseason?

Either that, or ovechkin was an incredible player at 18 and simply progressed as a player for the few years after turnin 18? Who knows, really.

The Finnish Five believe the former. Personally, I think ovechkin was already an incredible player at 18, but they know better. I mean, one of the Finnish Five, in this very thread, posted that if ovi was good enough to be in the nhl as a teenager like laine, he would have been. Guess when you start watching the nhl in 2016, things like past lockouts are hard to know about, especially in Finland

 

[heretik27]

What does PP opportunity matter? I used his scoring placement not his raw total because obviously someone would try to be a smartass about the 05-06 season, I didn't say Laine had to match 106 points, Ovechkin finished 3rd overall in the points race which was the equivalent of 100 points last season as a rookie.

Laine with 2 years experience on him in this league likely doesn't even sniff that.

PP matters because it's easier to score with the man advantage. Obviously Laine to date isn't nearly the same type of overall player as prime Ovy, but if people are talking about him needing to be top 3 in points for age to age comparisons, having more than 7 mins of PP time per game would certainly go a long way towards helping him achieve that. You can't seriously tell me for players with the shooting weapons that Ovy and Laine have that PP time doesn't matter when they're typically the triggermen. I still think Ovy will be a far more complete player than Laine, but these point comparisons age to age drive me nuts because the context is never the same. I think Laine can potentially manage the points, but I'll never agree to say he's on Ovechkin's level of dominance until he can drive the plays consistently by himself.

 

[Psych0dad]

Whoever had the stones to draft ovechkin first overall in the nhl draft might be the luckiest and smartest hockey exec in history.

Who could have guessed that after selecting him, ovechkin would go from average to bad KHL fodder player as a teenager, and have the absolute, unquestionable best, incredible upwards trajectory to become one of the top 5 players in the entire world within just one measly offseason?

Either that, or ovechkin was an incredible player at 18 and simply progressed as a player for the few years after turnin 18? Who knows, really.

The Finnish Five believe the former. Personally, I think ovechkin was already an incredible player at 18, but they know better. I mean, one of the Finnish Five, in this very thread, posted that if ovi was good enough to be in the nhl as a teenager like laine, he would have been. Guess when you start watching the nhl in 2016, things like past lockouts are hard to know about, especially in Finland

He could have played in the pre-lockout season as an 18 year old.

Don't pretend you have more knowledge of Ovechkin or Mario, I was watching hockey actively when they both started their careers. I can almost guarantee I saw more of Ovechkin pre-NHL than you did. And definitely seen a lot more of Laine than you have, prior to and in the NHL.

Mario in my opinion the greatest of all time.

 

[Halberdier]

Kovalchuk had those numbers in 04-05 but whatever
If you're not convinced by this point after all these opinions that Ovechkin maybe, just maybe was a better player than Laine at the same age I guess there's no point in arguing

No, you are confused. Those numbers were not from 04-05, but from 00-01 (RSL) and 01-03 (NHL).

Kovalchuck as a 17-year-old was light years better statistically than Ovi 17-year-old, Ovi 18-year-old and Ovi 19-year-old. Same RSL league, apples to apples.

Kovalchuck as 18 and 19 years old was tremendous NHL player, but not touching the same level as Laine. Not close.

How on earth you make the assumption that 18-19 years old Ovi was better than Kovy and also, furthermore better than Laine, who was better than Kovy?

Logic doesn't work here, I suppose.


Edit: as said already zillion times, 20-year-old Ovy was ready package and a real monster. It's huge uphill battle for Laine to beat him. I'm eager to see what happens even if it's most probable that he won't get that PP time, that TOI and he will continue to be forced to play with Little, who he doesn't seem to fit at slightest.

 

[tony d]

Laine's had a good career thus far and looks to be getting better but don't see the comparisons between him and Ovie.

 

[Romang67]

He could have played in the pre-lockout season as an 18 year old.

Don't pretend you have more knowledge of Ovechkin or Mario, I was watching hockey actively when they both started their careers. I can almost guarantee I saw more of Ovechkin pre-NHL than you did. And definitely seen a lot more of Laine than you have, prior to and in the NHL.

Mario in my opinion the greatest of all time.

That would have been something, given that he wasn't eligible to be drafted until 2004.

 

[Psych0dad]

That would have been something, given that he wasn't eligible to be drafted until 2004.

Ok, I won't argue with that.

Still though, his RSL (maybe 5th-6th best league at the time) numbers or his play and numbers in international play gives no indication he would have scored Laine numbers in NHL at that age.

 

[oXo Cube]

No, you are confused. Those numbers were not from 04-05, but from 00-01 (RSL) and 01-03 (NHL).

Kovalchuck as a 17-year-old was light years better statistically than Ovi 17-year-old, Ovi 18-year-old and Ovi 19-year-old. Same RSL league, apples to apples.

Kovalchuck as 18 and 19 years old was tremendous NHL player, but not touching the same level as Laine. Not close.

How on earth you make the assumption that 18-19 years old Ovi was better than Kovy and also, furthermore better than Laine, who was better than Kovy?

Logic doesn't work here, I suppose.


Edit: as said already zillion times, 20-year-old Ovy was ready package and a real monster. It's huge uphill battle for Laine to beat him. I'm eager to see what happens even if it's most probable that he won't get that PP time, that TOI and he will continue to be forced to play with Little, who he doesn't seem to fit at slightest.

Given that Ovechkin was/is a vastly superior player to Kovalchuk in the NHL at any age, all this really tells me is that the numbers from the RSL aren't indicative of pretty much anything.

If they are worth something, it would mean that additional context I'm not aware of would need to apply that would drive Ovy's perception up.

 

[DRW204]

So same question about Ovechkins 18 year old season.

My point is that you and others are comparing laine in the NHL, during a time where stats are prevalent and heavily used, to a guy that played in a league that doesn't exist and most people here, never watched. His RSL team was junk. Unless you know his usages, among other things, what is the point of this comparison? You cant just look at intraleague box scores and compare them 1:1....

Rookie year NHL is rookie year NHL. If anything, giving laine an extra two years of in-game development hurts Ovechkin more than comparing the rookie years hurts Laine. If he doesn't live up to the comparison in his 20 year old season then it should be viewed as a way worse failure given that hes got 3 years NHL experience at that point.

QFT

How is Laine as a 3rd year pro equivalent to a rookie Ovie on his first time on NHL/NA ice.... Laine has to surpass current Ovie before surpassing younger Ovie. This isn't a knock against Laine, he's one of the best goal scorers in the league currently. Ovie is just one of the best of all time.

Laine was 2nd on the Jets in pts w/ 70 (21 away from wheeler) and 3rd in PPG. He was on the 2nd line on a roster with elite forward depth and a collection of great offensive/PMD. Ovie's roster on those early Caps teams was in another stratosphere of suck comparatively yet Ovie was still potting 50+ and 100+ pts

 

[oXo Cube]

@TheDoldrums Well at least he has softened his stance from "beats Gretzky with hands tied behind his back" to being merely comparable to Mario Lemieux.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean, the options were Ovi, Malkin (who was in the same boat as Ovechkin if you want to fault Ovi for not producing in the RSL) or Cam Barker in the 2004 NHL draft. Ovechkin was pretty unanimously considered the 1st overall in that draft, seeing what he did outside of the RSL. The dude had 23 goals in 14 U-18 WJC games and 18 goals in 18 U-20 WJC games, and finished with a 1.75 PPG in the WJC in total (56 points in 32 games). If you're really going to judge him based solely on his RSL numbers, I don't know what to tell you.

Laine's numbers don't even sniff Ovechkin's numbers in terms of international success, and it's the same with Kovalchuk. Just seems weird to compare them, Laine doesn't sniff Ovechkin either statistically or based on the eye test.

 

[Varan]

"just pointing out Laine had better production as a teen"

Ovechkin - entered the NHL at age 20.

Probably the dumbest post here. Hold up let me compare who has better production at 25, oh wait.

LMFAO EXACTLY

 

[Varan]

Oh look, a logical fallacy. And I didn't even need to learn scarecrows song....

Didn't say they sucked big guy. Being worse then a first ballot HOF who went toe to toe with Crosby does not mean you suck. Just means you are not as good. I'm not the one reaching and putting my guy on pedestal.

You are comparing a guy who has won nothing individually to a top 30 All time player. Don't get sensationalist when people say he isn't.

Top 20 g

 

[shtorm2005]

When even Pens' fans argue that Ovy is better than Laine, it must be true.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

He could have played in the pre-lockout season as an 18 year old.

Don't pretend you have more knowledge of Ovechkin or Mario, I was watching hockey actively when they both started their careers. I can almost guarantee I saw more of Ovechkin pre-NHL than you did. And definitely seen a lot more of Laine than you have, prior to and in the NHL.

Mario in my opinion the greatest of all time.

Calls a poster out saying literally “I have more hockey knowledge than you”

Then proceeds to say ovechkin could have been in the nhl before even being drafted. Something does not compute

You literally make truly knowledgeable jets fans and Finnish fans look bad

 

[Alf the dwarf]

I can see the past. Laine's past seasons do not suggest an ascention to the level only 4 players are on. And 3 of them for the past 10+ years. Those are rare. Laine is not one of them. But nothing to complain about. He is still a great player and goal scorer.

Yeah, it's going to be a bit of a miracle if he scores over 100 points next season. But for Ovechkin nothing suggested either that he's going to score over 100 points when he entered NHL as rookie. It was crazy what he did on his first season in NHL, I quess nobody expected that much from him.

But yeah, you might be aswell right he will never reach that level, but I hope he does!

 

[Alf the dwarf]

Whoever had the stones to draft ovechkin first overall in the nhl draft might be the luckiest and smartest hockey exec in history.

Who could have guessed that after selecting him, ovechkin would go from average to bad KHL fodder player as a teenager, and have the absolute, unquestionable best, incredible upwards trajectory to become one of the top 5 players in the entire world within just one measly offseason?

Either that, or ovechkin was an incredible player at 18 and simply progressed as a player for the few years after turnin 18? Who knows, really.

The Finnish Five believe the former. Personally, I think ovechkin was already an incredible player at 18, but they know better. I mean, one of the Finnish Five, in this very thread, posted that if ovi was good enough to be in the nhl as a teenager like laine, he would have been. Guess when you start watching the nhl in 2016, things like past lockouts are hard to know about, especially in Finland

We remember lockouts because we get NHL players to play in our league, and it has been many times brought up in this thread. But there wasn't lockout when he was 18. He missed 1 out of 2 seasons which Laine already played in NHL because of lockout

 

[Psych0dad]

Calls a poster out saying literally “I have more hockey knowledge than you”

Then proceeds to say ovechkin could have been in the nhl before even being drafted. Something does not compute

You literally make truly knowledgeable jets fans and Finnish fans look bad

Because I didn't check Ovechkins birthday, I'm not knowledgeable in hockey. Sure thing.

You should just focus on attacking the arguments, not the person making the argument.

 

[Hivemind]

We remember lockouts because we get NHL players to play in our league, and it has been many times brought up in this thread. But there wasn't lockout when he was 18. He missed 1 out of 2 seasons which Laine already played in NHL because of lockout

Ovechkin wasn't eligible to play in the NHL before the lockout. You're a buffoon.

 

[Plural]

We remember lockouts because we get NHL players to play in our league, and it has been many times brought up in this thread. But there wasn't lockout when he was 18. He missed 1 out of 2 seasons which Laine already played in NHL because of lockout

Oh jesus f***ing christ. Ovechkin wasn't able to play before the lockout. How hard is it to check his draft?

 

[North Cole]

QFT

How is Laine as a 3rd year pro equivalent to a rookie Ovie on his first time on NHL/NA ice.... Laine has to surpass current Ovie before surpassing younger Ovie. This isn't a knock against Laine, he's one of the best goal scorers in the league currently. Ovie is just one of the best of all time.

Laine was 2nd on the Jets in pts w/ 70 (21 away from wheeler) and 3rd in PPG. He was on the 2nd line on a roster with elite forward depth and a collection of great offensive/PMD. Ovie's roster on those early Caps teams was in another stratosphere of suck comparatively yet Ovie was still potting 50+ and 100+ pts

Yes, I said that earlier. If he isn't better than 32 year old OV, then he won't be better than 20 year old OV...

He is not equivalent, that was my point, which is why we should compare rookie seasons with rookie seasons. Hf has too much of an obsession with trying to split hairs, "well my guys a year younger so compare their seasons based on ages". Same thing was being said in the Mack vs Kucherov thread, people act as though there is some huge age difference but there isn't and that's their justification for taking Mackinnon even though Kucherov has been better in each of the last 4 years but this one. Even then he was barely beat out...

I feel like you misread my statement or I'm misreading yours because we seem to agree?

EDIT - I'm dumb and we agreed, I just don't apparently know what QFT means. Oops

Top 20 g

Hey I agree, I was just being reserved and going for a general ballpark statement so I didn't have to argue with people that thought he was outside top 20. Didn't want to turn the thread into a top 100 players all-time list.

I think Laine is a great young player, I also happen to think Ovechkin was the hockey equivalent of World XI at his peak. The premise of the OP is off IMO, we are meant to agree simply because no NHL data exists for OV as 18/19 year old BUT we aren't allowed to use his 20 year old season because it's no NHL data exists for Laine. Seems a bit hypocritical, don't you agree? RSL vs NHL data isn't really comparable IMO. There is absolutely no context to go with it.

All we know is that Ovechkin had vastly more hype surrounding his draft stock, but we are meant to believe he was trash in the RSL and couldn't have made the jump as a younger player? Something is way off here.

 

[oXo Cube]

Because I didn't check Ovechkins birthday, I'm not knowledgeable in hockey. Sure thing.

You should just focus on attacking the arguments, not the person making the argument.

No, you aren't knowledgeable in hockey because you apparently believe that Laine = Lemieux.

That you didn't know what year Ovechkin was drafted is just funny.

 

[DRW204]

Yes, I said that earlier. If he isn't better than 32 year old OV, then he won't be better than 20 year old OV...

He is not equivalent, that was my point, which is why we should compare rookie seasons with rookie seasons. Hf has too much of an obsession with trying to split hairs, "well my guys a year younger so compare their seasons based on ages". Same thing was being said in the Mack vs Kucherov thread, people act as though there is some huge age difference but there isn't and that's their justification for taking Mackinnon even though Kucherov has been better in each of the last 4 years but this one. Even then he was barely beat out...

I feel like you misread my statement or I'm misreading yours because we seem to agree?



Hey I agree, I was just being reserved and going for a general ballpark statement so I didn't have to argue with people that thought he was outside top 20. Didn't want to turn the thread into a top 100 players all-time list.

I think Laine is a great young player, I also happen to think Ovechkin was the hockey equivalent of World XI at his peak. The premise of the OP is off IMO, we are meant to agree simply because no NHL data exists for OV as 18/19 year old BUT we aren't allowed to use his 20 year old season because it's no NHL data exists for Laine. Seems a bit hypocritical, don't you agree? RSL vs NHL data isn't really comparable IMO. There is absolutely no context to go with it.

All we know is that Ovechkin had vastly more hype surrounding his draft stock, but we are meant to believe he was trash in the RSL and couldn't have made the jump as a younger player? Something is way off here.

Qft means quoted for truth

 

[Atas2000]

Yeah, it's going to be a bit of a miracle if he scores over 100 points next season. But for Ovechkin nothing suggested either that he's going to score over 100 points when he entered NHL as rookie. It was crazy what he did on his first season in NHL, I quess nobody expected that much from him.

But yeah, you might be aswell right he will never reach that level, but I hope he does!

A certain team tried to bend the rules to draft Ovechkin a year earlier. That is how much they all expected him to be the next huge superstar. He never exceeded expectations, he met them. The expectations were sky high though. And he had to suffer dearly becauae of it. All the controversy about him not winning the cup was because that status he's got even before the draft(just like Crosby, Malkin and McDavid btw). Laine should be happy about not being hyped up that much. If he indeed surprises everyone - good for him and the Jets I guess.

 

[North Cole]

Qft means quoted for truth

LOL!! And therein lies my problem. I was like, forsure he is just agreeing with me? Time to study my acronyms....Sorry man