Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Randyne]

Yes it's just me.

wow Messier???
top10 PPG
Messier: 3,3,7,7,7,8,10,10
Ovechkin: 1,1,1,5,5,8,9,9
top10 GPG
Messier: 7,8
Ovechkin: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,5,5,6,8

 

[wetcoast]

Oh nice, a 4 year old hfboards opinion thread. Now that is quite substantial.

I don't agree with everything there but they do their due diligence on the HOH section of these boards, you should go read some threads there sometime you might actually learn something.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

I don't agree with everything there but they do their due diligence on the HOH section of these boards, you should go read some threads there sometime you might actually learn something.

You cited a 4 year old thread. OV has added 2 rockets and going on 200 more goals since that thread. It’s no longer even relevant to reflect their opinions.

 

[wetcoast]

wow Messier???
top10 PPG
Messier: 3,3,7,7,7,8,10,10
Ovechkin: 1,1,1,5,5,8,9,9
top10 GPG
Messier: 7,8
Ovechkin: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,3,5,5,6,8

They has Moose at 21 huge upset eh?

Also without reading the whole top 100 project my guess is that the playoff resume of Moose might be why and it's really disingenuous using top 10 finishes with Wayne and Mario don't you think?

Not that it matters but Moose was 2nd in scoring in 89-90 not 3rd.

 

[Randyne]

Not that it matters but Moose was 2nd in scoring in 89-90 not 3rd.

3rd by PPG (1st Lemieux, 2nd Gretzky)

1989-90 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the Eastern, Western Conference and Playoff series Standings, Statistics, Leaders and more for the 1989-90 NHL season on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Cups filled with HOFers are easy to get

 

[wetcoast]

3rd by PPG (1st Lemieux, 2nd Gretzky)

1989-90 NHL Summary | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the Eastern, Western Conference and Playoff series Standings, Statistics, Leaders and more for the 1989-90 NHL season on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

My bad I misread that but make sure to bring up PPG when discussing Ovi and the competition in his career then.

But then again that might be why Crosby was 12 on that poll and Ovi was 22nd.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Yes it's just me.

Top-100 Hockey Players of All-Time

Top-200 Hockey Players of All-Time The following is the final list of the top hockey players of all-time as determined by 32 voting members of the History of Hockey community. Report any errors to @quoipourquoi RankPlayerPositionBornNationBirth City 1Wayne GretzkyC1961CanadaBrantford...

forums.hfboards.com

Keep in mind Ovechkin was voted onto the list nearly four years ago now. I think his ranking in fall 2018 was reasonable, but he's added a lot since then. I don't know where he'd end up if the voting took place today, but it's inconceivable that he'd be out of the top 20 at this point.

 

[wetcoast]

Keep in mind Ovechkin was voted onto the list nearly four years ago now. I think his ranking in fall 2018 was reasonable, but he's added a lot since then. I don't know where he'd end up if the voting took place today, but it's inconceivable that he'd be out of the top 20 at this point.

Probably but then again I think someone could make a stronger more balanced argument that he would be closer to #20 than to #5 overall which was the start of this tangent.

He is around 15th for me today and depending on how people weigh peak, prime career, overall play ect that's where the nuance comes through.

Heck I'm not even sold that he is the 5th best winger of all time (he obviously has a strong case for it) but for me too much of his case is built on goals and it's obvious that he has had unique usage to get to that point as well as his skillset.

The usage is what is the sticking point for me as well as a bit of "not being a winner" somewhat like Jagr although that can be over stated at times prime example being Marcel Dionne.

 

[TJHKY]

 

[JasonRoseEh]

Him improving the rest of his overall game 100% made a difference the year they won,

No, it didn't, he was essentially the same player, putting up the same stats he just finally had some depth scoring and a goaltender who wasn't outplayed in every series they were in while collapsing in close out games. Ovechkin was nowhere near the player he was in his prime by the Cup run so your inference of him being better all around is why they won is utter nonsense.

Also Messier over Ovechkin even in 2018 is embarrassing for a poll of that nature, he had no case then and certainly doesn't have one now. Ovechkin is a consensus top 10 player along with Crosby and neither are done yet.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

No, it didn't, he was essentially the same player, putting up the same stats he just finally had some depth scoring and a goaltender who wasn't outplayed in every series they were in while collapsing in close out games. Ovechkin was nowhere near the player he was in his prime by the Cup run so your inference of him being better all around is why they won is utter nonsense.

Also Messier over Ovechkin even 2018 is embarrassing for a poll of that nature, he had no case then and certainly doesn't have one now. Ovechkin is a consensus top 10 player along with Crosby and neither are done yet.

cool man, Im not going to lie these are fairly old comments I just dont care anymore. Im done with this conversation.
but I disagree I found he developed a more overall game adding a defensive side he never had as a kid. agree disagree I dont give a shit,
Moving on

 

[norrisnick]

Probably but then again I think someone could make a stronger more balanced argument that he would be closer to #20 than to #5 overall which was the start of this tangent.

He is around 15th for me today and depending on how people weigh peak, prime career, overall play ect that's where the nuance comes through.

Heck I'm not even sold that he is the 5th best winger of all time (he obviously has a strong case for it) but for me too much of his case is built on goals and it's obvious that he has had unique usage to get to that point as well as his skillset.

The usage is what is the sticking point for me as well as a bit of "not being a winner" somewhat like Jagr although that can be over stated at times prime example being Marcel Dionne.

If a winger is focusing on something else above scoring goals, he's doing it wrong.

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

111 still a long ways away at 37 years old. We'll see.

 

[max21]

It can’t be stopped

 

[M2Beezy]

Unstoppable Force

 

[TJHKY]

 

[Nsjohnson]

111 still a long ways away at 37 years old. We'll see.

Yes we will all see.

But, if he scores 35 this year then that's 81 left.

Next year, if he scores 30, that's 51.

He could score 30 again, which we all expect, and be down to 21. And that's the season then, the season chasing 21, that he takes first place.

 

[BallardEra]

40 this season takes him to 820 and leaves him with 75 to beat the record so he’d have to average 25 goals a year over the last 3 years of his contract to get there.

 

[TJHKY]

 

[HurricaneFanatic]

I guess his demise was once again over exaggerated.

 

[Demon Wolf]

Probably but then again I think someone could make a stronger more balanced argument that he would be closer to #20 than to #5 overall which was the start of this tangent.

He is around 15th for me today and depending on how people weigh peak, prime career, overall play ect that's where the nuance comes through.

Heck I'm not even sold that he is the 5th best winger of all time (he obviously has a strong case for it) but for me too much of his case is built on goals and it's obvious that he has had unique usage to get to that point as well as his skillset.

The usage is what is the sticking point for me as well as a bit of "not being a winner" somewhat like Jagr although that can be over stated at times prime example being Marcel Dionne.

Alexander Ovechkin, third most goals in NHL HISTORY, doesn't make your top 5 wingers?

excuse me

 

[PlushMinus]

Probably but then again I think someone could make a stronger more balanced argument that he would be closer to #20 than to #5 overall which was the start of this tangent.

He is around 15th for me today and depending on how people weigh peak, prime career, overall play ect that's where the nuance comes through.

Heck I'm not even sold that he is the 5th best winger of all time (he obviously has a strong case for it) but for me too much of his case is built on goals and it's obvious that he has had unique usage to get to that point as well as his skillset.

The usage is what is the sticking point for me as well as a bit of "not being a winner" somewhat like Jagr although that can be over stated at times prime example being Marcel Dionne.

It is hilarious how much time you spend in this thread trying to shit on Ovechkin and push him down the list of All Time Greats.

Do you really have nothing better to do? Job, girlfriend / wife / family, social life? Nope?

 

[NatusVincere]

People seem to confuse career with prime or peak. If we are talking about career I have a hard time seeing Ovi not in the top 10 at minimum. His goal scoring dominance is Big 4 light. 9 Rockets are perfect in line with what Gretzky and Howe did and what Mario and Orr would have did if not for injuries. Except Ovi is of course not as dominant overall. But nevertheless from a individual standpoint maybe you can argue Hasek or Jagr had a “better” trophy case, but that’s it IMO (as of now). In no world 5 Wingers had a better career than Ovi.

For prime or better peak performance/talent for one game or a short period of time I would take maybe 4 Russians alone from the last 20/30 years over Ovechkin. Clearly I take peak Fedorov over peak Ovi. I would also take peak Malkin over peak Ovi. Maybe even peak Datsyuk and peak Bure (but both debatable in my eyes). IMO Ovi is not close to the most talented players ever. But he clearly has one of the absolute top individual careers ever. In my eyes with his goal scoring dominance as I said a light Big 4 and the deserved fifth place in the all time ranking.

 

[filinski77]

People seem to confuse career with prime or peak. If we are talking about career I have a hard time seeing Ovi not in the top 10 at minimum. His goal scoring dominance is Big 4 light. 9 Rockets are perfect in line with what Gretzky and Howe did and what Mario and Orr would have did if not for injuries. Except Ovi is of course not as dominant overall. But nevertheless from a individual standpoint maybe you can argue Hasek or Jagr had a “better” trophy case, but that’s it IMO (as of now). In no world 5 Wingers had a better career than Ovi.

For prime or better peak performance/talent for one game or a short period of time I would take maybe 4 Russians alone from the last 20/30 years over Ovechkin. Clearly I take peak Fedorov over peak Ovi. I would also take peak Malkin over peak Ovi. Maybe even peak Datsyuk and peak Bure (but both debatable in my eyes). IMO Ovi is not close to the most talented players ever. But he clearly has one of the absolute top individual careers ever. In my eyes with his goal scoring dominance as I said a light Big 4 and the deserved fifth place in the all time ranking.

Peak Ovechkin was 3 straight Lindsays, and leading the league in points/gp and goals/gp in all 3 of those years.

He arguably has the best peak since Lemieux and Jagr, yet you say he's the 5th best Russian peak? That's ludicrous.

 

[BallardEra]

Backstrom, Wilson, Oshie, Brown and Carlson all out hurt definitely won't help his cause.