Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

Hockey Outsider

Registered User
Jan 16, 2005
9,428
15,558
My orig point was how Gretzky has so few GWG's, looks like that 215 pt season he had a shockingly low 6 GWG's and got a lot of pts via blowouts
Gretzky got 215 points that year (the all-time record) but "only" 52 goals. 6 GWG on 52 goals isn't unusual.

His linemate Jari Kurri got 13 GWG's that year. Gretzky assisted on 12 of them (Oct 26, Nov 4, Nov 8, Nov 21, Nov 30, Dec 5, Jan 19, Jan 26, Jan 29, Feb 19, Mar 5, Mar 20). He also assisted on 5 of Paul Coffey's (Nov 17, Dec 19, Dec 26, Jan 21, Feb 22). Plus all 4 of Mike Krushelnyski's (Oct 16, Nov 24, Nov 27, Jan 28). And 2 of Glen Anderson's (Nov 2, Nov 29).

I haven't looked at every GWG the Oilers got. But just between Gretzky, and those four players, Gretzky scored or assisted on 6 + 23 = 29 GWG's that year. The Oilers won 49 games (11 were ties, which we don't have anymore). Gretzky scored/assisted on at least 59% of the Oilers' GWG's (and I haven't looked at every game). If anything, Gretzky was involved in more GWG's than we'd expect (which isn't surprising as Gretzky was probably the greatest "clutch" player of all-time).
 

pnep

Registered User
Mar 10, 2004
3,048
1,698
Novosibirsk,Russia
The Oilers won 49 games

huh?


Record: 56-17-7 (119 points),


1985-86 Edmonton Oilers GWGs

SeasongameidYearMonthDayPeriodTimeTeamPPSHENPSGoalAST1AST2
1985​
198510100EDM
1985​
10​
10​
311:55EDMCraig MacTavish
1985​
198510130EDM
1985​
10​
13​
300:41EDMEsa TikkanenMark Messier
1985​
198510160EDM
1985​
10​
16​
304:49EDMGlenn AndersonRaimo SummanenKevin McClelland
1985​
198510180EDM
1985​
10​
18​
209:35EDM
1​
Mark MessierWayne Gretzky
1985​
198510200LAK
1985​
10​
20​
200:55EDMRaimo SummanenMark MessierGlenn Anderson
1985​
198510250EDM
1985​
10​
25​
203:47EDM
1​
Wayne GretzkyLee Fogolin
1985​
198510280CGY
1985​
10​
28​
314:02EDM
1​
Mark MessierWayne GretzkyGlenn Anderson
1985​
198510300EDM
1985​
10​
30​
215:13EDMJari KurriWayne GretzkySteve Smith
1985​
198511030EDM
1985​
11​
3​
114:05EDMMark NapierDave SemenkoCraig MacTavish
1985​
198511050VAN
1985​
11​
5​
311:41EDMJari KurriMike KrushelnyskiCharlie Huddy
1985​
198511080EDM
1985​
11​
8​
102:36EDMRaimo SummanenCraig MacTavishSteve Smith
1985​
198511170NYR
1985​
11​
17​
1OT02:06EDMMark NapierWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198511190QUE
1985​
11​
19​
319:21EDMGlenn AndersonDave SemenkoCharlie Huddy
1985​
198511200MTL
1985​
11​
20​
1OT00:42EDMMark MessierMark NapierCraig MacTavish
1985​
198511230EDM
1985​
11​
23​
207:17EDMMark NapierCraig MacTavishDave Hunter
1985​
198511300EDM
1985​
11​
30​
217:04EDM
1​
Mark MessierPaul CoffeyMike Krushelnyski
1985​
198512010EDM
1985​
12​
1​
207:59EDM
1​
Craig MacTavishWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198512030LAK
1985​
12​
3​
305:24EDMJari KurriPaul CoffeyCharlie Huddy
1985​
198512070EDM
1985​
12​
7​
210:48EDMGlenn AndersonPaul Coffey
1985​
198512080EDM
1985​
12​
8​
204:09EDMMarty McSorleyKevin McClellandDave Hunter
1985​
198512110CBH
1985​
12​
11​
219:50EDMGlenn AndersonWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198512130WIN
1985​
12​
13​
315:29EDMRaimo SummanenCraig MacTavish
1985​
198512150EDM
1985​
12​
15​
302:46EDMDave HunterMarty McSorleyWayne Gretzky
1985​
198512200EDM
1985​
12​
20​
206:40EDM
1​
Jari KurriWayne Gretzky
1985​
198512290VAN
1985​
12​
29​
119:01EDMRaimo SummanenKevin McClellandCharlie Huddy
1985​
198512310EDM
1985​
12​
31​
308:17EDMWayne GretzkyJari KurriCharlie Huddy
1985​
198601020CGY
1986​
1​
2​
210:34EDMKevin McClellandMarty McSorleyRaimo Summanen
1985​
198601040EDM
1986​
1​
4​
214:48EDMDave LumleyRaimo SummanenGord Sherven
1985​
198601050EDM
1986​
1​
5​
110:41EDM
1​
Glenn AndersonPaul CoffeyWayne Gretzky
1985​
198601110MTL
1986​
1​
11​
214:10EDMPaul CoffeyMark NapierGlenn Anderson
1985​
198601130BOS
1986​
1​
13​
208:13EDM
1​
Mark MessierGlenn AndersonPaul Coffey
1985​
198601150HAR
1986​
1​
15​
206:44EDMWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198601240EDM
1986​
1​
24​
1OT01:29EDMWayne Gretzky
1985​
198601250EDM
1986​
1​
25​
216:57EDMMike KrushelnyskiWayne GretzkyJari Kurri
1985​
198601270CBH
1986​
1​
27​
316:58EDMGlenn AndersonMark Napier
1985​
198601310EDM
1986​
1​
31​
308:09EDM
1​
Glenn AndersonWayne GretzkyMark Messier
1985​
198602060NJD
1986​
2​
6​
317:47EDMCraig MacTavishJari KurriLee Fogolin
1985​
198602110DET
1986​
2​
11​
311:50EDMJari KurriWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198602140EDM
1986​
2​
14​
204:50EDM
1​
Mark Napier
1985​
198602160EDM
1986​
2​
16​
318:42EDM
1​
Steve SmithPaul CoffeyMark Messier
1985​
198602190EDM
1986​
2​
19​
214:31EDM
1​
Wayne GretzkyMark Messier
1985​
198602240EDM
1986​
2​
24​
202:48EDMCraig MacTavishPaul CoffeyMark Napier
1985​
198602260WIN
1986​
2​
26​
113:23EDMMark MessierWayne GretzkyCharlie Huddy
1985​
198603020EDM
1986​
3​
2​
1OT01:29EDMJari Kurri
1985​
198603040VAN
1986​
3​
4​
218:07EDMJari KurriWayne GretzkyDave Hunter
1985​
198603050EDM
1986​
3​
5​
216:19EDM
1​
Wayne GretzkyPaul CoffeyRandy Gregg
1985​
198603070EDM
1986​
3​
7​
311:49EDMCraig MacTavishGlenn Anderson
1985​
198603090LAK
1986​
3​
9​
208:40EDMGlenn AndersonMark MessierLee Fogolin
1985​
198603120WIN
1986​
3​
12​
302:38EDMEsa TikkanenPaul CoffeyKevin McClelland
1985​
198603140EDM
1986​
3​
14​
116:15EDMPaul CoffeyMark NapierLee Fogolin
1985​
198603180EDM
1986​
3​
18​
201:51EDM
1​
Glenn AndersonPaul CoffeyMark Messier
1985​
198603210EDM
1986​
3​
21​
1OT01:36EDMJari KurriWayne Gretzky
1985​
198603250DET
1986​
3​
25​
208:43EDM
1​
Mark MessierPaul Coffey
1985​
198603260PIT
1986​
3​
26​
211:51EDMMarty McSorleyKevin McClellandEsa Tikkanen
1985​
198604020EDM
1986​
4​
2​
204:09EDMKevin McClellandEsa TikkanenMarty McSorley
1985​
198604060VAN
1986​
4​
6​
316:26EDM
1​
Jari Kurri




Wayne Gretzky:

6 GWG + 15 GWAST = 21 GWPTS
 
  • Like
Reactions: barbu

Nathaniel Skywalker

DIG IN!!! RiGHT NOW!!!
Oct 18, 2013
14,180
5,825
from the age of 24 to 35. Ovechkin never once hit 90 points. let that sink in before you compare him to Mario

Not really. A few people supported this assertion. As a goalie, Hasek had greater impact on the game than Lemieux.
say that to both of lemieuxs all time great smythe runs and no a 199 point Lemieux has a much greater impact
 

Hockey Outsider

Registered User
Jan 16, 2005
9,428
15,558
huh?


Record: 56-17-7 (119 points),


1985-86 Edmonton Oilers GWGs

SeasongameidYearMonthDayPeriodTimeTeamPPSHENPSGoalAST1AST2
1985​
198510100EDM
1985​
10​
10​
311:55EDMCraig MacTavish
1985​
198510130EDM
1985​
10​
13​
300:41EDMEsa TikkanenMark Messier
1985​
198510160EDM
1985​
10​
16​
304:49EDMGlenn AndersonRaimo SummanenKevin McClelland
1985​
198510180EDM
1985​
10​
18​
209:35EDM
1​
Mark MessierWayne Gretzky
1985​
198510200LAK
1985​
10​
20​
200:55EDMRaimo SummanenMark MessierGlenn Anderson
1985​
198510250EDM
1985​
10​
25​
203:47EDM
1​
Wayne GretzkyLee Fogolin
1985​
198510280CGY
1985​
10​
28​
314:02EDM
1​
Mark MessierWayne GretzkyGlenn Anderson
1985​
198510300EDM
1985​
10​
30​
215:13EDMJari KurriWayne GretzkySteve Smith
1985​
198511030EDM
1985​
11​
3​
114:05EDMMark NapierDave SemenkoCraig MacTavish
1985​
198511050VAN
1985​
11​
5​
311:41EDMJari KurriMike KrushelnyskiCharlie Huddy
1985​
198511080EDM
1985​
11​
8​
102:36EDMRaimo SummanenCraig MacTavishSteve Smith
1985​
198511170NYR
1985​
11​
17​
1OT02:06EDMMark NapierWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198511190QUE
1985​
11​
19​
319:21EDMGlenn AndersonDave SemenkoCharlie Huddy
1985​
198511200MTL
1985​
11​
20​
1OT00:42EDMMark MessierMark NapierCraig MacTavish
1985​
198511230EDM
1985​
11​
23​
207:17EDMMark NapierCraig MacTavishDave Hunter
1985​
198511300EDM
1985​
11​
30​
217:04EDM
1​
Mark MessierPaul CoffeyMike Krushelnyski
1985​
198512010EDM
1985​
12​
1​
207:59EDM
1​
Craig MacTavishWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198512030LAK
1985​
12​
3​
305:24EDMJari KurriPaul CoffeyCharlie Huddy
1985​
198512070EDM
1985​
12​
7​
210:48EDMGlenn AndersonPaul Coffey
1985​
198512080EDM
1985​
12​
8​
204:09EDMMarty McSorleyKevin McClellandDave Hunter
1985​
198512110CBH
1985​
12​
11​
219:50EDMGlenn AndersonWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198512130WIN
1985​
12​
13​
315:29EDMRaimo SummanenCraig MacTavish
1985​
198512150EDM
1985​
12​
15​
302:46EDMDave HunterMarty McSorleyWayne Gretzky
1985​
198512200EDM
1985​
12​
20​
206:40EDM
1​
Jari KurriWayne Gretzky
1985​
198512290VAN
1985​
12​
29​
119:01EDMRaimo SummanenKevin McClellandCharlie Huddy
1985​
198512310EDM
1985​
12​
31​
308:17EDMWayne GretzkyJari KurriCharlie Huddy
1985​
198601020CGY
1986​
1​
2​
210:34EDMKevin McClellandMarty McSorleyRaimo Summanen
1985​
198601040EDM
1986​
1​
4​
214:48EDMDave LumleyRaimo SummanenGord Sherven
1985​
198601050EDM
1986​
1​
5​
110:41EDM
1​
Glenn AndersonPaul CoffeyWayne Gretzky
1985​
198601110MTL
1986​
1​
11​
214:10EDMPaul CoffeyMark NapierGlenn Anderson
1985​
198601130BOS
1986​
1​
13​
208:13EDM
1​
Mark MessierGlenn AndersonPaul Coffey
1985​
198601150HAR
1986​
1​
15​
206:44EDMWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198601240EDM
1986​
1​
24​
1OT01:29EDMWayne Gretzky
1985​
198601250EDM
1986​
1​
25​
216:57EDMMike KrushelnyskiWayne GretzkyJari Kurri
1985​
198601270CBH
1986​
1​
27​
316:58EDMGlenn AndersonMark Napier
1985​
198601310EDM
1986​
1​
31​
308:09EDM
1​
Glenn AndersonWayne GretzkyMark Messier
1985​
198602060NJD
1986​
2​
6​
317:47EDMCraig MacTavishJari KurriLee Fogolin
1985​
198602110DET
1986​
2​
11​
311:50EDMJari KurriWayne GretzkyPaul Coffey
1985​
198602140EDM
1986​
2​
14​
204:50EDM
1​
Mark Napier
1985​
198602160EDM
1986​
2​
16​
318:42EDM
1​
Steve SmithPaul CoffeyMark Messier
1985​
198602190EDM
1986​
2​
19​
214:31EDM
1​
Wayne GretzkyMark Messier
1985​
198602240EDM
1986​
2​
24​
202:48EDMCraig MacTavishPaul CoffeyMark Napier
1985​
198602260WIN
1986​
2​
26​
113:23EDMMark MessierWayne GretzkyCharlie Huddy
1985​
198603020EDM
1986​
3​
2​
1OT01:29EDMJari Kurri
1985​
198603040VAN
1986​
3​
4​
218:07EDMJari KurriWayne GretzkyDave Hunter
1985​
198603050EDM
1986​
3​
5​
216:19EDM
1​
Wayne GretzkyPaul CoffeyRandy Gregg
1985​
198603070EDM
1986​
3​
7​
311:49EDMCraig MacTavishGlenn Anderson
1985​
198603090LAK
1986​
3​
9​
208:40EDMGlenn AndersonMark MessierLee Fogolin
1985​
198603120WIN
1986​
3​
12​
302:38EDMEsa TikkanenPaul CoffeyKevin McClelland
1985​
198603140EDM
1986​
3​
14​
116:15EDMPaul CoffeyMark NapierLee Fogolin
1985​
198603180EDM
1986​
3​
18​
201:51EDM
1​
Glenn AndersonPaul CoffeyMark Messier
1985​
198603210EDM
1986​
3​
21​
1OT01:36EDMJari KurriWayne Gretzky
1985​
198603250DET
1986​
3​
25​
208:43EDM
1​
Mark MessierPaul Coffey
1985​
198603260PIT
1986​
3​
26​
211:51EDMMarty McSorleyKevin McClellandEsa Tikkanen
1985​
198604020EDM
1986​
4​
2​
204:09EDMKevin McClellandEsa TikkanenMarty McSorley
1985​
198604060VAN
1986​
4​
6​
316:26EDM
1​
Jari Kurri




Wayne Gretzky:

6 GWG + 15 GWAST = 21 GWPTS

Good catch. I was looking at the 1984-85 team.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CDN24

Zuluss

Registered User
May 19, 2011
2,462
2,110
from the age of 24 to 35. Ovechkin never once hit 90 points. let that sink in before you compare him to Mario

From Ovechkin's age 26 to Ovechkin's age 31, a total of six players finished with 90+ points (they were all different players, btw). Essentially, during that time frame, 90 points was a career season even for great players like Giroux or Stamkos.

When Lemieux was in his prime in 1992-93, a total of 31 players topped 90 points. In one single season.

6 90-point players over the span of 6 seasons vs. 31 90-point players in one single season.

Let that sink in.
 

Randyne

Registered User
May 20, 2012
1,262
2,024
from the age of 24 to 35. Ovechkin never once hit 90 points. let that sink in before you compare him to Mario
At 24 yo it was 2009-10 season with 109 points in 72 games.
So it's pretty comparable.
Awards from 24 to 35:
Ovechkin 1 Hart; 1 TL; 1 Smythe; 7 Rockets = 10
Mario 2 Harts; 2 TL; 2 Smythe; 1 Rocket; 4 Ross = 11
NHL was too cruel to young Ovechkin and he could easily won another Ross, Rocket and Hart at 24 yo.
If Ovi had the same attitude as Sid has, then Ovechkin's trophy case would be with 22 awards second to only Gretzky.
 
Last edited:

Toby91ca

Registered User
Oct 17, 2022
2,447
1,811
From Ovechkin's age 26 to Ovechkin's age 31, a total of six players finished with 90+ points (they were all different players, btw). Essentially, during that time frame, 90 points was a career season even for great players like Giroux or Stamkos.

When Lemieux was in his prime in 1992-93, a total of 31 players topped 90 points. In one single season.

6 90-point players over the span of 6 seasons vs. 31 90-point players in one single season.

Let that sink in.
The prior guy suggested a long stretch between 24-35, why did you narrow it and then compare to a single year of Lemieux when scoring was the highest?

Using the original guy's period, while Ovechkin never scored 90pts during that period, if you adjust for the 3 shortened years, he would have done it once in 12/13....but it would have been done 67 times by 32 other guys during that period.

Not really sure what the overall point was though. When I look for bona fide superstars or all-time greats, I look for guys that are consistently near the top year after year, not just one year or two. Crosby, for example seemed to be in the top 5, or even top 3 scoring every single year.....I think if you take away the big injury years, he's there I think every single year of his career except last year maybe. It's the same with Ovechkin and goal scoring....he did have one spectacular year, but other than that, he's not blowing the competition out of the water on a yearly basis. Where he is blowing people out of the water is his ability to be there almost every single year over a long period of time....that's something that rarely happens.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wetcoast

Toby91ca

Registered User
Oct 17, 2022
2,447
1,811
At 24 yo it was 2009-10 season with 109 points in 72 games.
So it's pretty comparable.
Awards from 24 to 35:
Ovechkin 1 Hart; 1 TL; 1 Smythe; 7 Rockets = 10
Mario 2 Harts; 2 TL; 2 Smythe; 1 Rocket; 4 Ross = 11
NHL was too cruel to young Ovechkin and he could easily won another Ross, Rocket and Hart at 24 yo.
If Ovi had the same attitude as Sid has, then Ovechkin's trophy case would be with 22 awards second to only Gretzky.
what does this mean?
 

MacMacandBarbie

Registered User
Dec 9, 2019
2,921
1,924
say that to both of lemieuxs all time great smythe runs and no a 199 point Lemieux has a much greater impact
Hasek has almost as many Harts as Lemieux does…as a goalie. Let that sink in. If you look at how they dominated their relative positions, Hasek is easily as valuable as Lemieux. He won 6 Vezinas in 8 years, during a time that both Roy and Brodeur were in the league.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Panteras

Sentinel

Registered User
May 26, 2009
13,233
5,043
New Jersey
www.vvinenglish.com
from the age of 24 to 35. Ovechkin never once hit 90 points. let that sink in before you compare him to Mario


say that to both of lemieuxs all time great smythe runs and no a 199 point Lemieux has a much greater impact
Say that to Hasek's two consecutive Harts.

In his 199 point season, Lemieux was second to both Gretzky (in Hart votes) and Yzerman (in Lindsay votes). In his two Hart seasons Hasek was second to nobody.
 

filinski77

Registered User
Feb 12, 2017
2,677
4,411
The prior guy suggested a long stretch between 24-35, why did you narrow it and then compare to a single year of Lemieux when scoring was the highest?
It's because Nathaniel is pretty well-known for making fallacious arguments that lack serious context.

Using the # of times that someone hit 90 points is a useless argument if you completely ignore the difference in the scoring rates in those periods.
 

JasonRoseEh

Registered User
Oct 23, 2018
2,933
2,347
took him like 13 years to develop a 2way game. I considered his offensive only style very selfish.
once he started to care about the rest of the game he got even better and he finally won the Stanley Cup


Right on, love the attention keep it coming.
a like is a like
He didn't win a Cup because he suddenly became a 2 way player, he won a Cup because he finally got a team to show up around him in the playoffs.

I was more talking about his overall defensive play, took him a long time to improve in that area and shortly after they won a cup
in his early years it was almost like he thought he could just out score his teams defensive issues.
The Capitals defensive issues had absolutely zero to do with Ovechkin and there hasn't been a player that was a bigger threat to break the zone and score since prime Ovi.
 

WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
31,057
19,942
Mario didn't even hit 700 goals and has nobody but to blame but himself for his piss poor conditioning IMO.
 

Arthur Morgan

Registered User
Jul 6, 2016
8,881
6,195
Toronto
www.youtube.com
He didn't win a Cup because he suddenly became a 2 way player, he won a Cup because he finally got a team to show up around him in the playoffs.


The Capitals defensive issues had absolutely zero to do with Ovechkin and there hasn't been a player that was a bigger threat to break the zone and score since prime Ovi.
Him improving the rest of his overall game 100% made a difference the year they won,
 

Arthur Morgan

Registered User
Jul 6, 2016
8,881
6,195
Toronto
www.youtube.com
Certainly helped that the other stars on his team didn't vanish like Semin and Green did in the playoffs.
the way she goes. either it doesnt matter Washington got their Cup but imo for Ovechkin to have a shot at top 5 he needs another Cup and to beat Gretzky's record which seems its just a matter of time.
also top 5 all time comes down to opinion alot of the time.
 

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
24,634
11,529
the way she goes. either it doesnt matter Washington got their Cup but imo for Ovechkin to have a shot at top 5 he needs another Cup and to beat Gretzky's record which seems its just a matter of time.
also top 5 all time comes down to opinion alot of the time.

As an overall player Ovi has zero argument for top 5 all time, being in the mix for 6ish to 10,15,20ish is still an amazing accomplishment though.

The Gretzky milestone thing isn't going to change that as people are watching him play this year and since his peak 3 years his career among the elite best of all time is nothing to write home about other than the goal scoring but that also comes with context.

I'm surprised there isn't more coverage about this one. This is a huge milestone and there's been very little talk about it (outside of a few threads on this site).
His play so far this year overall is going to keep the hard core base celebrating "quietly" no doubt eh?
 
  • Haha
Reactions: JasonRoseEh

wetcoast

Registered User
Nov 20, 2018
24,634
11,529
You just don’t know hockey if you think you can name 20 players more impressive than the greatest goal scorer of all time.
Yes it's just me.


I'll also clarify that people can make their own arguments and juggle the guys around after the big 4 but there are strong arguments for anyone making a list that has Ovi around 20th as well.

Like I said up thread outside of his 3 year peak his resume doesn't stack up that well to other guys in the argument for 6th to 20ish aside from goals and even with goals some context won't necessarily help Ovi's case either.

Also it's funny that your replay goes to my knowledge of hockey yet you nothing nothing about me and kind of totally avoid my posting history but that seems to be par for the course for the faithful.
 

MacMacandBarbie

Registered User
Dec 9, 2019
2,921
1,924
Yes it's just me.

Oh nice, a 4 year old hfboards opinion thread. Now that is quite substantial. :sarcasm:
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad