Ovechkin milestone thread - 850 and Beyond!

[Fantomas]

And I can’t understand why either of you get so upset about the idea of Bossy being among the greatest goal scorers ever.

Forget the raw totals, forget the abundance of 50 goal seasons, forget the so-called shitshow that a player has no control over playing when they do.

During the time frame of Bossy’s career, he scored the most goals among any player. Now of course, Gretzky didn’t play in those first two seasons, yet only trailed by 30 goals while playing 120 fewer games.

Bossy scored 24.3%, 51.6%, and 55.3% more than the next closest competitors.

If we want to get really weird about it, during the 22 straight seasons that the average GPG was 3.20 or higher (1972-1973 through 1993-1994), Bossy scored the 4th most goals among all players. He didn’t play the first 5 seasons and final 7 seasons of that stretch and played 300-500 fewer games than the three players ahead of him.

How is one of the 5-10 greatest goal scorers in a 100+ year old league not a generational one? Both of you getting likes for these comments is really sad.

Ovechkin is chasing down the all-time record. Really sick of the weird desire to pull down Bossy in the meantime.

No one's denying that Bossy is a great goalscorer. You're not really engaging with what I'm saying.

Bossy is a great scorer in the same way Stamkos and Iginla are great goal scorers. But not in the same way Gretzky, Ovechkin and Lemieux are great goal scorers.

It's that simple.

 

[Video Nasty]

No one's denying that Bossy is a great goalscorer. You're not really engaging with what I'm saying.

Bossy is a great scorer in the same way Stamkos and Iginla are great goal scorers. But not in the same way Gretzky, Ovechkin and Lemieux are great goal scorers.

It's that simple.

No, at worst, he’s in between both sets of players you mentioned. Certainly better than Iginla. Stamkos could have been better.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Bossy is clearly ahead of Iginla as a goal-scorer. The biggest difference is consistency. Iginla had four seasons as a historically good goal-scorer (2002, 2004, 2008 and 2011). Believe it or not, outside of those four seasons, he never again placed in the top ten. He had way too many seasons hovering around 30-35 goals (still good, but out of the top ten). Bossy, despite having a much shorter career, placed in the top ten nine years in a row (and he was in the top five eight times). With Bossy, you know what you were going to get. With Iginla, you didn't.

In the regular season, in terms of goal-scoring, there's very little separating Bossy and Stamkos. But there's a vast difference in their playoff resumes. They played nearly the same number of games (129 vs 123), but Bossy almost doubled Stamkos' production (85 vs 45). We need to consider the context (since Bossy played in a higher scoring era), but even after taking that into account, the Islander is way ahead.

Strictly as a goal-scorer, I rank Bossy around 8th all-time. Stamkos is somewhere in the top 20 (a disappointing playoff resume hurts). I'm not sure where I'd rank Iginla, probably in the top 30.

 

[Fantomas]

No, at worst, he’s in between both sets of players you mentioned. Certainly better than Iginla. Stamkos could have been better.

The numbers disagree with you.

 

[Fantomas]

Bossy is clearly ahead of Iginla as a goal-scorer. The biggest difference is consistency. Iginla had four seasons as a historically good goal-scorer (2002, 2004, 2008 and 2011). Believe it or not, outside of those four seasons, he never again placed in the top ten. He had way too many seasons hovering around 30-35 goals (still good, but out of the top ten). Bossy, despite having a much shorter career, placed in the top ten nine years in a row (and he was in the top five eight times). With Bossy, you know what you were going to get. With Iginla, you didn't.

Look at how many Europeans are on the lists with Iginla and then compare how many of them are on the lists with Bossy. It's just a much deeper league, more global, more competition, way harder to be top-5, let alone #1.

A great scorer transcends his generation, I really believe that. But in full context, there's no reason to believe that Bossy is on a different tier than Iginla. When one does a proper adjustment, Iginla's best scoring season (01-02) is better than anything Bossy did.

 

[Hippasus]

Not disputing the analysis, but seems odd. Bossy played in the league for 10 years, Gretzky was in the league for 8 of those years and our scored Bossy by about 100 goals over that time period. Agree with conclusion that Bossy is one of the best though

If I recall correctly, it was sort of how Ovechkin shot up that list, through consistent domination of peers. I.e. prime rather than peak. Gretzky was one of the great peak goal scorers. I'll try and dig it up and post it here over this long weekend. Monday is a holiday here in the States.

 

[KoozNetsOff 92]

GOAT goal scorers

Tier 1: OV, Bobby Hull, Lemieux, Gretzky

Tier 1.5: Howe, Richard

Tier 2: Bossy, Brett Hull, Selanne, Bure, Esposito, Stamkos

 

[BallardEra]

 

[Hippasus]

Not disputing the analysis, but seems odd. Bossy played in the league for 10 years, Gretzky was in the league for 8 of those years and our scored Bossy by about 100 goals over that time period. Agree with conclusion that Bossy is one of the best though

I got the study. Bossy has seven data points while Gretzky has five. The tallies are ratios for individual seasons:

Bossy 11.904
Gretzky 10.333

I briefly described my methodology already, but I can fill in the details if anyone wants.

By the way, at the time I did the study, Bossy was 7th and Gretzky 10th in all-time positions. I don't think those places would have changed since then.

 

[BallardEra]

Bedard is on the bandwagon too:

"I think he gets it. Two years I give him, but yeah, it's pretty crazy that he's scored that many goals," Bedard said. "I mean, just to kind of be watching it in the past couple years, obviously got 800, and then you know, passed Howe and everything, so it's just pretty cool to see. If he breaks it, it's special for the whole game."

 

[Randyne]

Top 10 best adjusted seasons by goals for each of 15 best goalscoring players:

 

[Arthur Morgan]

OV is the greatest player ever cause goals are the only thing that matter.

People who don’t understand that there are more assists than goals in a game don’t understand the value of goals.

As OV climbs toward 895 we should be on alert for serious debates about a ‘big 5’

Did I miss anything fam?

lol well think what you want but Gretzky has more assists then the 2nd all time player's total points and then you include his 894 goals too

 

[Paddyjack]

lol well think what you want but Gretzky has more assists then the 2nd all time player's total points and then you include his 894 goals too

This was true during a single season too. He would have won the award title in several seasons just by getting his assists, while he was racking 80+ goals at the same time lol

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Top 10 best adjusted seasons by goals for each of 15 best goalscoring players:

View attachment 741591

who adjusted these stats and how do you know they are correct?

 

[Randyne]

who adjusted these stats and how do you know they are correct?

Alex Ovechkin Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Alex Ovechkin. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Wayne Gretzky Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Wayne Gretzky. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

etc. for each player
tables sorted by adj.goals

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Alex Ovechkin Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Alex Ovechkin. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Wayne Gretzky Stats, Height, Weight, Position, Salary, Title | Hockey-Reference.com

Checkout the latest stats of Wayne Gretzky. Get info about his position, age, height, weight, trade, draft, salary and more on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

etc. for each player
tables sorted by adj.goals

sorry Ive spent like last 5mins looking at that page to figure out how to do that and I cant figure it out so I dunno

 

[Randyne]

sorry Ive spent like last 5mins looking at that page to figure out how to do that and I cant figure it out so I dunno

here

 

[Arthur Morgan]

here
View attachment 741708

not sure why I couldnt find this lol thanks

 

[Midnight Judges]

Top 10 best adjusted seasons by goals for each of 15 best goalscoring players:

View attachment 741753

As much of a complete ass kicking as this is, it’s substantially larger for top 15 seasons.

 

[Randyne]

As much of a complete ass kicking as this is, it’s substantially larger for top 15 seasons.

Yes. The gap between Ovechkin and the rest only increases with more seasons. If make 18 seasons (current Ovi career) the gap = 157 goals between him (1st) and Howe (2nd).
I picked 10 season to show Bossy and Bure too. Someone thinks they are better than Ovi...

 

[kugelbahn]

Happy 38th birthday OV!

Fun Fact:
OV has 822 Goals in 1347 Games, which is 0.6102 GPG as 38yo.
Great One had 892 Goals in 1462 Games, which is 0.6101 GPG when he turned 38.
Both are exactly at 50 Goals in 82 Games pace at same age over career!!!

 

[Fallschirmyager]

Happy 38th birthday OV!

Fun Fact:
OV has 822 Goals in 1347 Games, which is 0.6102 GPG as 38yo.
Great One had 892 Goals in 1462 Games, which is 0.6101 GPG when he turned 38.
Both are exactly at 50 Goals in 82 Games pace at same age over career!!!

That's amazing at face value but even more so considering Gretzky's numbers are seriously front loaded in his career while Ovi's has been mor or less a consistent plateau from start to finish.

 

[TJHKY]

Season 19 for Great 8

https://x.com/capitals/status/1704490187085013422?s=46

 

[BallardEra]

Season 19 for Great 8

https://x.com/capitals/status/1704490187085013422?s=46

Pretty crazy that him and Sid are still here for season #19.

I think Ovechkin walks away when his current 3 year deal is up after season #21.

 

[TJHKY]