Proposal: Ottawa-Edmonton Blockbuster

[Drozko]

You're wrong. You've said Karlsson relies too much on the PP when every Senators fan in the thread said that his strength is ES. Karlsson's speed & IQ is among the best in the league and while I do believe McDavid is going to be the best player in the league, the difference isn't Mark Stone.

Also, take a look at the reply I posted about the PP production. You have absolutely no clue about the way Karlsson plays, not a single Sens fan should/will take offense to the fact that McDavid has higher value. From what you've posted in this thread, it's clear you don't watch any Senators games.

Ive watched enough to know he gets
Quite a few assists off of point shots and has a laser first pass and he is not at all physical. Never said karlsson hockey iq is low it's just not as good as McDavid's. McDavid's iq is gretzky esc as where karlssons just isn't. Orr was a better goal scorer and drove the net as where EK relies on his point shot and gets the occasional high slot.

There are more similarities in McDavid's game to gretzky than eks to orr

 

[Drozko]

Crosby:
938 Points (349 on PP) = 37% of his points on the PP

Thornton:
1341 Points (480 on PP) = 35% of his points on the PP

Ovechkin:
966 Points (379 on PP) = 39% of his points on the PP

Lemieux (Excluding first three seasons):
1375 Points (564 on PP) = 41% of his points on the PP

Karlsson:
385 Points (150 on PP) = 39% of his points on the PP

Can you try another argument that I can destroy. From what I understood, neither of these five players are generational because their production relies too much on the PP. I'm not one the posters who pushes for Karlsson to be known a generational player but I do believe he will be by the end of his career. His production blows all defensemen out of the water and he relies on the PP less than any top offensive defenseman.

Don't see orr or gretzky in there. You had to exclude seasons on your lemieux point. EK was terrible in his first few seasons as I rec all as where mcd crosby gretzky etc were lights out. Crosby also had a season where more than 50 percent of production came off the power play. How many generational talents do you know of had to be brought along ? None Karlsson was garbage in year 1 and 2 that not generational. Karlsson is a pylon to McD.

 

[Hutz]

EK was terrible in his first few seasons as I rec all

You rec all incorrectly. While his defensive game was wanting and he has vastly improved since his first season, there was never a point where anyone ought to have described him as terrible. As a d-man defensive lapses are more noticeable, but I don't rec all anyone nominating Gretzky, Lemieux, or McDavid for the Selke award in their rookie seasons.

 

[jmichael7753*]

McDavid's value is severely overrated on these boards. For a guy that will never eclipse 100 points you wouldn't trade him for Karlsson and Stone? Wow. Edmonton Fans. wow

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Don't see orr or gretzky in there. You had to exclude seasons on your lemieux point. EK was terrible in his first few seasons as I rec all as where mcd crosby gretzky etc were lights out. Crosby also had a season where more than 50 percent of production came off the power play. How many generational talents do you know of had to be brought along ? None Karlsson was garbage in year 1 and 2 that not generational. Karlsson is a pylon to McD.

You realize that Karlsson led his team in ice time as a rookie in the playoffs?

i guess only garbage players can do that

 

[NyQuil]

McDavid's value is severely overrated on these boards. For a guy that will never eclipse 100 points you wouldn't trade him for Karlsson and Stone? Wow. Edmonton Fans. wow

It's a bit early to say that, no?

 

[garyturner3]

McDavid's value is severely overrated on these boards. For a guy that will never eclipse 100 points you wouldn't trade him for Karlsson and Stone? Wow. Edmonton Fans. wow

What a ridiculous statement. Check back in 9 months. I wouldn't be surprised if it happens that quickly based on what we saw last year. But either way, I can't see any way (barring injury) it doesn't happen by the time he's 22.

 

[KevinRedkey]

McDavid's value is severely overrated on these boards. For a guy that will never eclipse 100 points you wouldn't trade him for Karlsson and Stone? Wow. Edmonton Fans. wow

I'd bet McDavid wins the Art Ross and/or hits 100 points in the 16/17 regular season. I believe he's that good already.

 

[Randy Randerson]

McDavid's value is severely overrated on these boards. For a guy that will never eclipse 100 points you wouldn't trade him for Karlsson and Stone? Wow. Edmonton Fans. wow

He paced for 87pts in his first year with a shambles team around him that finished 2nd last. His team keeps piling on top picks, so he'll likely have one of the better supporting casts in the NHL for the prime of his career. Every serious hockey fan has known his name since he was 14, and the last time that a prospect of his level didn't hit 100pts at least once in his career was Alexander Daigle, and that might be the only one ever. McDavid has already shown that his game translates to the NHL like Daigle never did, so if you're looking at historical evidence, McDavid would be the first generational prospect to not "bust" and not hit 100pts at least once in his career.

Edit: I am not an Edmonton fan, just pointing out that if that comment was serious, its really really not smart

 

[OConnellsProtege]

He paced for 87pts in his first year with a shambles team around him that finished 2nd last. His team keeps piling on top picks, so he'll likely have one of the better supporting casts in the NHL for the prime of his career. Every serious hockey fan has known his name since he was 14, and the last time a prospect that a prospect of his level didn't hit 100pts at least once in his career was Alexander Daigle, and that might be the only one ever. McDavid has already shown that his game translates to the NHL like Daigle never did, so if you're looking at historical evidence, McDavid would be the first generational prospect to not "bust" and not hit 100pts at least once in his career.

Edit: I am not an Edmonton fan, just pointing out that if that comment was serious, its really really not smart

Not an Edmonton fan myself and I second this. He might be the best player in the league already and I am dead serious when I say that. There's only two or three players in this league's history I have seen with that skill set at that age and he's only going to get better.

 

[rick hawk]

Not an Edmonton fan myself and I second this. He might be the best player in the league already and I am dead serious when I say that. There's only two or three players in this league's history I have seen with that skill set at that age and he's only going to get better.

I agree with every word. Only a fool would consider trading McDavid right now.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Easy pass from Ottawa

 

[winnipegger]

Mcdavid symbolizes hope for Edmonton at the end of all of their struggles. No way they trade him, it's pretty much just emotional at this point.

That and he's probably already the best player in the league? I wouldn't do it

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Mcdavid symbolizes hope for Edmonton at the end of all of their struggles. No way they trade him, it's pretty much just emotional at this point.

That and he's probably already the best player in the league? I wouldn't do it

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

on ice, as is, yes. But McDavid would put the Sens on the map, league wide. He'd attract the best UFAs available, and eventually he'd make his version of the Sens better than the Karlsson version. Bottom line is the Sens as is and the Oilers as is, both are no where near good enough. These teams are not contenders at this point. Changes/additions are needed before either team becomes a true contender.

It's not like Karlsson is a nobody. He's probably one of the top 5 players in the league and I doubt getting McDavid instead would change anything for Ottawa in that regard. Maybe TSN would give them more coverage but media coverage is not Ottawa's problem.

 

[OConnellsProtege]

Excellent retort. I have learned so much from your posts.

 

[jason2020]

Mcdavid symbolizes hope for Edmonton at the end of all of their struggles. No way they trade him, it's pretty much just emotional at this point.

That and he's probably already the best player in the league? I wouldn't do it

They have been open to trading him in the past and if things go as bad as many expect this year I could see them open to offers.

 

[RipsADrive]

They have been open to trading him in the past and if things go as bad as many expect this year I could see them open to offers.

Link?

That's completely false. Mcdavid hasn't been on the trade block for even a second.

 

[swiftwin]

Mcdavid symbolizes hope for Edmonton at the end of all of their struggles. No way they trade him, it's pretty much just emotional at this point.

That and he's probably already the best player in the league? I wouldn't do it

You can see it in this thread. Emotion is clouding judgement.

Karlsson is an absolute generational talent, and the best player at his position. Doing things that haven't been done in decades. McDavid is a potential generational talent, and is unlikely to be the best player at his position any time soon.

 

[oilers84]

To Ottawa
Lander
Letestu
Simpson

To edm
Lazar
Ahl
Bailey
Smith

 

[winnipegger]

Despite my use of the qualifier "probably" you laugh. It's not that controversial to say. This is an opinion game, and my opinion is that I've never seen anyone skate like that little ****er did last year for 40 odd games.

Without a doubt you keep Mcdavid because you know how good he is now and it's unclear how good he's going to get.

 

[OConnellsProtege]

You can see it in this thread. Emotion is clouding judgement.

Karlsson is an absolute generational talent, and the best player at his position. Doing things that haven't been done in decades. McDavid is a potential generational talent, and is unlikely to be the best player at his position any time soon.

I realize only playing 45 games last year was a factor, but he did finish 3rd in points per game last season, behind Kane and Ben, ahead of Crosby and Karlsson, on one of the worst teams in the league at 18 years old. I think the word potential can be thrown right out the window in his case, unless we're talking "potential 120 point scorer" or "potential 5 time Hart Trophy winner".

And I'm not taking anything away from EK, the guy is a tremendous talent that any team would love to have.

 

[armani]

Despite my use of the qualifier "probably" you laugh. It's not that controversial to say. This is an opinion game, and my opinion is that I've never seen anyone skate like that little ****er did last year for 40 odd games.

Without a doubt you keep Mcdavid because you know how good he is now and it's unclear how good he's going to get.

Without a doubt for Edmonton. Without a doubt for Ottawa too, just not for both Karlsson AND Stone (Ottawa becomes worse than Edmonton on ice).

 

[treple13]

As a Flames fan, I'd much rather play the Oilers with McDavid than the Oilers with Karlsson and Stone. In a strict hockey sense, it would make the Oilers better.

Obviously there are some intangibles with McDavid and marketing and probably in drawing other players that want to play for them so there's no chance Edmonton does it.

Edmonton clearly gets better value, but Ottawa is probably more likely to make this trade in real life.

 

[CaptainSexyPants]

What I find most astonishing in these 10 years of Oilers' drafting is that out of 10 first round picks, only one is a defenseman, Darnell Nurse. It's kind of funny in a way. Think if they drafted a single defenseman between 2007 and 2010, Oilers are not talking about acquiring an elite no 1.

It's easy to say that they should have, but when you go back and look at the first defenseman who was taken directly after the Oilers pick those years...

2007 - Keaton Ellerby #10 (Gagner 6)
2008 - Tyler Cuma #23 (Eberle 22)
2009 - Ryan Ellis #11 (Paajarvi 10)
2010 - Gudbranson #4 (Hall 1)

The only take-back would have been Ellis...so there's a 25% success rate, and Ellis is not exactly a franchise-changing guy.

Props on Trevor Timmins for surprising everyone with McDonagh. When you see where Sam Gagner is, Oilers' top defense would not be in this state had they drafted McDonagh or even Shattenkirk.

Can't argue that they drafted the best player available each year, but one has to think that a long term plan would have made very clear that since they can't get their grip together, a prime candidate defenseman should have been acquired much sooner by drafting. So going after needs rather than after the best player available.

I don't think there's any doubt that they'd have loved to have drafted a D, it's just not that easy to do. There were no Doughty's or Ekblad's during the Oilers high-pick years. Seems like for every OEL there are a dozen Schenn's, Gudbranson's, Reinhart's, Cowen's or Hickey's. Those high picks are just too valuable to go off the board with.