Proposal: Ottawa-Edmonton Blockbuster

[CaptainSexyPants]

I dunno

Just read this thread from another POV than an Oilers fan and maybe you'd see the attitude of certain Oilers fans (not talking about all of them of course)? The thread was started by a Jets fan by the way...

What attitude? I legitimately don't get how "Oilers fans haven't been humbled by the past decade" would have anything to do with no one wanting to do this trade. Are you saying guys are overrating or being cocky about McDavid because they wouldn't make the trade? Or that cockiness about McDavid is unwarranted because of the decade in the toilet?
Like...Oilers fans can't be that excited about him, because they've been at the bottom of the standings for so long...?

English please? It's my 3rd langage so please use it correctly . No seriously, I didn't get the sense of your question. Anyway I'll repeat, Ottawa would make this deal (even though their on-ice results would suffer a bit) because it would be hard to pass with of all the additional revenues and media attention that McDavid would attract. But it wouldn't make sense for Ottawa, with the way they have built their team to finally compete now (ex : trading Zibanejad for Brassard).

I totally understand if Oilers fans say they wouldn't make the deal because McDavid represents too much $$$... but some of the answers in this thread are a bit baffling.

Maybe it was the fact that you put McDavid vs. Stone in there like THAT was the closer comparison (not Karlsson), or that you stated the value was heavily favored towards the Oilers (though admittedly while saying 'on-ice') but it sounded to me like you were stunned that Oiler fans wouldn't do it while at the same time saying that you, a Sens fan, would.

Seriously... what the heck is wrong with you? Did I hurt your feelings or something?

Two thoughts here..
One: it wasn't my intent for sarcasm to come across as insulting. If it did, I apologize for that.
Two: that said, if you're offended that easily then I would suggest refraining from the organizational digs your posts have been teeming with.

Where did I say "overrated"? I said the poster was delusional saying that the asking price would be Karlsson + Stone + Turris + 1st. We don't want to be the Oilers of the East

Leafs have a firm grasp on that honor, but with one playoff win over the past 9 seasons you folks are not that far behind.

And I have never so little brain effort in yours so I guess we're even

Are you sure you didn't want to use "self-contradiction"? lol self-contraction seems to be a religious thing

Hah. Yup, my bad. Typo.

I will reformulate and be more clear since you couldn't figure it out. I am saying that this collection of players is not that impressive from WHERE the Oilers have drafted in the last 10 years

Oh no, I've got the jist of the first half of your statement. The Oilers, in your mind, have drafted very poorly...10 years of high picks and not much to show for it. Now let me give you a hand, again, with the contradictory part...
"lol if MacDavid wins a Cup it will be because he is part of a team that has drafted first overall for a decade (tanked)"
With me yet...? The Oilers have a very "unimpressive group of high picks" but if they win with McDavid it will "only be because of the high picks". Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

but in Edmonton's case, they drafted in positions where they can't screw up but yet they somehow do.

So much wrong here. I don't want to derail this thread so I won't get into it past a couple of (what ought to be common sense) points..
Guys in the 1-2-3-4 range you can maybe try and make an argument for 'should have picked someone else' IF someone went off the board with a selection. The Oilers didn't. Everyone they took was the consensus pick at that spot. There are surprises in every draft and guys go up and down afterwards, but to say the Oilers are fools because they could have picked ____, when the majority of scouts would have disagreed with it at the time...well that's absolutely asinine.

Beyond that range is an absolute crap shoot the lower you go. Should have picked Josi at 22nd instead of Eberle? Are you kidding? Never mind that Eberle is an incredible 22nd overall...EVERYONE PASSED ON JOSI! Surprises happen.
Same thing with (most) everyone else you posted. You don't think that every team would have traded up to take everyone you listed past 10th overall in those years if they had any idea those players would pan out the way that they did? That's not an Oilers blunder; it's called hindsight and it applies to every team, every year.

I know you could do that analysis for every team and always find the "would have been better to draft"

Bingo. Making your whole exercise entirely useless, I'm sorry to tell you.

Overall, I like their first picks the last 3 drafts but before that, very underwhelming when you think of it... This should at least be a playoffs team by now.

Again, consensus best-picks-on-the-board, but yeah very underwhelming when you think about it. Should have gone off of Xspyrit's draft list, I guess.

Do you want to look at the 2nd round and gems like Tyler Pitlick? Their less than stellar drafting is the reason why they can't even contend for the playoffs. If that's not the case, please explain me why.

I don't really want to derail this whole thing by talking about the Oilers draft successes and lack-thereof, but no, I don't think that drafting is the reason for them having missed the playoffs. A factor, sure, but I'd blame AHL level management, coaching, defense and goaltending as the main culprits.

 

[zar]

I have to snicker at anyone who thinks the Ottawa Senators ownership would not make this trade. Yes, owners make these types of trades, not GMs.

 

[ManofSteel55]

No to trading McDavid.

 

[KidLine93]

With the expansion draft next year the Oilers would be forced to protect either

Karlsson-sekera-larsson-klefbom
RNH-Draisaitl-Lucic-Stone

this leaves eberle open for expansion draft

or

Karlsson-Sekera-Larsson
RNH-Draisaitl-Lucic-Eberle-Stone-Yakupov-Pouliot

this leaves Klefbom open

McDavid + (Eberle/Klefbom) > Karlsson + Stone

No from the oilers

 

[Golden_Jet]

With Stone added the trade is too lopsided in the oilers favour.

 

[jacks*]

Why would Edmonton make a deal for one of the best defensman in the league?

Knowing that they might be giving possibly soon to be the best player in the league.
I can't see the Oilers doing it.

 

[Drozko]

I know it's the cap Era but please look at the lindros trade. If a team wanted mcd bad enough it would be along those lines of a trade. Karlsson is elite NOT generational. Huge difference.

 

[Captain Controversy]

Watching Mcdavid play his cosmic hockey style makes any trade involving Connor not worth it.

 

[beer123]

No from Ottawa.
McDavid will be injury prone and won't play more than 60 games a year. Book it.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I know it's the cap Era but please look at the lindros trade. If a team wanted mcd bad enough it would be along those lines of a trade. Karlsson is elite NOT generational. Huge difference.

Karlsson is doing things defensemen haven't done in 30 years. I'd call that generational.

As for marketability....you think Erik doesn't sell jerseys? You think people are buying ticket packages to see Borowiecki? Erik may not have the sexy profile of McJesus, but don't kid yourselves...without Karlsson, Ottawa wouldn't break 10k fans a night over the last few years.

 

[Xspyrit]

What attitude? I legitimately don't get how "Oilers fans haven't been humbled by the past decade" would have anything to do with no one wanting to do this trade. Are you saying guys are overrating or being cocky about McDavid because they wouldn't make the trade? Or that cockiness about McDavid is unwarranted because of the decade in the toilet?
Like...Oilers fans can't be that excited about him, because they've been at the bottom of the standings for so long...?

I was not talking about every poster, but some posts were cocky and arrogant yes, for a team that has not been decent in a very long time. Do I need to get you some quotes or are you able to find them in the thread? But to answer you, yes the Oilers fans can be excited about him, but should remember the amount of suck it took to get him and all of the other high consolation prizes as well. Oilers didn't get him because they deserved him, but because life had pity.

Maybe it was the fact that you put McDavid vs. Stone in there like THAT was the closer comparison (not Karlsson), or that you stated the value was heavily favored towards the Oilers (though admittedly while saying 'on-ice') but it sounded to me like you were stunned that Oiler fans wouldn't do it while at the same time saying that you, a Sens fan, would.

I put McDavid vs Stone because they are both forwards. And in case you never saw Stone play, he is extremely valuable. Not saying he is as good as McDavid will be, but it's like comparing Bergeron and Crosby. And also because AFAIK, Karlsson is still better than McDavid right now.

I stand by my position, it's extremely simple. Wouldn't like that trade for "on-ice" purposes (for a few years) but it's a sacrifice to make for the financial health of a smaller market like Ottawa. What is so confusing here?

Two thoughts here..
One: it wasn't my intent for sarcasm to come across as insulting. If it did, I apologize for that.
Two: that said, if you're offended that easily then I would suggest refraining from the organizational digs your posts have been teeming with.

Fair. Me too, I surely don't want to insult you so sorry if you think I am doing that in any way. Even if we don't share the same opinions, we're just discussing hockey because we are starving right now. lol

2 : HF doesn't offend me. I'm an accomplished man and even though I didn't enjoy being insulted, I don't care anymore. Internet is internet.

Leafs have a firm grasp on that honor, but with one playoff win over the past 9 seasons you folks are not that far behind.

Yup Sens have been average since the Cup finals in 2007, but very far from as bad as Leafs or Oilers

Oh no, I've got the jist of the first half of your statement. The Oilers, in your mind, have drafted very poorly...10 years of high picks and not much to show for it. Now let me give you a hand, again, with the contradictory part...
"lol if MacDavid wins a Cup it will be because he is part of a team that has drafted first overall for a decade (tanked)"
With me yet...? The Oilers have a very "unimpressive group of high picks" but if they win with McDavid it will "only be because of the high picks". Which is it? You can't have it both ways.

It is somehow contradictory in your mind but in reality, I don't think it is. Let me put it very simply again

10 years of suck with a lot of very high picks = group of drafted players not that impressive considering from WHERE they picked EVERY Year (except 2008) = doesn't mean that they CAN'T win a Cup, particularly with McJesus on board. Of course, at some point when collecting so many top-7 picks (9 in 10 years), you might end up winning.

REST.

Don't have time for more, and I know what you are saying "consensus best-picks-on-the-board" but we simply disagree there. I think the Oilers could have drafted better and if they did, they would be in a better position today. Maybe they had a bit of bad luck with those "consensus best-picks-on-the-board" (weak drafts) but still not an excuse. Maybe the problem is the development programs in the organization.

Anyway, cheers and I hope that the Oilers turn a corner, you guys have been patient enough.

 

[garyturner3]

No from Ottawa.
McDavid will be injury prone and won't play more than 60 games a year. Book it.

Stone will develop a gambling problem and be out of the league in 2 years because of it. Book it.

It's fun making up things.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Easy pass from Edmonton. McDavid isn't available unless its an over payment.

 

[KingDeathMetal]

If you're the Oilers, why not just go back in time and pull the trigger on the PK Subban trade when you had the chance? Wouldn't have cost them McDavid.

 

[bert]

No thanks from a sens fan. Stone is massively underated.

Easy pass from Edmonton. McDavid isn't available unless its an over payment.

That is overpayment good grief. Stone would be Edmontons best forward after this deal.

Oilers block Ottawa's number.

Everyone on the sens suck thats right even the top scoring canadian right winger that lead the league in take aways by double and is 23 years old. Not even talking about hows the best D man in the NHL is going the other way too.

If you dont know the players dont comment.

According to HF every player on Ottawa is a bust or sucks.

 

[bert]

Connor McDavid had 48 points in only 45 games last season. With a full 82 game season under his belt I'd imagine McDavid could put up close to 90 points or more this season, if he can stay healthy through all 82 games.

Meanwhile Stone and Karrlson combine for 160.

 

[bert]

YOU may view him that way, but I don't need inside knowledge to say without a shadow of a doubt that your ownership does not. They'd be smart enough to realize what McDavid would mean for the franchise. This guy is going to be the face of the league.

Perhaps you'd be smart enough to see the type of player Mark Stone is.

Reading through this thread has established for me that no one on HF has ever watched Stone or looks at statistics like scoring and takeaways or corsi.

Obviously Karlsson alone for Mcdavid and the sens go balistic to get this deal done. But when including Stone its an easy no.

Ever since beling elevated to a top 6 roll with PP time in December of 2014 outside of a 10 game stretch where Turris was playing on one leg Stone has been a ppg player.

 

[Drozko]

Karlsson is doing things defensemen haven't done in 30 years. I'd call that generational.

As for marketability....you think Erik doesn't sell jerseys? You think people are buying ticket packages to see Borowiecki? Erik may not have the sexy profile of McJesus, but don't kid yourselves...without Karlsson, Ottawa wouldn't break 10k fans a night over the last few years.

Then why has Ottawa been a marginal play off team with EK. Generational carries a team like orr gretzky lemieux crosby. Ek hasn't proved he can. Elite dman yes generational no.

 

[topshelf15]

Then why has Ottawa been a marginal play off team with EK. Generational carries a team like orr gretzky lemieux crosby. Ek hasn't proved he can. Elite dman yes generational no.

Gretzky,had a team full of future HOF,s ditto for both lemieux and orr.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Karlsson is amazing and Stone is severely underrated. Dude is going to be a 70+ point selke caliber player. Karlsson is going to end up with 5 plus norris trophies probably.

Easy no from Ottawa

 

[danielpalfredsson]

I know it's the cap Era but please look at the lindros trade. If a team wanted mcd bad enough it would be along those lines of a trade. Karlsson is elite NOT generational. Huge difference.

His production would argue otherwise when you actually put into context his production versus the rest of the league instead of just looking at raw point totals.

First defender to finish top 5 in scoring in what? 30 years? Two, and what with a little bit more luck could have been 3-4 Norris trophies by 25. Karlsson is generational.

There wasn't a piece at Karlsson's level included in the Lindros trade. Forsberg eventually obviously got there, but at the time he wasn't expect to become what he became.

He's nowhere near as valuable as McDavid to a hockey organization because McDavid is the new face of the NHL who will print money for whatever team he is on, which is why Ottawa would pull the trigger on the proposed trade in a second. But, Karlsson+Stone makes Edmonton a better team with what they have now than McDavid.

 

[armani]

His production would argue otherwise when you actually put into context his production versus the rest of the league instead of just looking at raw point totals.

First defender to finish top 5 in scoring in what? 30 years? Two, and what with a little bit more luck could have been 3-4 Norris trophies by 25. Karlsson is generational.

There wasn't a piece at Karlsson's level included in the Lindros trade. Forsberg eventually obviously got there, but at the time he wasn't expect to become what he became.

He's nowhere near as valuable as McDavid to a hockey organization because McDavid is the new face of the NHL who will print money for whatever team he is on, which is why Ottawa would pull the trigger on the proposed trade in a second. But, Karlsson+Stone makes Edmonton a better team with what they have now than McDavid.

QFT. McDavid is the most valuable player in the league, he will be the face of the NHL, not just the organization that he will be playing for. He will be an Oiler for as long as they can keep him.

But as a hockey fan, particularly as a Sens fan, I won't mortgage my future by trading away proven yet youngish players in Karlsson (proven generational) AND Stone (elite 2-way, near-future Selke candidate). I want to see my team win, negating both EK and Stone to add McDavid makes the Sens worse than the current Oilers.

Karlsson is arguably the second most valuable asset in the league after McDavid. Forwards are easier to replace than elite offensive defencemen. Oiler fans should know it from the Hall-Larsson trade.

 

[Drozko]

We should poll this.

 

[Drozko]

EKs dplay is no where as good as Orr Gretzky McD Crosby Etc. Also part of the reason he's not generational. Point totals maybe. Mike Green at 21-24 would be classified as generational then.

 

[Blitzago*]

No thanks from a sens fan. Stone is massively underated.



That is overpayment good grief. Stone would be Edmontons best forward after this deal.



Everyone on the sens suck thats right even the top scoring canadian right winger that lead the league in take aways by double and is 23 years old. Not even talking about hows the best D man in the NHL is going the other way too.

If you dont know the players dont comment.

According to HF every player on Ottawa is a bust or sucks.

The best d man? I don't see doughty in this trade