Proposal: Ottawa-Edmonton Blockbuster

[NyQuil]

I'd consider trading the two of them for McDavid.

Ottawa hasn't exactly lit the world on fire over the past few years.

I think this upcoming season will say a lot about the current crew in Ottawa and whether improvement is on the horizon.

I'd probably have a better idea after 2016-2017 about how much I'd go for this deal or not.

Overpayment? Maybe by recent standards, where star players seem to go for another star player and a pick or a prospect.

From a hockey perspective, it's hard to evaluate a #1 centre vs. a #1 defenceman.

EKs dplay is no where as good as Orr Gretzky McD Crosby Etc.

I'd say his defensive play is probably better than everyone there not named Bobby Orr.

He is a defenceman after all, despite all the allegations to the contrary.

He spends a great deal of his icetime defending - it just doesn't show up on TSN highlights so people don't see it.

Forwards don't spend as much time doing it as defencemen do. That's what makes Karlsson's offensive contributions extraordinary.

Mike Green at 24- 27 would be classified as generational then.

You'd have a point if Green were leading his team in scoring and not ending up fourth behind Ovechkin, Backstrom and Semin.

Generational carries a team like orr gretzky lemieux crosby.

Lemieux didn't even make the playoffs for his first four seasons. It's never just about one player.

 

[Calgareee]

As far as on ice value is concerned the value is close. Where this becomes a no question ROFL hell nah type proposal to Edmonton is the sheer money that McDavid already has and will continue to generate for the franchise as well as the problems with expansion draft. But as with everything this all about the money and the complete rebranding that McDavid brings to the franchise.

 

[Drozko]

I'd consider trading the two of them for McDavid.

Ottawa hasn't exactly lit the world on fire over the past few years.

I think this upcoming season will say a lot about the current crew in Ottawa and whether improvement is on the horizon.

I'd probably have a better idea after 2016-2017 about how much I'd go for this deal or not.

Overpayment? Maybe by recent standards, where star players seem to go for another star player and a pick or a prospect.



I'd say his defensive play is probably better than everyone there not named Bobby Orr.

He is a defenceman after all, despite all the allegations to the contrary.

He spends a great deal of his icetime defending - it just doesn't show up on TSN highlights so people don't see it.



You'd have a point if Green were leading his team in scoring and not ending up fourth behind Ovechkin, Backstrom and Semin.

So who got the puck for ovie and Backstrom pretty sure a puck doesn't propell it's self. When ek is a plus 25 or 30 with 82 points despite his d partner we'll talk generational.

A LARGE amount of EKS production comes off the power play any ways. As where I'm pretty sure the generational players had a much greater ratio of evens production to pp production.

 

[beowulf]

Makes no sense as this is a trade that creates a hole for Ottawa on D that would be impossible to fill.

 

[NyQuil]

So who got the puck for ovie and Backstrom pretty sure a puck doesn't propell it's self. When ek is a plus 25 or 30 with 82 points despite his d partner we'll talk generational.

The point is that Green was not the major offensive catalyst for the Capitals.

He was an important piece but not as important as Karlsson is to the Senators.

A LARGE amount of EKS production comes off the power play any ways. As where I'm pretty sure the generational players had a much greater ratio of evens production to pp production.

When he won the Norris in 2011-2012, defensive scoring leader Karlsson had 50 even-strength points (out of a total of 78) and the runner-up (Dustin Byfuglien) had 53 total points including PP production.

Try again.

 

[SensNation613]

So who got the puck for ovie and Backstrom pretty sure a puck doesn't propell it's self. When ek is a plus 25 or 30 with 82 points despite his d partner we'll talk generational.

A LARGE amount of EKS production comes off the power play any ways. As where I'm pretty sure the generational players had a much greater ratio of evens production to pp production.

Actually, EK only had 26 PP last year including just 1 PP goal. That's about 1/3 of his entire production. Personally, I don't find Karlsson to be a big threat on the PP and the majority of his great plays are done at even strength. With a new PP system, I think his points will actually improve. The reason why our PP has been terrible over the years is because we lost Spezza who was by far our best player on the powerplay.

Take a look at Doughtys production, he scored 25 of his 51 points on the PP which shows he depends more on the PP than Karlsson does.

 

[NyQuil]

Actually, EK only had 26 PP last year including just 1 PP goal. That's about 1/3 of his entire production. Personally, I don't find Karlsson to be a big threat on the PP and the majority of his great plays are done at even strength. With a new PP system, I think his points will actually improve. The reason why our PP has been terrible over the years is because we lost Spezza who was by far our best player on the powerplay.

Take a look at Doughtys production, he scored 25 of his 51 points on the PP which shows he depends more on the PP than Karlsson does.

Yeah, Karlsson is better at even-strength where he can use his skating and mobility to greater effect.

Not to mention, they sit a guy on him for the entire PP these days because the other four guys are hapless at setting up and generate more offense off the rush.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

That is overpayment good grief. Stone would be Edmontons best forward after this deal.



Everyone on the sens suck thats right even the top scoring canadian right winger that lead the league in take aways by double and is 23 years old. Not even talking about hows the best D man in the NHL is going the other way too.

If you dont know the players dont comment.

According to HF every player on Ottawa is a bust or sucks.

Too much in this post to even start a proper reply.

 

[armani]

The proposal was made by a curious Jets fan, with both sides saying no to the deal. Ottawa won't make that trade from an on-ice product perspective (losing their two best players), while McDavid is the next big thing and Peter Pocklington no longer owns the Oilers.

 

[DasKaiser]

[Disclaimer: Obviously this would never happen due to the players involved, but it's the offseason, so why not? I apologise in advance if anyone is offended]

Ottawa:
Erik Karlsson
Mark Stone

Edmonton:
Connor McDavid


Reasoning:
Ottawa is not looking likely to become a contender in Karlsson's prime, so by acquiring a younger franchise player they can start rebuilding well.
Edmonton is clearly lacking on defence after Larsson, but has a stacked forward group who could be very dangerous in the next couple seasons. Karlsson could be the last piece for them to be great.
Right now Karlsson and McDavid are arguably the two most valuable assets now, with McDavid having an edge, so I added Stone to even it out and reduce the impact on the Oilers forwards.

Thoughts?

Hard nooo....from PC

 

[Drozko]

The point is that Green was not the major offensive catalyst for the Capitals.

He was an important piece but not as important as Karlsson is to the Senators.



When he won the Norris in 2011-2012, defensive scoring leader Karlsson had 50 even-strength points (out of a total of 78) and the runner-up (Dustin Byfuglien) had 53 total points including PP production.

Try again.

That's my point he's a pp guy. If a third or more of your production comes off the pp you are not generational.

Mike green has tons of pp points he's not generational. EK wasn't elite in his first season, mcd was. There's another difference. Crosby was elite from game one, same as gretzky same as lemieux same as orr.

 

[BradyTkachucky]

[/B]That's my point he's a pp guy[/B]. If a third or more of your production comes off the pp you are not generational.

Mike green has tons of pp points he's not generational. EK wasn't elite in his first season, mcd was. There's another difference. Crosby was elite from game one, same as gretzky same as lemieux same as orr.

EK had 82 points last season. 56 even strength, 26 on the power play. Do you even know what you're talking about?

 

[royboi]

Hockey is a business; McDavid is the most valuable asset in this swap by far (even accounting for Karlsson AND Stone together), in terms of business value. It would never happen.

 

[Drozko]

EK had 82 points last season. 56 even strength, 26 on the power play. Do you even know what you're talking about?

More so than you do. The only people who call EK a generational player are senator fans.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Can't believe this thread still has legs.

Ottawa: No
Edmonton: No

Next

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Hockey is a business; McDavid is the most valuable asset in this swap by far (even accounting for Karlsson AND Stone together), in terms of business value. It would never happen.

This x 100.

/thread.

 

[SenzZen]

I refuse to acknowledge that McDavid's worth > Karlsson's.

At least until this trade goes through. Then my guy >> your guy.

Why would Edmonton make a deal for one of the best defensman in the league?

Underrated post.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

EKs dplay is no where as good as Orr Gretzky McD Crosby Etc. Also part of the reason he's not generational. Point totals maybe. Mike Green at 21-24 would be classified as generational then.

That is extremely disingenuous. Compare Karlsson's past season to Green's 75 point season.

Mike Green played with Ovechkin, Semin, and Backstrom and just cracked the top 20 in points.

Karlsson played with Zibanejad and Pageau as the top two Cs (or a heavily disabled Turris due to injury) for a huge chunk of the year and finished top 5 in scoring.

Ovie, Backstrom, and Semin were 2/5/15 in league scoring. Green had TWO TOP FIVE SCORERS ON HIS TEAM. Ovie was 3rd in goals (1 goal away from being tied for first), Semin was 7th, Backstrom tied for 13th.

OTHER THAN KARLSSON OTTAWA HAD NOBODY IN THE TOP 20 FOR GOALS AND POINTS. Karlsson finished top 5 in points as a defender which is the first time that has happened in 30 or so years.

Other than "omg points", Karlsson's season this year blows Green's 75 point season out of the water. Top 5 in points vs top 20. Green had Ovechkin, Backstrom, Semin before he was a punchline.

Karlsson quietly had a generational season. He is a generational player. If he was on a better playoff team with more eyeballs than the small town Senators, he'd get his due for that. It is amazing that a lot of hockey fans truly don't realize how good Karlsson is.

Nobody is arguing that Karlsson is as good as Orr or Gretzky. Generational is a player who comes along once in a generation and is so far above his peers his cannot be touched. At least as a productive defender, Karlsson is generational considering what he is accomplishing especially with what he has been given to work with thus far.

 

[SensNation613]

That's my point he's a pp guy. If a third or more of your production comes off the pp you are not generational.

Mike green has tons of pp points he's not generational. EK wasn't elite in his first season, mcd was. There's another difference. Crosby was elite from game one, same as gretzky same as lemieux same as orr.

Crosby:
938 Points (349 on PP) = 37% of his points on the PP

Thornton:
1341 Points (480 on PP) = 35% of his points on the PP

Ovechkin:
966 Points (379 on PP) = 39% of his points on the PP

Lemieux (Excluding first three seasons):
1375 Points (564 on PP) = 41% of his points on the PP

Karlsson:
385 Points (150 on PP) = 39% of his points on the PP

Can you try another argument that I can destroy. From what I understood, neither of these five players are generational because their production relies too much on the PP. I'm not one the posters who pushes for Karlsson to be known a generational player but I do believe he will be by the end of his career. His production blows all defensemen out of the water and he relies on the PP less than any top offensive defenseman.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

That's my point he's a pp guy. If a third or more of your production comes off the pp you are not generational.

Mike green has tons of pp points he's not generational. EK wasn't elite in his first season, mcd was. There's another difference. Crosby was elite from game one, same as gretzky same as lemieux same as orr.

Ottawa's powerplay was a garbage dump last year. It is almost scary to imagine what kind of numbers EK would put up with a competent powerplay system and cast. Hopefully new coaching plus the addition of a skilled left handed player in Brassard will unlock that potential.

If you think EK is padding his stats with PP numbers you're completely misinformed and I would guess don't actually watch him play all that much or aren't that familiar with the Senators.

 

[CharlesHabsFan]

Let's look at it more closely :

2007 : 6 OA Sam Gagner... Voracek, Couture, McDonagh, Shattenkirk were all drafted not long after.

2008 : 22 OA Jordan Eberle. Great pick from where they chose. Only Carlson or Josi would have been better from that range, but hard to fault them here.

2009 : 10 OA Paajarvi-Svensson. Ryan Ellis, De Haan, Kulikov, Leddy, Kreider all drafted not long after.

2010 : 1 OA Hall. Great player but Seguin was the pick to make there. Johansen as well IMO. But hard to totally screw up on 1st OA picks nowadays. Now, they traded Hall for Adam Larsson? Hmm, time will tell if it was a good move but very risky IMO.

2011 : 1 OA RNH. Landeskog was the pick to make there. Huberdeau, Scheifele would have been arguably better choices too. Hard to fault them too because outside of Landeskog, others would have been seen as a big reach there. Not the best year to pick 1st OA.

2012 : 1 OA Yakupov. Enough said? Again, not the best year to pick 1st OA but still the wrong choice.

2013 : 7 OA Nurse. Not the worst choice but Ristolainen was picked just after. Time will tell as it's still very early to judge

2014 : 3 OA Leon Draisaitl. This one seems like the right choice, but it's not certain yet with Nylander, Ehlers and Bennett drafted not long right after.

2015 : 1 OA McDavid. No brainer, offsets the bad luck they had with 1st overalls. Impossible to screw up this one.

2016 : 4 OA Puljujarvi. Looks like a great pick but only time will tell.


I know you could do that analysis for every team and always find the "would have been better to draft" but in Edmonton's case, they drafted in positions where they can't screw up but yet they somehow do.

Overall, I like their first picks the last 3 drafts but before that, very underwhelming when you think of it... This should at least be a playoffs team by now.

Do you want to look at the 2nd round and gems like Tyler Pitlick? Their less than stellar drafting is the reason why they can't even contend for the playoffs. If that's not the case, please explain me why.

What I find most astonishing in these 10 years of Oilers' drafting is that out of 10 first round picks, only one is a defenseman, Darnell Nurse. It's kind of funny in a way. Think if they drafted a single defenseman between 2007 and 2010, Oilers are not talking about acquiring an elite no 1. Props on Trevor Timmins for surprising everyone with McDonagh. When you see where Sam Gagner is, Oilers' top defense would not be in this state had they drafted McDonagh or even Shattenkirk.

Can't argue that they drafted the best player available each year, but one has to think that a long term plan would have made very clear that since they can't get their grip together, a prime candidate defenseman should have been acquired much sooner by drafting. So going after needs rather than after the best player available.

If they had done so by trading, I think 2012 was their absolute best chance at it. Let someone else choose between Yakupov, Murray or Galchenyuk while acquiring a proven top pairing defenseman.

As to this proposal, pretty much all the arguments have been brought. Though as a non Sens fan, it's tough to admit but Karlsson is the clear no 1 defenseman in the league at the moment. You could argue before that it was because of bad years or anything, but Karlsson keeps on going. And I can't believe some people are factoring age to judge value at this point. Karlsson is treated like a 35 year old when compared to McDavid. Let's not go crazy either. 26 is barely into prime years, Karlsson litterally can keep on improving.

At the same time, McDavid only just played one season. What he has displayed on and off the ice sure indicate what a prime class player he will become. And as others said, market wise, his value can't probably be measured. I kind of twitch at the fact that people use the free agents signing as a boost of his value. It's not like suddenly, since you have McDavid, the whole top players hurry to sign with the Oilers either. And clearly, Sekera and Lucic were not the best free agents available. But anyway, McDavid has still a lot of very exciting hockey to play and I sure hope Oilers' management polish that diamond very well, unlike previous first overall picks..

So yeah, both teams say no for various reasons. Stone is majorly underrated in this thread, almost made seem like a throw in by some. Value is a lot closer than some lead on. But ultimately, no Oilers fan in his right mind would trade McDavid and rightfully so. Sens fans wouldn't want to deplete their team of extremely high end talented players for one future superstar. It is not very profitable, hockeywise. One McDavid doesn't make, by his talent only, a 22 players team, afterall.

 

[Drozko]

Ottawa's powerplay was a garbage dump last year. It is almost scary to imagine what kind of numbers EK would put up with a competent powerplay system and cast. Hopefully new coaching plus the addition of a skilled left handed player in Brassard will unlock that potential.

If you think EK is padding his stats with PP numbers you're completely misinformed and I would guess don't actually watch him play all that much or aren't that familiar with the Senators.

I gamble for a living. I watch more hockey then you know. I know what I see. EK is elite never denied it but mcd is out of this world in speed and hockey iq. Watch gretzky high lights and then mcd highlights they do a lot of the same thing. As where orr and ek not so much.

 

[Blitzago*]

What I find most astonishing in these 10 years of Oilers' drafting is that out of 10 first round picks, only one is a defenseman, Darnell Nurse. It's kind of funny in a way. Think if they drafted a single defenseman between 2007 and 2010, Oilers are not talking about acquiring an elite no 1. Props on Trevor Timmins for surprising everyone with McDonagh. When you see where Sam Gagner is, Oilers' top defense would not be in this state had they drafted McDonagh or even Shattenkirk.

Can't argue that they drafted the best player available each year, but one has to think that a long term plan would have made very clear that since they can't get their grip together, a prime candidate defenseman should have been acquired much sooner by drafting. So going after needs rather than after the best player available.

If they had done so by trading, I think 2012 was their absolute best chance at it. Let someone else choose between Yakupov, Murray or Galchenyuk while acquiring a proven top pairing defenseman.

As to this proposal, pretty much all the arguments have been brought. Though as a non Sens fan, it's tough to admit but Karlsson is the clear no 1 defenseman in the league at the moment. You could argue before that it was because of bad years or anything, but Karlsson keeps on going. And I can't believe some people are factoring age to judge value at this point. Karlsson is treated like a 35 year old when compared to McDavid. Let's not go crazy either. 26 is barely into prime years, Karlsson litterally can keep on improving.

At the same time, McDavid only just played one season. What he has displayed on and off the ice sure indicate what a prime class player he will become. And as others said, market wise, his value can't probably be measured. I kind of twitch at the fact that people use the free agents signing as a boost of his value. It's not like suddenly, since you have McDavid, the whole top players hurry to sign with the Oilers either. And clearly, Sekera and Lucic were not the best free agents available. But anyway, McDavid has still a lot of very exciting hockey to play and I sure hope Oilers' management polish that diamond very well, unlike previous first overall picks..

So yeah, both teams say no for various reasons. Stone is majorly underrated in this thread, almost made seem like a throw in by some. Value is a lot closer than some lead on. But ultimately, no Oilers fan in his right mind would trade McDavid and rightfully so. Sens fans wouldn't want to deplete their team of extremely high end talented players for one future superstar. It is not very profitable, hockeywise. One McDavid doesn't make, by his talent only, a 22 players team, afterall.

You do know they drafted klefbom 19th overall right?

And clearly they were the best available for the oilers at their positions, don't make stuff up....

 

[VainGretzky]

What I find most astonishing in these 10 years of Oilers' drafting is that out of 10 first round picks, only one is a defenseman, Darnell Nurse. It's kind of funny in a way. Think if they drafted a single defenseman between 2007 and 2010, Oilers are not talking about acquiring an elite no 1. Props on Trevor Timmins for surprising everyone with McDonagh. When you see where Sam Gagner is, Oilers' top defense would not be in this state had they drafted McDonagh or even Shattenkirk.

Can't argue that they drafted the best player available each year, but one has to think that a long term plan would have made very clear that since they can't get their grip together, a prime candidate defenseman should have been acquired much sooner by drafting. So going after needs rather than after the best player available.

If they had done so by trading, I think 2012 was their absolute best chance at it. Let someone else choose between Yakupov, Murray or Galchenyuk while acquiring a proven top pairing defenseman.

As to this proposal, pretty much all the arguments have been brought. Though as a non Sens fan, it's tough to admit but Karlsson is the clear no 1 defenseman in the league at the moment. You could argue before that it was because of bad years or anything, but Karlsson keeps on going. And I can't believe some people are factoring age to judge value at this point. Karlsson is treated like a 35 year old when compared to McDavid. Let's not go crazy either. 26 is barely into prime years, Karlsson litterally can keep on improving.

At the same time, McDavid only just played one season. What he has displayed on and off the ice sure indicate what a prime class player he will become. And as others said, market wise, his value can't probably be measured. I kind of twitch at the fact that people use the free agents signing as a boost of his value. It's not like suddenly, since you have McDavid, the whole top players hurry to sign with the Oilers either. And clearly, Sekera and Lucic were not the best free agents available. But anyway, McDavid has still a lot of very exciting hockey to play and I sure hope Oilers' management polish that diamond very well, unlike previous first overall picks..

So yeah, both teams say no for various reasons. Stone is majorly underrated in this thread, almost made seem like a throw in by some. Value is a lot closer than some lead on. But ultimately, no Oilers fan in his right mind would trade McDavid and rightfully so. Sens fans wouldn't want to deplete their team of extremely high end talented players for one future superstar. It is not very profitable, hockeywise. One McDavid doesn't make, by his talent only, a 22 players team, afterall.

Klefbom was taken in 1st round as well

 

[SensNation613]

I gamble for a living. I watch more hockey then you know. I know what I see. EK is elite never denied it but mcd is out of this world in speed and hockey iq. Watch gretzky high lights and then mcd highlights they do a lot of the same thing. As where orr and ek not so much.

You're wrong. You've said Karlsson relies too much on the PP when every Senators fan in the thread said that his strength is ES. Karlsson's speed & IQ is among the best in the league and while I do believe McDavid is going to be the best player in the league, the difference isn't Mark Stone.

Also, take a look at the reply I posted about the PP production. You have absolutely no clue about the way Karlsson plays, not a single Sens fan should/will take offense to the fact that McDavid has higher value. From what you've posted in this thread, it's clear you don't watch any Senators games.