on ice, as is, yes. But McDavid would put the Sens on the map, league wide. He'd attract the best UFAs available, and eventually he'd make his version of the Sens better than the Karlsson version. Bottom line is the Sens as is and the Oilers as is, both are no where near good enough. These teams are not contenders at this point. Changes/additions are needed before either team becomes a true contender.
Proposal: Ottawa-Edmonton Blockbuster
- Thread starter jetsforever
- Start date
on ice, as is, yes. But McDavid would put the Sens on the map, league wide. He'd attract the best UFAs available, and eventually he'd make his version of the Sens better than the Karlsson version. Bottom line is the Sens as is and the Oilers as is, both are no where near good enough. These teams are not contenders at this point. Changes/additions are needed before either team becomes a true contender.
Sens of Anarchy
Registered User
- Jul 9, 2013
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Love McDavid, Love Karlsson, Love Stone
Not going to happen from either fan base.
Personally I think Karlsson and Stone are worth more.
Not going to happen from either fan base.
Personally I think Karlsson and Stone are worth more.
The only hesitation Ottawa would have in making this trade is the +Stone
Karlsson for Mcdavid straight up offer hits the table and Ottawa makes the trade without blinking.
JMO
So, I believe with the +Stone.. Ottawa ends up making this trade.
Its edmonton who would 99% not do this trade
Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
First, Oilers fans need to realize that IT WAS NOT a Sens fan making the original proposal
What I find impressive is that many Oilers fans don't seem to have been humbled by those really tough years.
Or that the difference between McDavid and Stone is NOT Erik Karlsson.
I would do the trade because that would mean a TON of money for Ottawa (and it would change everything in the long run), but in terms of on-ice value, it's heavily in Edmonton's favor
Not saying that McDavid is on the market (and rightfully, because he is like Crosby 2.0 in terms of marketing) but you guys are just delusional.
lol if MacDavid wins a Cup it will be because he is part of a team that has drafted first overall for a decade (tanked). It's a bit the same for Pittsburgh but at least it didn't last as long and Crosby was pure luck, not entirely because they sucked (although they finished dead last in 2003-04) but because they also found some key players in other ways than drafting super high (ex : Letang, Gonchar and Kunitz)
Oilers drafted 6th-22nd-10th-1st-1st-1st-7th-3rd-1st-4th in the last 10 drafts, and all they have left from that is McDavid, Puljujarvi, Draisaitl, Nurse, RNH, Eberle and Larsson. Not impressive. The (yet another) consolation prize of McDavid saves the day. Gosh, I think the Sens have drafted more talent since 2008, despite drafting 15th on average.
Imagine the massive failure if they don't at least win a Cup with McJesus.
What are you talking about? If the Sens trade Karlsson, why would they trade players like Lazar (21 y/o) and White/Brown/1st round pick?
What I find impressive is that many Oilers fans don't seem to have been humbled by those really tough years.
Or that the difference between McDavid and Stone is NOT Erik Karlsson.
I would do the trade because that would mean a TON of money for Ottawa (and it would change everything in the long run), but in terms of on-ice value, it's heavily in Edmonton's favor
Not saying that McDavid is on the market (and rightfully, because he is like Crosby 2.0 in terms of marketing) but you guys are just delusional.
lol if MacDavid wins a Cup it will be because he is part of a team that has drafted first overall for a decade (tanked). It's a bit the same for Pittsburgh but at least it didn't last as long and Crosby was pure luck, not entirely because they sucked (although they finished dead last in 2003-04) but because they also found some key players in other ways than drafting super high (ex : Letang, Gonchar and Kunitz)
Oilers drafted 6th-22nd-10th-1st-1st-1st-7th-3rd-1st-4th in the last 10 drafts, and all they have left from that is McDavid, Puljujarvi, Draisaitl, Nurse, RNH, Eberle and Larsson. Not impressive. The (yet another) consolation prize of McDavid saves the day. Gosh, I think the Sens have drafted more talent since 2008, despite drafting 15th on average.
Imagine the massive failure if they don't at least win a Cup with McJesus.
What are you talking about? If the Sens trade Karlsson, why would they trade players like Lazar (21 y/o) and White/Brown/1st round pick?
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- Feb 5, 2010
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I'm not sure you have been paying attention if you think this team wouldn't be any worse defensively without him.
No deal from me. McDavid is going to be the best player in the NHL but I think Karlsson is the best defenseman in the league so the difference isn't Stone. He's easily one of the most underrated players in the entire league and is IMO a top 10 RWer.
I'd do Karlsson for McDavid if we were able to package up Turris+ for a capable 1st pair defenseman.
I'd do Karlsson for McDavid if we were able to package up Turris+ for a capable 1st pair defenseman.
CaptainSexyPants
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2012
- 1,301
- 152
What does this even mean?
Again...what are you talking about? You'd make the trade as an Ottawa fan, but how can Oilers fans say they wouldn't...?
Yeah, he's like, totally being overrated. But...you'd trade Karlsson and Stone for him.
So the Oilers have collected an unimpressive group of crap after 10 years of picking high...but if they win a cup it will only be because of tanking for a decade and amassing all of these stellar players. What?
I've honestly never seen more self-contraction in one post. Congrats. Seriously.
Agree with the others that have said McDavid's value is far more than his on-ice performance. Just look at this summer for example, he was a huge reason that one of the top free-agents signed with us.
In the NHL circles Edmonton is no longer referred to as the "small Siberian city of the north" but rather, home to McDavid's Oilers.
In the NHL circles Edmonton is no longer referred to as the "small Siberian city of the north" but rather, home to McDavid's Oilers.
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Trapper
Registered User
- Nov 21, 2013
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I'm surprised this thread has made this many pages before being locked.
These deals are out of the realm of possibilities.
Randy Randerson
Registered User
Neutral fan - I believe this is a hard no from Edmonton, and an easy yes from Ottawa. McDavid-level players carry teams to being contenders, and despite how good Karlsson is, he has not been able to do that for Ottawa
No from Ottawa & I can promise you that Dorion would give the same answer.
Switch the two straight up today and I don't think he is "able to do that for Ottawa" either. No one player, not Crosby, not Ovechkin...no one player can make that much of a difference nowadays in the cap era NHL where parity is becoming more and more apparent between the top-10 teams on any given year.
And it is easier to get comparable (close or otherwise) forwards than it is to get a premier offensive defenceman.
As the Oilers' fans can attest to from the Hall-Larsson trade, it is extremely difficult to land a top defenceman via trades or free agency. McDavid has the most value of any players in the league (on and off-ice). Ottawa is a budget team and even with a player of McDavid's calibre they won't afford many free agents until the team moves to Lebraton flats somewhere in the next decade (or until Eugene "El Cheapo" Melnyk sells the team).
Ottawa loses out on the ice in selling their best two players for McDavid.
Oilers are not contenders any time soon, they have no reason to trade their franchise player - even if the other player is Karlsson, a proven commodity as one of the best players on the planet. Oilers need McDavid more than Ottawa needs McDavid minus EK65 and Stone.
snipes
How cold? I’m ice cold.
- Dec 28, 2015
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Xspyrit
DJ Dorion
What does this even mean?
I dunno
Just read this thread from another POV than an Oilers fan and maybe you'd see the attitude of certain Oilers fans (not talking about all of them of course)? The thread was started by a Jets fan by the way...
English please? It's my 3rd langage so please use it correctly
. No seriously, I didn't get the sense of your question. Anyway I'll repeat, Ottawa would make this deal (even though their on-ice results would suffer a bit) because it would be hard to pass with of all the additional revenues and media attention that McDavid would attract. But it wouldn't make sense for Ottawa, with the way they have built their team to finally compete now (ex : trading Zibanejad for Brassard).I totally understand if Oilers fans say they wouldn't make the deal because McDavid represents too much $$$... but some of the answers in this thread are a bit baffling.
Seriously... what the heck is wrong with you? Did I hurt your feelings or something?
Where did I say "overrated"? I said the poster was delusional saying that the asking price would be Karlsson + Stone + Turris + 1st. We don't want to be the Oilers of the East
And yes, I'd trade Karlsson + Stone for McDavid just because the Sens are not wealthy and those additional revenues would make this team "rich" for the next decade. No more budget and the possibility to buy out contracts or attract most expensive UFAs or even make trades that you don't have to trade equal salary back...
So the Oilers have collected an unimpressive group of crap after 10 years of picking high...but if they win a cup it will only be because of tanking for a decade and amassing all of these stellar players. What?
I've honestly never seen more self-contraction in one post. Congrats. Seriously.
And I have never so little brain effort in yours so I guess we're even
Are you sure you didn't want to use "self-contradiction"? lol self-contraction seems to be a religious thing
I will reformulate and be more clear since you couldn't figure it out. I am saying that this collection of players is not that impressive from WHERE the Oilers have drafted in the last 10 years.
Let's look at it more closely :
2007 : 6 OA Sam Gagner... Voracek, Couture, McDonagh, Shattenkirk were all drafted not long after.
2008 : 22 OA Jordan Eberle. Great pick from where they chose. Only Carlson or Josi would have been better from that range, but hard to fault them here.
2009 : 10 OA Paajarvi-Svensson. Ryan Ellis, De Haan, Kulikov, Leddy, Kreider all drafted not long after.
2010 : 1 OA Hall. Great player but Seguin was the pick to make there. Johansen as well IMO. But hard to totally screw up on 1st OA picks nowadays. Now, they traded Hall for Adam Larsson? Hmm, time will tell if it was a good move but very risky IMO.
2011 : 1 OA RNH. Landeskog was the pick to make there. Huberdeau, Scheifele would have been arguably better choices too. Hard to fault them too because outside of Landeskog, others would have been seen as a big reach there. Not the best year to pick 1st OA.
2012 : 1 OA Yakupov. Enough said? Again, not the best year to pick 1st OA but still the wrong choice.
2013 : 7 OA Nurse. Not the worst choice but Ristolainen was picked just after. Time will tell as it's still very early to judge
2014 : 3 OA Leon Draisaitl. This one seems like the right choice, but it's not certain yet with Nylander, Ehlers and Bennett drafted not long right after.
2015 : 1 OA McDavid. No brainer, offsets the bad luck they had with 1st overalls. Impossible to screw up this one.
2016 : 4 OA Puljujarvi. Looks like a great pick but only time will tell.
I know you could do that analysis for every team and always find the "would have been better to draft" but in Edmonton's case, they drafted in positions where they can't screw up but yet they somehow do.
Overall, I like their first picks the last 3 drafts but before that, very underwhelming when you think of it... This should at least be a playoffs team by now.
Do you want to look at the 2nd round and gems like Tyler Pitlick? Their less than stellar drafting is the reason why they can't even contend for the playoffs. If that's not the case, please explain me why.
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Poignant Discussion*
I tell it like it is
2 Years of Karlsson and Stone does not remotely equate to McDavid, let's get serious for a second
VainGretzky
Registered User
- Jun 4, 2015
- 14,049
- 12,751
Not a chance only in Sens fans eyes . McDavid marketing is well worth more you don't move generational for that.
Number one answer is.... Because Mcdavid is the Best young player in teh league and a step away from being the best player in the league.
Karlsson is a great player, but you just don't trade a player like Mcdavid. If you need a reason why go see Gretzky and the oilers. They one cup right after but other than 2006 have sucked for 25 years since.
HavlatMach9
streamable 3rah1
Sens give up more value in this trade, but honestly I'd probably do it, so I dunno. McDavid in Ottawa would mean a lot.
Randy Randerson
Registered User
Randy Randerson
Registered User
My opinion is what it is, if you get a chance to get McDavid you do it, IMO
Wasn't trying to detract from Karlsson, he's great. And I agree that you need a supporting cast, which Edm appears close to having. There isn't precedent to say that Comparable forwards are easier to get, players of that caliber do not become available until they're in their 30's and the team is rebuilding again. I think Ottawa is a better team with McDavid than the two you give up, he'll Crosby-effect his wingers and increase their production. Your D Corps is pretty good behind Karlsson too. Age, cost and control-ability also favour McDavid, still have 2 ELC years remaining where you'll probably get $9M+ production out of an entry level cap hit
Anyway, I think Ottawa does that deal if its available, but don't think it ever would be available
I wouldn't expect the Hall-Larsson trade to set the market on return, that was a universally criticized trade from Edm's perspective
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danielpalfredsson
youtube dot com /watch?v=CdqMZ_s7Y6k
- Aug 14, 2013
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Edmonton wins this trade on the hockey end of things, Ottawa wins this trade on the business side of things.
Karlsson is a generational defender who despite missing an entire season has won 2 Norris trophies and was a finalist for a third. With some better luck, Karlsson could have 3-4 Norris trophies already. He just finished fifth in scoring as a defenseman which is something that hasn't been done for 30 years.
Stone is a legit 1st line right winger. Lots of people don't watch Stone because he is in Ottawa who have only played 6 playoff games with him and aren't a hugely popular team, but Stone is a gamer. He is one of Ottawa's most productive players, and he can play in all situations. He's the closest thing Ottawa has to another Alfredsson in terms of a player with spirit who leads by example. If Ottawa manages to keep him under contract throughout his career, he'll go down as one of the greatest Senators of all time.
Ottawa would have a MASSIVE hole on defense. Karlsson is the team's entire backend. Methot and Phaneuf are solid top 4 guys, and Ceci is coming along nicely now that he has Phaneuf as a partner, but Phaneuf-Ceci/Methot-Wideman doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. Ottawa would need to make another massive trade to get a solid top 4 RD since in most cases that is the best thing teams can really hope for via trade (see Larsson).
As a Canadian Eastern time zone team, Ottawa would put themselves in a position to become one of the league's premier teams if they had McDavid who is set to become the biggest most visible star. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that McDavid could compete for or win the Art Ross trophy this upcoming season. There is no owner in the league who wouldn't threaten to fire their GM if they didn't pull the trigger on the proposed offer. McDavid is just too valuable off the ice from a business perspective. One example, Ottawa is about to negotiate with the city to build a new arena, imagine how having a star as marketable McDavid might effect that. The Senators have the lowest priced tickets out of any Canadian team, imagine how getting McDavid might effect their ability to raise those prices despite the fact that they play what for your average person is a 45-60 minute commute away from the city on game nights.
Karlsson is a generational defender who despite missing an entire season has won 2 Norris trophies and was a finalist for a third. With some better luck, Karlsson could have 3-4 Norris trophies already. He just finished fifth in scoring as a defenseman which is something that hasn't been done for 30 years.
Stone is a legit 1st line right winger. Lots of people don't watch Stone because he is in Ottawa who have only played 6 playoff games with him and aren't a hugely popular team, but Stone is a gamer. He is one of Ottawa's most productive players, and he can play in all situations. He's the closest thing Ottawa has to another Alfredsson in terms of a player with spirit who leads by example. If Ottawa manages to keep him under contract throughout his career, he'll go down as one of the greatest Senators of all time.
Ottawa would have a MASSIVE hole on defense. Karlsson is the team's entire backend. Methot and Phaneuf are solid top 4 guys, and Ceci is coming along nicely now that he has Phaneuf as a partner, but Phaneuf-Ceci/Methot-Wideman doesn't inspire a lot of confidence. Ottawa would need to make another massive trade to get a solid top 4 RD since in most cases that is the best thing teams can really hope for via trade (see Larsson).
As a Canadian Eastern time zone team, Ottawa would put themselves in a position to become one of the league's premier teams if they had McDavid who is set to become the biggest most visible star. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that McDavid could compete for or win the Art Ross trophy this upcoming season. There is no owner in the league who wouldn't threaten to fire their GM if they didn't pull the trigger on the proposed offer. McDavid is just too valuable off the ice from a business perspective. One example, Ottawa is about to negotiate with the city to build a new arena, imagine how having a star as marketable McDavid might effect that. The Senators have the lowest priced tickets out of any Canadian team, imagine how getting McDavid might effect their ability to raise those prices despite the fact that they play what for your average person is a 45-60 minute commute away from the city on game nights.
You hit the nail on the head. For Edmonton and Ottawa.
The two players are the faces of their respective franchises, ones that those franchises are heavily invested in. While the hockey-value of the proposed trade may be reasonable, the impacts off the ice are even bigger, with marketing and vision overhauls (I almost want to describe it as off-ice intangibles). I, now, immediately regret calling it that.
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