Proposal: Ottawa-Edmonton Blockbuster

[UnicornONtheCOBB]

As a Flames fan, I'd much rather play the Oilers with McDavid than the Oilers with Karlsson and Stone. In a strict hockey sense, it would make the Oilers better.

Obviously there are some intangibles with McDavid and marketing and probably in drawing other players that want to play for them so there's no chance Edmonton does it.

Edmonton clearly gets better value, but Ottawa is probably more likely to make this trade in real life.

In the short term, and as is, I agree with you. Karlsson and Stone would make more of an impact than just McDavid. But there are other things to consider...

1) Karlsson has 2 years left before he becomes a UFA. Best case scenario, they resign him, but it will cost at least 9 million per. Worst case, they lose him to free agency.

2) Edmonton has trouble attracting free agents, whether it's where it is geographically or if it's due to there performance on the ice or if it's a combination of these or other things. There is a good possibility that if McDavid does become the best player in the world, maybe he might be able to attract some players to Edmonton. This isn't for sure, but it might help.

So, 2 years of EK and the loss of McDavid and all that he brings on and off the ice, to me, is to big of a price and of a gamble to make this deal.

 

[Drozko]

You realize that Karlsson led his team in ice time as a rookie in the playoffs?

i guess only garbage players can do that

Schultz led his team in ice time all season for the Oilers as a rookie and had a similar results. Erik turned out ELITE though.

 

[mondo3]

it's an interesting proposal that I think would make Edmonton a real contender.

 

[Fourier]

In the short term, and as is, I agree with you. Karlsson and Stone would make more of an impact than just McDavid. But there are other things to consider...

1) Karlsson has 2 years left before he becomes a UFA. Best case scenario, they resign him, but it will cost at least 9 million per. Worst case, they lose him to free agency.

2) Edmonton has trouble attracting free agents, whether it's where it is geographically or if it's due to there performance on the ice or if it's a combination of these or other things. There is a good possibility that if McDavid does become the best player in the world, maybe he might be able to attract some players to Edmonton. This isn't for sure, but it might help.

So, 2 years of EK and the loss of McDavid and all that he brings on and off the ice, to me, is to big of a price and of a gamble to make this deal.

With respect to 2) above it is already happening. Both Sekera and Lucic mentioned McDavid as one of their key factors in their interest in Edmonton.

 

[Fourier]

You can see it in this thread. Emotion is clouding judgement.

Karlsson is an absolute generational talent, and the best player at his position. Doing things that haven't been done in decades. McDavid is a potential generational talent, and is unlikely to be the best player at his position any time soon.

Of course McDavid is still potential. But having watched the whole Oiler dynasty live and having followed McDavid since he was 16, I would be shocked if McDavid does not become the second best Oiler of all time. That puts him ahead of Messier, and as such ahead of Paul Coffey who was also a generational offensive defenseman and a player who actually accomplished more than Karlsson has to the same point in his career. So for me the clear advantage is to McDavid.

Of course I fully understand why no Ottowa fan would want to trade both Stone and Karlsson for McDavid, but as an Oiler fan I'd be completely choked if they made that deal.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

McDavid's value is severely overrated on these boards. For a guy that will never eclipse 100 points you wouldn't trade him for Karlsson and Stone? Wow. Edmonton Fans. wow

Not even close. And it's premature to say he'll never eclipse 100 points after putting up the 3rd best PPG as a rookie.

There's so much more to hockey trades than pure production on the ice. McDavid brings UFAs (Sekera, Lucic, etc...), sells tickets, and will be the face of the league.

 

[Legend123]

Of course McDavid is still potential. But having watched the whole Oiler dynasty live and having followed McDavid since he was 16, I would be shocked if McDavid does not become the second best Oiler of all time. That puts him ahead of Messier, and as such ahead of Paul Coffey who was also a generational offensive defenseman and a player who actually accomplished more than Karlsson has to the same point in his career. So for me the clear advantage is to McDavid.

Of course I fully understand why no Ottowa fan would want to trade both Stone and Karlsson for McDavid, but as an Oiler fan I'd be completely choked if they made that deal.

Nah, McDavid wont better than Messier. He might very well be more talented and whatever else, but its way too hard to score in the NHL these days. When you look back at who was better, say in 20 years or so, people will look at the stats, goals assists and cups to determine who was better. Messier has done all of that. McDavid will be great but i dont think he post Messier's numbers. It will be tough for McDavid to post 100+ points per season. Look at Crosby, Ovechkin these past few years.

 

[Legend123]

In terms of value, oilers dont make this deal, not when McDavid is considered the oilers savior. Connor McJesus! He's the most hyped player since Crosby. I would argue hes more talented than crosby.

 

[armani]

Time will tell, but McDavid is indeed more talented and exciting than Crosby, and it will be a true achievement if he is able to replicate Crosby's success in Edmonton. But anything less would be a let down judging by the, albeit justifiable, hype surrounding McDavid. McJESUS!!

Eugene Melnyk does that trade in a heartbeat, Katz hangs up the phone and defecates on it. Somewhere at the background Dorion, Boucher, and Crawford bum slaps each other as a sign of relief from an on-ice product perspective. Generational offensive defencemen are very rare. Coffey was never his team's best player, rarely even considered 2nd most important. Karlsson is EVERYTHING for his franchise and Stone is already an elite 2-way right winger. As a fan of the Sens, I would not make that trade, it makes Ottawa worse than Edmonton today. I want my team to win and am very ecstatic to have a proven player in Karlsson lead the charge, along with Stone.

 

[Fourier]

Nah, McDavid wont better than Messier. He might very well be more talented and whatever else, but its way too hard to score in the NHL these days. When you look back at who was better, say in 20 years or so, people will look at the stats, goals assists and cups to determine who was better. Messier has done all of that. McDavid will be great but i dont think he post Messier's numbers. It will be tough for McDavid to post 100+ points per season. Look at Crosby, Ovechkin these past few years.

I don't expect him to post Messier's numbers. In part because he does not have a Gretzky to play with let alone because of the differences in the game. But if you measure a player based on raw stats alone then Crosby would not be at anywhere close to the top players of the 80's. His point totals are basically the same as Hawerchuk's after a similar number of games. But as good as Hawerchuk was no one would put him at Crosby's level because people do realise that the league has changed.

Believe me I know what Messier brought to the table because I watched him live about 400 times and probably saw him play 1000 games in his career. But I stand by what I said. There are already aspects of McDavid's game that are the bes I have ever seen. For example, I don't think I have ever seen anyone handle the puck at full speed the way he does. It is really incredible.

 

[Stu]

I don't expect him to post Messier's numbers. In part because he does not have a Gretzky to play with let alone because of the differences in the game. But if you measure a player based on raw stats alone then Crosby would not be at anywhere close to the top players of the 80's. His point totals are basically the same as Hawerchuk's after a similar number of games. But as good as Hawerchuk was no one would put him at Crosby's level because people do realise that the league has changed.

Believe me I know what Messier brought to the table because I watched him live about 400 times and probably saw him play 1000 games in his career. But I stand by what I said. There are already aspects of McDavid's game that are the bes I have ever seen. For example, I don't think I have ever seen anyone handle the puck at full speed the way he does. It is really incredible.

Pavel Bure would like to say hello.

 

[Legend123]

I don't expect him to post Messier's numbers. In part because he does not have a Gretzky to play with let alone because of the differences in the game. But if you measure a player based on raw stats alone then Crosby would not be at anywhere close to the top players of the 80's. His point totals are basically the same as Hawerchuk's after a similar number of games. But as good as Hawerchuk was no one would put him at Crosby's level because people do realise that the league has changed.

Believe me I know what Messier brought to the table because I watched him live about 400 times and probably saw him play 1000 games in his career. But I stand by what I said. There are already aspects of McDavid's game that are the bes I have ever seen. For example, I don't think I have ever seen anyone handle the puck at full speed the way he does. It is really incredible.

Agreed!! Ive never seen a more fascinating exciting player than McDavid. He has it all. He's tencious, big, incredible speed and agility. His skills are just not from this planet. Man, his parents should have gotten another baby McDavid 16 years ago^^. And yes his ability to control the puck and stick handle it at top speed is not incredible but mind blowing; and he makes it look so easy and effortless. He also has an amazing hockey IQ.

he scored these same goals on juniors and i always thought theres no way any goalie in the NHL can stop him from scoring, not even price can^^

 

[Six Assets]

No to any Karlsson proposal. He'll only be traded if Euge doesn't pay up in 2 years time.

 

[SensNation613]

Ive watched enough to know he gets
Quite a few assists off of point shots and has a laser first pass and he is not at all physical. Never said karlsson hockey iq is low it's just not as good as McDavid's. McDavid's iq is gretzky esc as where karlssons just isn't. Orr was a better goal scorer and drove the net as where EK relies on his point shot and gets the occasional high slot.

There are more similarities in McDavid's game to gretzky than eks to orr

Karlsson is actually a decently physical player, not a Stevens but he dishes out the body quite frequently. I don't care that McDavid has more value than Karlsson because it is true but you have absolutely no clue about the way Karlsson plays. No he doesn't rely on his point shot, he relies on his breakouts and rushes. He's the best transitional player in the league IMO, going from the defensive zone all the way to offense. That's why his game is so great.

Don't see orr or gretzky in there. You had to exclude seasons on your lemieux point. EK was terrible in his first few seasons as I rec all as where mcd crosby gretzky etc were lights out. Crosby also had a season where more than 50 percent of production came off the power play. How many generational talents do you know of had to be brought along ? None Karlsson was garbage in year 1 and 2 that not generational. Karlsson is a pylon to McD.

Used NHL.com stats, couldn't find either of their PP stats. There was no data on PP stats for Lemieux but regardless, even if you were to get those stats, it'd still be over 30% by a substantial amount. Karlsson was garbage in his first two years? He was producing at almost .5 PP in his first year and was an NHL all-star the following year. Pylon? [mod]

 

[Fourier]

Pavel Bure would like to say hello.

I saw Bure play his whole career and have seen him many times live. I have never seen anyone skate with the puck at full speed like McDavid. And you can't really appreciate this fully unless you see it in person.

 

[Sempiternal]

I wouldn't do it if I we're the Oilers.

 

[oilerbear]

[Disclaimer: Obviously this would never happen due to the players involved, but it's the offseason, so why not? I apologise in advance if anyone is offended]

Ottawa:
Erik Karlsson
Mark Stone

Edmonton:
Connor McDavid


Reasoning:
Ottawa is not looking likely to become a contender in Karlsson's prime, so by acquiring a younger franchise player they can start rebuilding well.
Edmonton is clearly lacking on defence after Larsson, but has a stacked forward group who could be very dangerous in the next couple seasons. Karlsson could be the last piece for them to be great.
Right now Karlsson and McDavid are arguably the two most valuable assets now, with McDavid having an edge, so I added Stone to even it out and reduce the impact on the Oilers forwards.

Thoughts?

Cup wimnning teams have 3+ top 60 HSCA D.

Karlsson is one of the few Off D to be in the top 180 scorers in the league.
He is quite unique.
But his HSCA d has been brutal.
Resulting in the #178 EVGA 2.57
Forwards have to score .31 EVGF to be able to have shot at a wild card spot.
2.88 EVGF/60 needed.
Their are only 32 forwards in the game who can outscore Karlsson's brutal defence.

Of the top 300 goal scorers
27 are Dmen
They generate 202 Goals.
the 273 forwards generate 3040 goals
93.8% of offence.

So you want men to pass the puck to the forwards
EVA/60
and defend the HSCA.

 

[ekcut]

Oilers block Ottawa's number.

I love how oiler fans always treat McDavid like he is the 2nd coming of Sid Crosby and automatically reject any trade offer. Wait a sec, he IS the 2nd coming....carry on then!

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Cup wimnning teams have 3+ top 60 HSCA D.

Karlsson is one of the few Off D to be in the top 180 scorers in the league.
He is quite unique.
But his HSCA d has been brutal.
Resulting in the #178 EVGA 2.57
Forwards have to score .31 EVGF to be able to have shot at a wild card spot.
2.88 EVGF/60 needed.
Their are only 32 forwards in the game who can outscore Karlsson's brutal defence.

Of the top 300 goal scorers
27 are Dmen
They generate 202 Goals.
the 273 forwards generate 3040 goals
93.8% of offence.

So you want men to pass the puck to the forwards
EVA/60
and defend the HSCA.

arent you the guy who argues that Klefbom is the best d-men in the league?

 

[DJB]

Pass from Sens perspective

 

[rick hawk]

Would any GM want to risk being the guy who traded away a nineteen year old player who could go on to be the best of all time!

 

[Jumptheshark]

Would any GM want to risk being the guy who traded away a nineteen year old player who could go on to be the best of all time!

I am shocked this thread is still open

 

[Sorey*]

Would any GM want to risk being the guy who traded away a nineteen year old player who could go on to be the best of all time!

McDavid isn't best of all-time material. He is Crosby tier, which will give you 110p a season in todays NHL. That's very good, but when Karlsson gives you 80p + the upside of Stone, this trade is equal.

 

[McShogun99]

I saw Bure play his whole career and have seen him many times live. I have never seen anyone skate with the puck at full speed like McDavid. And you can't really appreciate this fully unless you see it in person.

Mcdavid's skating is amazing in person. He will be at his own blueline, you'll blink and then he'll already be in front of the opposing goalie. I've never seen anyone skate so fast before with such minimal effort.

it's an interesting proposal that I think would make Edmonton a real contender.

Why would Karlsson make Edmonton a contender when he can't even make Ottawa a contender?

McDavid isn't best of all-time material. He is Crosby tier, which will give you 110p a season in todays NHL. That's very good, but when Karlsson gives you 80p + the upside of Stone, this trade is equal.

In terms of hockey value it's a pretty equal trade but when you add marketability then this is a very unequal trade. Karlsson and Stone have almost zero market value to the league. Mcdavid is the future face of the league.

 

[garyturner3]

Would any GM want to risk being the guy who traded away a nineteen year old player who could go on to be the best of all time!

Of course not. That's why the fact there's any debate about this one is very amusing. Karlsson is unbelievable and Stone is very, very good himself, but Ottawa makes this deal with no hesitation without a shadow of a doubt.