OT: OT: Lets Go Cardinals! (All Baseball Talk Here) Part 2

Bobby Orrtuzzo

Ya know
Jul 8, 2015
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St. Louis
Romine wanted Runner Interference due to Kiz "going out of Base Path" but. Due to it not being a tag play the Base Path didn't matter.
See I didn’t even realize the ball hit him, I didn’t have the best angle of it but I thought it was one of those situations of knizner’s foot knocking it out of the glove.

After seeing the replay, like I said I can see why they’re mad, but in the end it ended up working out for the good guys.

Side note, that Greene kid from Cincy is pretty damn good.
 

Linkens Mastery

Conductor of the TankTown Express
Jan 15, 2014
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See I didn’t even realize the ball hit him, I didn’t have the best angle of it but I thought it was one of those situations of knizner’s foot knocking it out of the glove.

After seeing the replay, like I said I can see why they’re mad, but in the end it ended up working out for the good guys.

Side note, that Greene kid from Cincy is pretty damn good.
It's definitely the correct call by the rule book. Tho, I can understand the anger from Reds fans.
 

Allens Five Hole

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Jan 17, 2017
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Side note, that Greene kid from Cincy is pretty damn good.
It will take a couple of years to see what the rebuild looks like for them but I really did not understand their moves this past off season. Castillo, Mahle, Greene, Lodolo is a very good 4 man rotation and they would have had Winker and Suarez included in their lineup. They could have invested instead of selling off and I would have expected that squad to definitely compete for the WC spots and division.

However, maybe they thought there was no chance to compete vs. the likes of the Braves or Dodgers and figured why try for a chance to play in WC play in series instead of just doing a tear down and building up with Greene, Lodolo etc.
 

Bluesnatic27

Registered User
Aug 5, 2011
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It will take a couple of years to see what the rebuild looks like for them but I really did not understand their moves this past off season. Castillo, Mahle, Greene, Lodolo is a very good 4 man rotation and they would have had Winker and Suarez included in their lineup. They could have invested instead of selling off and I would have expected that squad to definitely compete for the WC spots and division.

However, maybe they thought there was no chance to compete vs. the likes of the Braves or Dodgers and figured why try for a chance to play in WC play in series instead of just doing a tear down and building up with Greene, Lodolo etc.
The issue is that the Reds are one of those teams that are always rebuilding because they either rush into things before they’re ready or blow everything up as soon as one thing goes wrong. In 2020, they wanted to be contenders, so they sign quite a few players in FA and trade for talents like Bauer. The issues is that they were adding these guys to a nonexistent core that wasn’t supplemented with talent besides Votto. The young talent the team was banking on either wasn’t developed well/well enough (Senzel) or wasn’t ready then (Greene and Lodolo). But now those young players are ready and are contributing to a team that had been gutted after not making the playoffs in 2021. Thus ensuring they will have to rebuild again and wait for the next wave of talent to come in after Greene, Lodolo, Stephenson, etc. will be shipped off after the Reds couldn’t play competitively for the next 3+ years. It’s the Pittsburgh Pirates model of baseball.

I genuinely do not like the Reds, so I’m happy it’s that franchise that suffers. But I still feel for the fans that have to deal with an owner that will ridicule them for calling out his incompetency.
 

Allens Five Hole

Registered User
Jan 17, 2017
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The issue is that the Reds are one of those teams that are always rebuilding because they either rush into things before they’re ready or blow everything up as soon as one thing goes wrong. In 2020, they wanted to be contenders, so they sign quite a few players in FA and trade for talents like Bauer. The issues is that they were adding these guys to a nonexistent core that wasn’t supplemented with talent besides Votto. The young talent the team was banking on either wasn’t developed well/well enough (Senzel) or wasn’t ready then (Greene and Lodolo). But now those young players are ready and are contributing to a team that had been gutted after not making the playoffs in 2021. Thus ensuring they will have to rebuild again and wait for the next wave of talent to come in after Greene, Lodolo, Stephenson, etc. will be shipped off after the Reds couldn’t play competitively for the next 3+ years. It’s the Pittsburgh Pirates model of baseball.

I genuinely do not like the Reds, so I’m happy it’s that franchise that suffers. But I still feel for the fans that have to deal with an owner that will ridicule them for calling out his incompetency.
I think long term, they made the right decision to sell of and hope for greener pastures but sometimes you see franchises like the Reds who haven't competed in a while just try and "go for it" as in get to the playoffs for playoff revenue without really thinking they've built a contender. To be fair, playoff baseball is probably the most random of all sports. It really comes down to pitching.

Greene and Lodolo are still very young and that is a great start to their rotation. The Reds will continue to be pretty bad for the next 2 years or so but they have already stockpiled a few decent pieces. They got 2 top 60 prospects for Castillo including one that was rated as high as top 10 by some in Noevli Marte. They already have Elly De La Cruz who is 20 and absolutely mashed at AA this year. They are building slowly but I think, if they can hit on a couple of these guys, they can then use free agency to solidify the roster.

It'll be a long road and I don't really care where it goes personally*, but I think they are on the right path.


*except for when Lodolo pitches as I have him in my dynasty fantasy baseball league :naughty:
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
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this team has all the makings of a 1 and done playoff team
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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We absolutely need to get a strong 3rd bat for the lineup in the off-season. The drop off from Goldy and Arenado is pretty significant. Even just someone that's good for 20ish HRs, 80ish RBIs, and a .270+ average, just a consistent bat with some pop to help out. And then if any of the young guys breakout on top of that, then we have a really good lineup.
 

Daley Tarasenkshow

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Nov 7, 2012
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We absolutely need to get a strong 3rd bat for the lineup in the off-season. The drop off from Goldy and Arenado is pretty significant. Even just someone that's good for 20ish HRs, 80ish RBIs, and a .270+ average, just a consistent bat with some pop to help out. And then if any of the young guys breakout on top of that, then we have a really good lineup.
Consistency is key, I feel like so many guys have had moments of being that 3rd bat but haven't kept it going. It looked like O'Neil was that guy after last season, but he's had a tougher year maybe in part due to injuries.

Adding someone like Wilson Contreras, who is probably a dream pickup, would improve the lineup in so many ways. Hopefully Carlson, Gorman, and Yepez find ways to be more consistent heading into next season, and Edman and Donovan can be the contact hitters at the top of the lineup. Plus Walker should be up by mid-season, and who knows what guys like Gomez or Burleson offer long term. That's a pretty deep lineup.
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
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why do we need a 3rd legit bat? we have paul dejong, hes gonna win MVP next year.
 

MissouriMook

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Jul 4, 2014
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Consistency is key, I feel like so many guys have had moments of being that 3rd bat but haven't kept it going. It looked like O'Neil was that guy after last season, but he's had a tougher year maybe in part due to injuries.

Adding someone like Wilson Contreras, who is probably a dream pickup, would improve the lineup in so many ways. Hopefully Carlson, Gorman, and Yepez find ways to be more consistent heading into next season, and Edman and Donovan can be the contact hitters at the top of the lineup. Plus Walker should be up by mid-season, and who knows what guys like Gomez or Burleson offer long term. That's a pretty deep lineup.
Contreras is my #2 target this offseason behind Trea Turner. I'd also like to add another outfield bat, but I doubt DeWitt is going to spend his money like I would.
 

TheDizee

Trade Jordan Kyrou ASAP | ALWAYS RIGHT
Apr 5, 2014
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dejong makes allen craig's collapse in 2014/15 look like childs play.
 

bluesfan94

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We absolutely need to get a strong 3rd bat for the lineup in the off-season. The drop off from Goldy and Arenado is pretty significant. Even just someone that's good for 20ish HRs, 80ish RBIs, and a .270+ average, just a consistent bat with some pop to help out. And then if any of the young guys breakout on top of that, then we have a really good lineup.
To be fair, we have that bat, he's just not consistently healthy.
 

bleedblue1223

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Jan 21, 2011
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To be fair, we have that bat, he's just not consistently healthy.
And it's also not consistently the same person. I know you are referring to O'Neill, but even ignoring health, he's had 1 legitimately MVPish caliber season, and the rest of his career has been pretty garbage at the plate. This season he was great in June and had power in August, but not really good any other time.

And this isn't really a big knock on Mo and the front office like some others might make it. It was completely reasonable to believe O'Neill was at least going to have a pretty good year, even if he wasn't going to replicate last season, and that Carlson would take a step forward in his development because he was really close to hitting those marks last season, but he's slumped. Carlson had a great May and June, but then pretty bad every other month.

So, I don't really fault the Cards front office for this. Between O'Neill and Carlson we should have what I think we need, but they just massively underperformed offensively.
 

bluesfan94

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And it's also not consistently the same person. I know you are referring to O'Neill, but even ignoring health, he's had 1 legitimately MVPish caliber season, and the rest of his career has been pretty garbage at the plate. This season he was great in June and had power in August, but not really good any other time.

And this isn't really a big knock on Mo and the front office like some others might make it. It was completely reasonable to believe O'Neill was at least going to have a pretty good year, even if he wasn't going to replicate last season, and that Carlson would take a step forward in his development because he was really close to hitting those marks last season, but he's slumped. Carlson had a great May and June, but then pretty bad every other month.

So, I don't really fault the Cards front office for this. Between O'Neill and Carlson we should have what I think we need, but they just massively underperformed offensively.
He wasn't consistently healthy until last year either, which is I'm sure part of the reason he was expected to be a contributor this year. The problem is that he was again injured and never really got into a groove. But to expect him to be a 25 HR guy wasn't all that unreasonable. And even looking pretty pedestrian this year and being injured for a lot of it, he's a 15-15 guy with 60 RBI.

I definitely wouldn't worry about the outfield. I would try to add Contreras and a high end starting pitcher like deGrom or Rodon. I would also see if Waino wants to come back, both because he still has the ability to pitch and because I would like to see him get 200.

For next year:
C: Contreras/Knizner
1B: Goldschmidt/Yepez
2B: Gorman/Donovan
SS: Edman
3B: Arenado/Walker
LF: O'Neill/Gomez
CF: Carlson
RF: Burleson/Nootbaar
DH: Walker/Yepez

SP: Montgomery
SP: Flaherty
SP: Mikolas
SP: Rodon
SP: Wainwright/Hudson/Matz

CL: Helsley
RP: Gallegos
RP: Pallante
RP: Romero
RP: Thompson
RP: Hudson/Matz
RP: Cabrera
 
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