Oilers now 13-12-1: THE THREAD THAT'S FUN FOR EVERYONE

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K1900L

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Dec 27, 2019
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'Draisaitl isn't a top forward without McDavid'

>Draisaitl outproduced McDavid this season when McDavid hadn't been injured.
>It was Draisaitl who was doing well in the playoffs last year when separated from McDavid (the first 4-5 games), it was McDavid who was the reason that they had to be brought back together again as he wasn't doing well at all.

They complement one another, this isn't one sided. The reason Draisaitl isn't doing as well as usually is the same reason that McDavid wasn't doing as well: their team utterly sucks, and so do their line mates.
People seem to forget they never got to play on a team as good as those of Kucherov, Matthews or MacKinnon: and still outproduced them.
But let's make claims two games in.
 

canuckking1

Registered User
Feb 8, 2015
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Draisaitl has a total of 51 points in 51 games played, when McDavid is not playing. That makes him an 80 point player, like I was suggesting, he's in the category of stars like Nylander, Rantanen, Marner, not the top dogs like McDavid, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Matthews.

This is as biased as it gets, lol. You know those numbers are skewed because of his rookie and sophomore seasons before he established himself as a top player.

Comparing him to Nylander is laughable. Even grouping Nylander on the same tier as Rantanen is laughable in itself.
 

K1900L

Registered User
Dec 27, 2019
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Well, if we want to play «let's make stupid arguments»:
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TheDoldrums

Registered User
May 3, 2016
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People seem to forget they never got to play on a team as good as those of Kucherov, Matthews MacKinnon: and still outproduced them.
But let's make claims two games in.

what makes those teams good is they don't suck defensively. playing structured hockey makes it harder to put up points so please miss me with this

dallas is a better team than edmonton. if draisaitl went to dallas his production would fall because they play a more disciplined game. there's no basis to the idea that bad team = tougher to produce. bad offensive team that can't score on the pp? sure, but that's never been an issue with the oilers.
 

MCR74

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Nov 11, 2022
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what makes those teams good is they don't suck defensively. playing structured hockey makes it harder to put up points so please miss me with this

dallas is a better team than edmonton. if draisaitl went to dallas his production would fall because they play a more disciplined game. there's no basis to the idea that bad team = tougher to produce. bad offensive team that can't score on the pp? sure, but that's never been an issue with the oilers.

Not to mention who's fault is it that they never got to play on a team as good as those of Kucherov, Matthews MacKinnon? Edmonton built their team around two superstars, a few serviceable players and a bunch of spare parts (this after receiving a shitload of first round picks through the lottery).
 
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K1900L

Registered User
Dec 27, 2019
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what makes those teams good is they don't suck defensively. playing structured hockey makes it harder to put up points so please miss me with this
Oh, come on. They can play structured because they've got a balanced lineup of good players. Three forward lines who have the ability to score and defend and at least 2 quality defenders.
The Oilers have none of this. They can't play a balanced two-way game if only McDrai have the ability to constantly put up points – different to all of these teams.
The Oilers made the conference finals with both McDavid and Draisaitl basically being at around ~2 points per game, and only because of this. If you take their offensive game away to have them play a more defensive game (which is reasonable, I agree), the Oilers are not a playoff team because the other lines will not create any offense.
This is a totally flawed team created by management.
 

Peasy

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May 25, 2012
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Not to mention who's fault is it that they never got to play on a team as good as those of Kucherov, Matthews MacKinnon? Edmonton built their team around two superstars, a few serviceable players and a bunch of spare parts (this after receiving a shitload of first round picks through the lottery).
Its honestly comical how much better their team could be looking with just slightly better drafting in the first round.

2016 - Pulj, imagine they took tkachuk?
2017 - Yams, Oettinger taken 4 picks later
2018 - Bouchard, Not horrible, but i still think Dobson would have been the better pick (taken 2 after)
2019 - Broberg, could have taken any of Zegras, Boldy, or caufield and would be much better
2020 - Holloway, not the worst, but Mercer was 4 picks after
2021 - Bourgault, Johnston was taken with the next pick
2022 - Schaefer, no longer with them, wasnt a fan of that pick at the time

They got one decent NHLer atm out of those 1st round picks lol. Edmonton's scouting is horrendous.
 

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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They got one decent NHLer atm out of those 1st round picks lol. Edmonton's scouting is horrendous.
This isn't new if you're a long-time Oilers' fan. Their drafting has basically been horrendous since 1982.

In 1990, they won the Cup and then drafted in June.... Not a single player they drafted in 1990 ever played one shift in the NHL. Ever.
 

Peasy

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May 25, 2012
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This isn't new if you're a long-time Oilers' fan. Their drafting has basically been horrendous since 1982.

In 1990, they won the Cup and then drafted in June.... Not a single player they drafted in 1990 ever played one shift in the NHL. Ever.
Yeah, its crazy how long some teams can go struggling to draft nhl talent and the orgs make little changes. Montreal was horrible for so long but seems to be better finally. Leafs were the same way, awful drafting for decades, but just now finally it seems like they might be alright and not completely abysmal and useless.

It is extremely difficult to compete in today's NHL without being able to draft nhl talent past a top 5 pick.
 

The Panther

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Mar 25, 2014
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Yeah, its crazy how long some teams can go struggling to draft nhl talent and the orgs make little changes. Montreal was horrible for so long but seems to be better finally. Leafs were the same way, awful drafting for decades, but just now finally it seems like they might be alright and not completely abysmal and useless.

It is extremely difficult to compete in today's NHL without being able to draft nhl talent past a top 5 pick.
I just think, in today's salary-cap / everything-balanced NHL, there's almost no point in trading players.

Like, the past several years --- from Chiarelli (shudder) to Holland --- Edmonton has been trading away wingers: Pat Maroon, Jordan Eberle, Ryan Strome, Jesse Puljujarvi, Kyler Yamamoto, etc., etc. And basically, the lump return for all these guys is... nothing. Why they let Maroon go (and then signed washed-up Lucic for a pile), I don't know. Eberle had peaked, but he's gone on to be a valuable contributor as a 2nd-line type of winger for years. Strome I really liked and felt they didn't give a chance to... He then went to NY, played on the first-unit PP, and scored about a point per game. Puljujarvi and Yamamoto can't beat NHL goalies to save their lives, but they are players that turn the puck in the right direction -- they're dogged and good 'glue'-type players even though they don't score. (Pulu was a fan favorite, too, and Draisaitl loved Yamamoto.)

They basically got diddley-squat for all these wingers, and the result is a top-heavy forward group with a great top six (for now), but a woeful bottom six. And it's the lack of a bottom six that has held the Oilers back.

The defence core is, of course, another issue entirely. But I sort of feel like the Oilers should still be a contender with mediocre D and average goaltending. If they just could come up with a helpful, contributing bottom six, they'd have the necessary support to allow the McDavid / Draisaitl lines to play an attacking game, which I personally think is the style the Oilers should play.

Even the acquisition of Eckholm hasn't necessarily panned out. Don't get me wrong, I love Eckholm and, when healthy, he's easily the best D on the club now. But they traded Tyson Barrie to get him, and the reason they felt they could trade Barrie was because young Bouchard was developing well offensively. And, yes, Bouchard is great on the PP, but he's abysmal defensively. Like, awful. And Tyson Barrie was a crafty veteran who not only ran the PP at the point, but also learned -- eventually -- how not to make bad pinches and give up silly chances defensively. His last season or so in Edmonton, he was very often their best defender (albeit in sheltered minutes). My point is that, while it would seem the Oilers won the Barrie / Eckholm trade, in fact I wonder -- in terms of a short-term cup run in '24 or '25 -- if they wouldn't have been just as well off with Barrie.

Trading assets is just very risky. The Oilers always seem to lose trades, and so it is that they're a top heavy team with no capable bottom six. It's fine to build a run-and-gun offensive team (I actually think they should do that), but you've got to have a competent bottom six so that when the top guys need rests or have a mini-slump, somebody else can pick up the slack.
 
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AvroArrow

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This is as biased as it gets, lol. You know those numbers are skewed because of his rookie and sophomore seasons before he established himself as a top player.

Comparing him to Nylander is laughable. Even grouping Nylander on the same tier as Rantanen is laughable in itself.
Nylander has more even strength goals than Draisaitl over the last 4 seasons, so does Marner lol

The difference has literally been on the PP, but I'm sure McDavid and the absurd amount of PP chances/percent has nothing to do with that.

You should watch more Leafs games, Nylander has emerged as a star. You'll be surprsied.
 

Three On Zero

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Including data from Draisaitl's first two years is effectively not accurate either.
False, that’s how data works. You take all of it, you don’t cherry pick a small portion to make it look better
 

PaulD

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Oilers will make play offs and I'll go one further .....they will be peaking in March and be an extremely tough out .

Nylander has more even strength goals than Draisaitl over the last 4 seasons, so does Marner lol

The difference has literally been on the PP, but I'm sure McDavid and the absurd amount of PP chances/percent has nothing to do with that.

You should watch more Leafs games, Nylander has emerged as a star. You'll be surprsied.
And Draisaitl has been one for years.
 
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Three On Zero

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Let’s skew sample sizes, Hughes is the best player in the NHL and Debrincat is the best goal scorer in the NHL! (Sounds silly now doesn’t it?)
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
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I’m far from an Oilers fan, but the narrative that Draisaitl is a product of McDavid and vice versa just reeks of posters with an agenda.
Both are great players together and on their own as they’ve proven time and time again.
I think the reality is a balance somewhere in between the two extreme positions. I think both guys are superstars even without the other, but I also think that their gaudy stats are because each benefits from playing with the other.

For instance, I don't think Draisaitl drops from being a 120 point player to a 70 point player without McDavid. But I do think he'd be closer to that 90-100 point range rather than the 110+ point range without him. I also think McDavid's not hitting 150 points last year without Draisaitl. He's probably closer to a 120-130 point season without Draisaitl.
 

Edenjung

Registered User
Jun 7, 2018
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Guys, Guys, Guys.
Blaming one Player? Really?
Even a blind man without a cane could see that the defense sucks and the third and fourth Line does not provide anything.
How can one player alone solve this?
Same goes for the goalies. The Team lets them hang Out to dry and don't get any support from the defense.

This is the fault of the managment that did not get the right players during the offseason. And that includes trades.

So stop blaming one Player, blame the Team.
 

ffh

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Jul 16, 2016
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Canucks and ducks are replacing oilers and kraken in playoffs this year.
 

Muffin

Avalanche Flavoured
Aug 14, 2009
17,375
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Edmonton
Again, those numbers include his rookie/sophomore seasons before he broke out. Try running the numbers from 2018-present and they're well over PPG. But that doesn't fit your narrative so why bother?
Look at his PP production vs 5 on 5. Guess who’s feeding him the puck on the PP?
 
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snag

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Feb 22, 2014
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ThIs is what happens when you carry such a low roster count....and that is what happens when you reward potential with large contracts rather than a proven body of work.

Guys on the radio last night said they were surprised McDavid was at the last game (I was surprised to hear them say that tbh) and there was a player only meeting immediately after the game.

If the coaches and management can't hold tou accountable here's hoping they get to holding each other accountable.
 
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