Speculation: Offseason Thread XVII: Trade a spade for a jade

[Lion Hound]

i have no interest whatsoever in Fowler..we'll just have to agree to disagree...i dont wanna be the a-hole that antagonizes a good fan from another board...so lets start over. Nice to have you in the discussion man. But I dont like Fowler, so he wouldnt be a target of mine. Ive wanted the rangers to go after Honka for a while now...he's one of my big time targets.

Agree on Fowler here. Early on, Fowler had this ridiculous hype around him that he was all-star material. I don't see it. One of Miller or Hayes for him? Not a fan of that move at all!

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Pending circumstance.

1. Nash is good
2. Rangers are in playoff position

I am inclined to disagree.

Shortsighted. We're halfway to where we need to be to be competitive for a long, long time. Don't let a low-probability shot at glory this one year prevent you from setting yourself up for a higher-probability shot over multiple years to come. Follow through on the plan.

Good gravy, it's not even the five years every one is so leery of, it's a ONE year turnaround we're looking for and people don't have the necessary patience...

 

[Raspewtin]

Shortsighted. We're halfway to where we need to be to be competitive for a long, long time. Don't let a low-probability shot at glory this one year prevent you from setting yourself up for a higher-probability shot over multiple years to come. Follow through on the plan.

Good gravy, it's not even the five years every one is so leery of, it's a ONE year turnaround we're looking for and people don't have the necessary patience...

You and others are being 100% unrealistic regarding this fictitious scenario. No team in pro sports, not one, voluntarily blows their chance at the playoffs because they aren't convinced they're good enough.

The Rangers are still an excellent team with two absolutely GLARING weaknesses that it won't take 5 years of patience to rebuild. That's true no matter how much some don't want it to be. This team will finish at least top 10 in scoring, with young and exciting forwards at every position. Henrik Lundqvist is older but still himself. This team isn't bad enough and never was bad enough to go in the direction most here yearn for.

 

[GAGLine]

if the rangers are in a playoff position we arent selling anyone... maybe a prospect to add more guys to the current team.

we are going for the cup

So if we're 8th in the conference, we should hang onto Nash because he increases our chances of winning the cup from 3% to 4%?

In 2012-13, we traded Gaborik at the deadline. We were in 9th place at the time, 2 points behind the Islanders, but with 2 games in hand, and 2 points behind NJ with a game in hand and more wins. After the trade, we went 9-3-1.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

So if we're 8th in the conference, we should hang onto Nash because he increases our chances of winning the cup from 3% to 4%?

In 2012-13, we traded Gaborik at the deadline. We were in 9th place at the time, 2 points behind the Islanders, but with 2 games in hand, and 2 points behind NJ with a game in hand and more wins. After the trade, we went 9-3-1.

refer to my previous post on why gaborik is a completely different situation

 

[Lion Hound]

Watch Nash have a bounce back season and the debate will be whether or not to trade Nash at the deadline. The Rangers are a playoff team and they need him to make a "run" at the Cup. The Rangers should trade Nash now that he has reestablished his value and the Rangers are not really a Cup contender.

Gortons actions over the past month lead me to believe that the Rangers will move big Ricky if the return is adequate.

Then there is the business side of this game that could very well rear its ugly head.

Playoff hockey = big buck$ for Ownership.

If the Rangers are in 5-8th spot at the deadline, my guess is they wont move Nash unless its a lopsided trade in their favor.


Looking at this years roster, I have a feeling this club might be more competitive then some of us expect. Feel like this team has a lot of speed that could give some clubs fits to play against. Especially clubs that can't roll 4 lines.

 

[Fitzy]

It's worth noting that Roberto Luongo, a very similar goalie to Lundqvist, is still at the top of his game at age 37. We'll be watching his progression to get a good estimate for what might happen to Hank.

If he drops below .920 for a season we might have a reason to be concerned, but not really until then.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

So if we're 8th in the conference, we should hang onto Nash because he increases our chances of winning the cup from 3% to 4%?

In 2012-13, we traded Gaborik at the deadline. We were in 9th place at the time, 2 points behind the Islanders, but with 2 games in hand, and 2 points behind NJ with a game in hand and more wins. After the trade, we went 9-3-1.

I remember the game against Pittsburgh that same day. Clowe, Moore, Dorsett and Brassard all ended up on the scoresheet with Brass even getting 4 points. That deadline day was amazing.

 

[GAGLine]

refer to my previous post on why gaborik is a completely different situation

You can spin it however you want, but he was a former 40 goal scorer who got traded at the deadline when we were on the playoff bubble. If we are in the same situation this year, are you really saying we should keep Nash because he's better than Gaborik was defensively?

And then there's the fact that trading Gaborik actually improved our team, which completely invalidates your point. If we can do the same thing by trading Nash, we absolutely should.

 

[TheTakedown]

Thompson being on LTIR doesn't do anything for us other than open a roster spot. It has zero effect on the cap unless we are at or near the cap ceiling, which we aren't at the moment. Thompson will still count against the cap even if he is placed on LTIR.

most teams get around that by maximizing current cap use, then putting that guy on LTIR, then sending those players back down. It's not that hard.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

You can spin it however you want, but he was a former 40 goal scorer who got traded at the deadline when we were on the playoff bubble. If we are in the same situation this year, are you really saying we should keep Nash because he's better than Gaborik was defensively?

And then there's the fact that trading Gaborik actually improved our team, which completely invalidates your point. If we can do the same thing by trading Nash, we absolutely should.

Im not saying we should... I'm saying we will.
I want to trade Nash but not if we aren't getting anything for it.. Plus I think all our young talent could use a veteran to teach them how to score in the NHL

 

[Mr Clutch]

Dagoon says on twitter that nash and a dman are in big time. He said gorton is working the phones. Team out west

 

[Revel]

Dagoon says on twitter that nash and a dman are in big time. He said gorton is working the phones. Team out west

Can you provide Dagoon's twitter account? I'd like to follow...

 

[RangerBoy]

Not selling. Trading Nash. The Rangers are not trading Nash and not taking back money and roster player(s)in the trade. The Rangers also land a top young player and/or future #1. Gorton is not selling anyone for pennies on the dollar except Girardi and maybe Staal if he can find a taker who doesn't demand the Rangers give up a top young player. Nash would have been gone already if Gorton was willing to settle for pennies on the dollar. The Rangers have the opportunity to bring back a solid return for Nash. Trade him. I would trade Zuccarello for a younger player even a winger ala the Zibanejad trade. Helps make up for the lack of draft picks. Zibanejad can be a big part of the the Rangers for the next 5-6 years. The Rangers also acquired a 2nd in the trade. The Rangers don't have to worry about replacing him.

 

[Lion Hound]

It's worth noting that Roberto Luongo, a very similar goalie to Lundqvist, is still at the top of his game at age 37. We'll be watching his progression to get a good estimate for what might happen to Hank.

If he drops below .920 for a season we might have a reason to be concerned, but not really until then.

Feels like netminders, specifically elite ones have a longer shelf life then skaters.

Would like to see some advanced stats on that.

 

[TheTakedown]

Unless there's another D acquisition, would it be that big of a deal?

i mean we could stand to lose McIlrath or Holden, which would be a blow if they prove useful to this team

 

[GAGLine]

most teams get around that by maximizing current cap use, then putting that guy on LTIR, then sending those players back down. It's not that hard.

LTIR money is use it or lose it. If we are inflating our cap just to give us some LTIR space and then sending extra players down, we aren't using the LTIR space anyway. Once the player comes back, the LTIR space is gone.

 

[Trxjw]

Pending circumstance.

1. Nash is good
2. Rangers are in playoff position

I am inclined to disagree.

If they're trying to ship him out now for a youth movement, then there's no purpose in keeping him even if he does return to 40 goal form. If anything it means they should be shopping him even harder for a premium return.

Utter buffoonery if they did that. Inexcusably dumb.

 

[NYR Viper]

I have to think that's McIlrath.

 

[Kovalev27]

The style most goalies play now isn't one where being a bit older hurts you. That's what makes what Brodeur did so crazy. Guys that play that way rarely can go to 40. But solid butterfly goalies it's all about getting to your spots and being smart in your reads more than your reflexes and reaction times. If you notice way fewer goalies go down with groin issues than they used to in the 80s 90s. They're protected better as well. Hank is very much in his prime at 34 also didn't come into the league to quickly so doesn't have crazy mileage. He's got a few years left for sure.

Luongo slowing down at 37 though he looked awful in the playoffs. But that's more the age I expect see hank start to slow down although he's always been quicker than Luongo.

 

[TheTakedown]

Girardi could waive his NMC for the expansion draft in return for the Rangers not buying him out for 17-18. That's assuming G can make it through the season in one piece. McPhee is not taking that contract. If G is destined for long term IR,he can waive the NMC. Spend the next 3 seasons collecting his money. That's still a tough situation for the Rangers. They only benefit if they are at or near the upper limit.

true, then all the rangers would have to do is go to arbitration then buy him out during the 2nd buyout period.

Nobody will want that contract--G has been trending down for 3 years now, and he's only going to get worse. Even if he "rebounds" to 2013-14 levels, he's still horrible, and a cap nightmare.

The only other thing that could happen is the rangers could ask him to retire then provide him with a job within the organization. This gives Dan a sort of "life-after-hockey" outlook, and he's able to keep his family in NY.

Otherwise, if the Rangers buy him out Dan is forfeiting 33% of his remaining money, and I can't see him getting another contract AND moving his family just to play one more year in the NHL only to be demoted to the minors.

 

[RealCatFishHunter]

Can you provide Dagoon's twitter account? I'd like to follow...

same!

 

[Mr Clutch]

Can you provide Dagoon's twitter account? I'd like to follow...

Im not sure that its my place to give his twitter handle but if you message him, im sure he will!

 

[TheTakedown]

Gortons actions over the past month lead me to believe that the Rangers will move big Ricky if the return is adequate.

Then there is the business side of this game that could very well rear its ugly head.

Playoff hockey = big buck$ for Ownership.

If the Rangers are in 5-8th spot at the deadline, my guess is they wont move Nash unless its a lopsided trade in their favor.


Looking at this years roster, I have a feeling this club might be more competitive then some of us expect. Feel like this team has a lot of speed that could give some clubs fits to play against. Especially clubs that can't roll 4 lines.

There is a good chance that the trade IS lopsided in the Rangers favor. We know that teams will overpay for proven talent at the trade deadline. If a team is willing to offer a replacement 45 point roster player, a young NHL dman, and a pick (preferably a first rounder), you're looking at almost an exact similar trade that we got for Gaborik--Brassard (45 point roster player), NHL Dman (John Moore), and Dorsett (OK not a pick, but that's easily worth a 2nd or 3rd rounder in the case of Nash, who presumably rebounds into 30 goal form)

 

[DanielBrassard]

You and others are being 100% unrealistic regarding this fictitious scenario. No team in pro sports, not one, voluntarily blows their chance at the playoffs because they aren't convinced they're good enough.

The Rangers are still an excellent team with two absolutely GLARING weaknesses that it won't take 5 years of patience to rebuild. That's true no matter how much some don't want it to be. This team will finish at least top 10 in scoring, with young and exciting forwards at every position. Henrik Lundqvist is older but still himself. This team isn't bad enough and never was bad enough to go in the direction most here yearn for.

Agreed. They won't be trading Nash if he's playing great and they are in a playoff spot.