Speculation: Offseason Thread XVII: Trade a spade for a jade

[NYR2007]

BTW i get that fans here believe we can compete for a cup but you guys are crazy ...
We were a high scoring team last year but that was with two defensemen that could move the puck up the ice. Losing Yandle and Boyle will really change the Rangers the break out... you think its gonna take long for other teams to pick up on Girard and Staal clearing the puck out of the defensive zone by the boards... we will be hemmed in our own zone for a while with the way this team is currently constructed ....

And I'm not even gonna get into the blown defensive coverage by all the defensemen on this team.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

BTW i get that fans here believe we can compete for a cup but you guys are crazy ...
We were a high scoring team last year but that was with two defensemen that could move the puck up the ice. Losing Yandle and Boyle will really change the Rangers the break out... you think its gonna take long for other teams to pick up on Girard and Staal clearing the puck out of the defensive zone by the boards... we will be hemmed in our own zone for a while with the way this team is currently constructed ....

And I'm not even gonna get into the blown defensive coverage by all the defensemen on this team.

Most teams already have picked up on this...

It was so funny to see teams take advantage of the matchup and throw their best forwards out on the ice when either of Staal or G was on.

 

[darko]

BTW i get that fans here believe we can compete for a cup but you guys are crazy ...
We were a high scoring team last year but that was with two defensemen that could move the puck up the ice. Losing Yandle and Boyle will really change the Rangers the break out... you think its gonna take long for other teams to pick up on Girard and Staal clearing the puck out of the defensive zone by the boards... we will be hemmed in our own zone for a while with the way this team is currently constructed ....

And I'm not even gonna get into the blown defensive coverage by all the defensemen on this team.

Not this year. Competing in 2-3 years time. By then we'd need to trade Staal and buyout Girardi. Hopefully McIlrath/Skjei/Graves have all established themselves.

McDonagh-Skjei
Graves-McIlrath

 

[aufheben]

BTW i get that fans here believe we can compete for a cup but you guys are crazy ...
We were a high scoring team last year but that was with two defensemen that could move the puck up the ice. Losing Yandle and Boyle will really change the Rangers the break out... you think its gonna take long for other teams to pick up on Girard and Staal clearing the puck out of the defensive zone by the boards... we will be hemmed in our own zone for a while with the way this team is currently constructed ....

And I'm not even gonna get into the blown defensive coverage by all the defensemen on this team.

If they're pretty fun to watch and we see nice things from the prospects:

Although I do think this forward group would still finish Top-10 in goals even with an iguana moving the puck up-ice.

Not this year. Competing in 2-3 years time. By then we'd need to trade Staal and buyout Girardi. Hopefully McIlrath/Skjei/Graves have all established themselves.

McDonagh-Skjei
Graves-McIlrath

 

[Leetch3]

BTW i get that fans here believe we can compete for a cup but you guys are crazy ...
We were a high scoring team last year but that was with two defensemen that could move the puck up the ice. Losing Yandle and Boyle will really change the Rangers the break out... you think its gonna take long for other teams to pick up on Girard and Staal clearing the puck out of the defensive zone by the boards... we will be hemmed in our own zone for a while with the way this team is currently constructed ....

And I'm not even gonna get into the blown defensive coverage by all the defensemen on this team.

i'm not sure that anyone thinks we can compete without fixing the blueline...some just remain hopefully that with a couple key moves we can do that this offseason

 

[Mac n Gs]

We should change how we break out of the zone anyways. Keep it simple and structured, and play a fast, heavy, north-south game. Fix the neutral zone defense too.

 

[Levitate]

People should remember that Del Zotto was moved especially because the Rangers really needed a right handed D and he struggled when they tried to transition him to that side. Del Zotto might not have been the top puck moving offensive guy they hoped but he was pretty solid when he could play minutes on the left side. Funny thing is that the Rangers tried him on the right side and then traded him while Staal was still trying to find his game after the eye incident.

He wasn't without issues and he was certainly probably more valuable in a trade at that point than Staal was, but I think a decent chunk of the issue with him was being forced to play his off side and not adjusting.

At any rate, oh well.

re: Klein for someone like Honka...in theory it's the kind of deal a team that needs blueline help (which Dallas does) might make to solidfy their lineup if they're thinking "we're a cup team NOW". BUt Dallas might also be willing to wait another year or so for Honka to fit into their system and feel like they'd have a better cup chance then. All kind of up to how they're evaluating their team and needs and if they need to make a move now rather than later or sit tight.

Personally I doubt that trade happens but Dallas probably does need to do something about their D if they want to be a contender

 

[Synergy27]

BTW i get that fans here believe we can compete for a cup but you guys are crazy ...
We were a high scoring team last year but that was with two defensemen that could move the puck up the ice. Losing Yandle and Boyle will really change the Rangers the break out... you think its gonna take long for other teams to pick up on Girard and Staal clearing the puck out of the defensive zone by the boards... we will be hemmed in our own zone for a while with the way this team is currently constructed ....

And I'm not even gonna get into the blown defensive coverage by all the defensemen on this team.

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that many people felt as though Boyle made a positive contribution last year. The guy was awful all over the ice. Your overall point is sound though.

 

[NYRFAN218]

People should remember that Del Zotto was moved especially because the Rangers really needed a right handed D and he struggled when they tried to transition him to that side. Del Zotto might not have been the top puck moving offensive guy they hoped but he was pretty solid when he could play minutes on the left side. Funny thing is that the Rangers tried him on the right side and then traded him while Staal was still trying to find his game after the eye incident.

He wasn't without issues and he was certainly probably more valuable in a trade at that point than Staal was, but I think a decent chunk of the issue with him was being forced to play his off side and not adjusting.

At any rate, oh well.

re: Klein for someone like Honka...in theory it's the kind of deal a team that needs blueline help (which Dallas does) might make to solidfy their lineup if they're thinking "we're a cup team NOW". BUt Dallas might also be willing to wait another year or so for Honka to fit into their system and feel like they'd have a better cup chance then. All kind of up to how they're evaluating their team and needs and if they need to make a move now rather than later or sit tight.

Personally I doubt that trade happens but Dallas probably does need to do something about their D if they want to be a contender

Del Zotto never seemed to be one of AV's favorites and it didn't help he had to play the offside with John Moore. They killed a ton of his value during that 13-14 season because if they dealt it him during the summer like they should have, they would have gotten more than just Kevin Klein. Thankfully the trade worked out pretty well because I wasn't a fan of it at the time.

 

[eco's bones]

Klein for Del Zotto was a great deal for us.

Dan Boyle sucked for the Rangers.....and no NHL team so far this summer has tried to pick him up.

 

[FLYLine27*]

Gorton probably put in a bid.

 

[Levitate]

Klein for Del Zotto was a great deal for us.

Dan Boyle sucked for the Rangers.....and no NHL team so far this summer has tried to pick him up.

Well he did spend the last half of the year talking about how he was going to retire for family reasons and all, even if he hasn't officially announced it

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Do the WCH training camps begin a week from tomorrow?

 

[Ori]

I probably will get crucified for this suggestion....but I am a realist !!! I suggest we trade the King /Staal or Girardi to Dallas for Nichuskin/Honka + & let him win his Cup .

It really stings...but in all reality....it would be the best move for this club moving forward . We add a couple of quality pieces and a future prospect...and by doing so move a bad contract or two which leads to adding a 3rd piece and/or a dman like Shatty .

Nichuskin and Honka are STUDS ! We don't need the best goalie in the World to win a Cup in 2-3 years time[and who is to say he won't slip up some by then?]....a good defense and offense will offset the loss of the King and his 8 million dollar salary .

What could we get for a King ?

I understand your reasoning, and he is one of the best goalie in this league for sure.
Dallas might need a goalie as well - so an interesting trade proposal.

 

[Ori]

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that many people felt as though Boyle made a positive contribution last year. The guy was awful all over the ice. Your overall point is sound though.

yes this, I was actually happy when he retired.

 

[Ola]

I love Jacob Trouba, but Brooks wrote this back in June:

The Rangers are not getting Jacob Trouba out of Winnipeg unless Ryan McDonagh goes the other way. He’s not.

http://nypost.com/2016/06/18/penguins-gms-on-the-fly-roster-building-a-template-for-rangers/

That could mean anything or everything. Having read Larry for two decades and especially seen just how connected he has been with the organization the last while, my interpretation of this is maybe that Brooks asked his sources about Trouba and got a response that he is considered to be way to expensive to us. People have talked about how Gorton has run a quite ship, I think it has been the complete opposite. When Brooks have started to mention a name, like Eric Staal, it has often come to fruition. If we really wanted Trouba, I think we would hear of it from Brooks, not we have the complete opposite scenario were Brooks is telling everyone to forget about it. If we where to swing a trade for Trouba tomorrow, in light of Brooks report that we should forget about it and his previous record of having a great track of who we have been interested in, it would be almost an extreme oddity.

And I think that is understandable. Like from my POV, our best potential offer (excluding McD), might not even get it done. And I am not at all convinced on that Gorton really would be prepared to if not gut at least dig deep into the roster to get Trouba.

I think like an offer of Zucc, Kreider and Skjei makes sense for Winnipeg, its a helluva offer, but look at what NJ got for Larsson. Wouldn't someone be prepared to offer that really great asset for Trouba? We can't compete with that. Kreider, Skjei and Buch, sure we can make great offers. I am not at all 100% sure we are willing to, and even if we did its perfectly possible that we still couldn't get it done.

 

[Ola]

I would love to get Julius Honka too.

But I just want to mention that this is a kid that certainly also has some big challenges ahead of him. His defense is certainly sketchy, he is small and a bit weak, his offense won't make you think of Erik Karlsson II and so forth.

No matter what, I would never hesitate to gamble on a young PMD in a situation like this. We desperately need one, and I think we should have the same approach we had when we made up our minds to get a great goalie and wound up with Hank, after having drafted Blackburn and Montoya with top picks, traded for goalies and picked up many top guys in the AHL. Maloney described at the time how they wouldn't stop the search before they found someone, and eventually they got Hank.

I rather see us making a 2 dumb trades attempting to get a great PMD before succeeding with the 3rd instead of doing nothing at all. Honka could bust/not be what we are looking for, or he can become like a Kimmo Timmonen type. Time will tell. But that is the type of kid we must go after in my opinion.

 

[Ola]

My last topic of the morning, people won't have to search a long time before finding me mentioning guys like Nichkuskin or Bjugstad or J Hayes and the likes in trade proposals.

I still think that size can be important, but after what we have seen in this league the last 2 years, I am shifting more and more and more into only wanting to see size in very limited and specialized roles. To the extent I am not even sure I would be interested in getting Nichkuskin anymore.

Speed and skill -- really the ability to play the game with the puck on your stick, not some kind of Freddy Sjostrom or Jason Chimera type of speed -- is really killing it on the ice. If you look at "good" performers -- in the regular season as well as in the POs -- you will find 9 smurfs per every 6'2 player. Easily.

You know, you can make a very very good argument that "everything else equal", getting someone 6'1 is preferable to getting someone 6'3 in today's game. Like hands down.

I would still look for size, but only in like very defined board monster roles. Getting someone like Marcus Foligno, or someone like that. Grinder player. Cheap good long contract preferably. Then it makes sense. Getting a scorer around 6'3-4, I am not sure we even should be interested in that.

 

[eco's bones]

Well he did spend the last half of the year talking about how he was going to retire for family reasons and all, even if he hasn't officially announced it

His game had deteriorated. We're talking about a puck moving guy known for his offensive production and who got plenty of power play time--there were occasions when he would stay out the entire two minutes of a power play---and he gave us a 20 point season and a 24 point season. He was the weakest D on the puck and the quickest to wear down and he pouted every time he was taken out of the lineup---and in the end there was the tirade out of nowhere against Brooks.

If someone had really wanted him...I think we would have heard something. We can go over to the trade board at HF and I don't recall anyone even bringing him up as an option from July 1 onward.

 

[Irishguy42]

Do the WCH training camps begin a week from tomorrow?

Should be some time next week, I think.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Klein for Del Zotto was a great deal for us.

Dan Boyle sucked for the Rangers.....and no NHL team so far this summer has tried to pick him up.

Agreed. Not a good trade, a great one. I'm surprised so many people like to wax poetic about Michael del zotto. He was maddeningly inconsistent and lacked the type of maturity and professionalism that'd lead you to believe he'd grow into a more consistent player. Both he and Benoit Pouliot got challenged (and rightfully so) early in that 13-14 season. Pouliot responded, del zotto didn't. His misadventure on the right side was simply his dying breath as a Ranger. The writing was on the wall well before then.

Klein has been everything the Rangers could've hoped for and more - and yet, he's thrown around in trade proposals around here daily. Why? Given the state of the Rangers right side, I'd argue he's one of the most indespensible players on the team right now. If you're going to trade him for a 20 year old, might as well get rid of every other veteran while you're at it.

 

[JanErixon20]

I love Jacob Trouba, but Brooks wrote this back in June:


http://nypost.com/2016/06/18/penguins-gms-on-the-fly-roster-building-a-template-for-rangers/

That could mean anything or everything. Having read Larry for two decades and especially seen just how connected he has been with the organization the last while, my interpretation of this is maybe that Brooks asked his sources about Trouba and got a response that he is considered to be way to expensive to us. People have talked about how Gorton has run a quite ship, I think it has been the complete opposite. When Brooks have started to mention a name, like Eric Staal, it has often come to fruition. If we really wanted Trouba, I think we would hear of it from Brooks, not we have the complete opposite scenario were Brooks is telling everyone to forget about it. If we where to swing a trade for Trouba tomorrow, in light of Brooks report that we should forget about it and his previous record of having a great track of who we have been interested in, it would be almost an extreme oddity.

And I think that is understandable. Like from my POV, our best potential offer (excluding McD), might not even get it done. And I am not at all convinced on that Gorton really would be prepared to if not gut at least dig deep into the roster to get Trouba.

I think like an offer of Zucc, Kreider and Skjei makes sense for Winnipeg, its a helluva offer, but look at what NJ got for Larsson. Wouldn't someone be prepared to offer that really great asset for Trouba? We can't compete with that. Kreider, Skjei and Buch, sure we can make great offers. I am not at all 100% sure we are willing to, and even if we did its perfectly possible that we still couldn't get it done.

I mentionend Trouba to a friend of mine (NYR fan), who worked for the Blues organization in the past. He said no way he can come to the Rangers unless Staal or Girardi are sent in the trade or somewhere else, because of the expansion draft. They'd all have to be protected. Not sure if this is true or not, I'm confused as to what the rules are for who has to be protected, etc..

 

[RangerBoy]

Mats Zuccarello to the Dallas Stars for Valeri Nichushkin and Julius Honka. Jeff Gorton wants to get younger with more speed and skill. The Rangers acquire players with more upside than Zuccarello. Same premise as the Mika Zibanejad trade. Maybe the Rangers and Stars can expand the trade to include Kevin Klein who would give the Stars an experienced right handed shooting D. The Rangers sign Nichushkin to a 2 year bridge deal. The Rangers gain a forward with more upside than any Rangers forward. They acquire the elusive right handed shooting D which has seemed to be a target of their's for a while. The Rangers were linked to Tyson Barrie and Sami Vatanen before they became NHL regulars. The Rangers finally fill that need without needing to spend a fortune on an older D. Zibanejad gives the Rangers a big young right handed shooting center which is something they didn't have on the team or in the system. Nichushkin and Honka just continue that philosophy. Acquire high end impact players in trades by giving up some really good players signing to good contracts. Add those young players to the Rangers young players. In the meantime,keep your picks and add more young players. Add a pick in every trade. Jeff Gorton Rebuild 1.01.

 

[Greg02]

I'm surprised so many people like to wax poetic about Michael del zotto.

But those stretch passes his rookie year and that long run of PPG play...

It definitely had me thinking Norris

 

[Gardner McKay]

yes this, I was actually happy when he retired.

Last year Boyle as atrocious. No doubt about it. The year before that he was quite decent.