Offseason Roster Moves, Rumors, and Discussion
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koteka
Registered User
I don’t agree with adding Necas, but I 100% agree with this. We have a team of guys who have not experienced playoff success (except our 4th line center who plenty of people want to get rid of).
People act like it would be the worst thing in the world if we traded Chinakhov and he had success elsewhere. That would actually be great. It would show that the Jackets have scouted Russia well and raise the trade value of our other Russians. A lot of Jackets trades have had very clear winners and losers over the years so maybe people are really afraid of losing trades. But there are trades that make both teams better. It might be nice to have a couple of those.
Jovavic
Concept of a Plan
There's a small chance Johnson becomes better than Necas, I wouldn't hesitate doing that trade. We need better players now, not three years from now.
My expressed sentiment was related to Necas and Johnson in particular. I have no problem trading a guy like Johnson, Chinakhov or Marchenko in general. It has to be a case-by-case decision. For instance, I would have no problem trading the 2024 1st and Johnson for Brady Tkachuk.
I think it's a good general point you're raising that you shouldn't avoid trading away a prospect for a quality player for fear of the possibility of that prospect becoming like that player. That's one of the pitfalls a rebuilding team has to avoid.
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Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Counterpoint: Necas is an example of a longstanding tradition on this board of grossly overvaluing Other Teams' Players mostly for the sake of them being from those other teams without regard to how they'd fit and perform here, followed immediately by an assumption that Something In Columbus Is Inherently Terrible when their lofty expectations shockingly end up not matching reality. For a recent example, see the jubilant reception Laine received when he came here and contrast with what he's seen as now, despite his arguably overperforming what would have been reasonable expectations.
Folks don't downplay Necas because he's A Guy Who's Not A Star. It's because he doesn't fit what's needed here. Those who are downplaying Necas have plenty of suggestions for other players to add here that are also not stars but would likely be better fits. (For example, picking up a shutdown blueliner.)
Let's not act like a current Jacket being moved and suddenly becoming successful elsewhere won't be immediately used here as an argument that the front office is terrible (no matter who's there) and should be fired immediately.
Also confused why we're panting over paying a winger 7+ million dollars when we've already got plenty of wingers. Necas is not a center. He's not the answer, and we wouldn't even be linked in the conversation if it weren't for Waddell.
Also confused why we're panting over paying a winger 7+ million dollars when we've already got plenty of wingers. Necas is not a center. He's not the answer, and we wouldn't even be linked in the conversation if it weren't for Waddell.
Xoggz22
Registered User
I don't disagree with this sentiment at all. My only counterpoint would be that if you think Necas is an upgrade to an area that we feel we may not need, if we moved players that may be similar it opens a spot that would also provide an upgrade and improve the team short and long term.
I'm not set on for our against Necas, but he would be an upgrade AND the deal would need to be right to move redundancy. He may not be a direct need but could provide improvement and flexibility if he can indeed play a top 6 center role. Just an option
- Jan 12, 2011
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This seems a lot like Jarmo-thinking. Are we re-tooling, rebudilding, playoffs now. Heck, we’re all of the above. This team is at least two years away from being a SOLID playoff team. Good players Two or three years sounds about right to me.
Martin is a good player. But he did never have 1 PPG, even though he played with great players, especially defensemen, except for one season he had similar stats on the PP as our top players. Also the playing time was good. You criticize Laine, but he had much better stats with worse teammates, especially defensemen.
Martin is a fast player, talented. But we have plenty of those. On the contrary, we need power forward, with good all around game, play in the front nets.
Martin is a fast player, talented. But we have plenty of those. On the contrary, we need power forward, with good all around game, play in the front nets.
people are just looking at necas's position and saying he's redundant, but show me another player on the cbj roster who gets open in dangerous areas in the offensive zone the way he does.
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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KJ Dangler
Registered User
Yep, this board is hilarious .. we praise the Boone Jenners , and I love his grit , and great player to have on your team .. his career high in points is 49.. To say that Necas is redundant, or we don’t need ? He plays on a stacked Carolina team, doesn’t get 1:30 on the top powerplay every shift , doesn’t play 21 min a night .. is 25 and scored 71 points in a season . He was drafted as a center , played some center in Carolina , but he fits better there as a winger because they have Aho, Staal, Kuznetzov… He’s ultra shifty , fast , great puck carrier , plays with pace , and most teams think he can play center . It’s a no brainer , you have to have someone that can play at Gaudreaus pace , or you might as well trade JG
necas almost certainly plays center if he's not in carolina, and even if he's better on the wing, he'd be a really nice fit here.
short-term, he's a 'pretend' 1C (he's way better suited for that than jenner) – long-term, he's either the #2 center behind fantilli or he's the top line RW next to fantilli, where his game would work really well.
I'm totally fine with ex-Jackets playing well elsewhere.
I'm less fine with us trading them when they've made it pretty obvious that they're good or going to be potentially great here.
Chinakhov is ready to pop, by my eye, and there's a lot of numbers to back it up. Chinakhov just put up a 2.4 P/60, and the Jackets outscored opponents 33-28 with him on the ice. By comparison Marty Necas hasn't topped 2.0 P/60 in his career yet and actually got outscored this year, on the Canes.
Their on ice shooting percentages might seem unfair to Necas - it was a few percentage points lower for Necas. But he's never had particularly good on ice shooting percentages. And I could believe that Chinakhov is the exact sort of player to outscore his shot numbers (his shot and xG numbers aren't anything special).
Chinakhov looks like a really good player to me and I think people will recognize it when he gets his points. He just needs more minutes and a successful role on the top PP to put up big scoring numbers.
All stats at naturalstattrick
I don't know why Necas would be such a natural fit at C. From my understanding, he is a skilled and fast all-offense player who is good at puck transitions and finding open space with his mobility. Sounds like more of a winger to me.
If they want to trade for a top 6 centre, I'd rather see them do something like try to pry Karlsson out of Vegas. I don't know what assets that they possess to realistically accomplish that, though.
If they want to trade for a top 6 centre, I'd rather see them do something like try to pry Karlsson out of Vegas. I don't know what assets that they possess to realistically accomplish that, though.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Re: skepticism on acquiring Necas -
Maybe the concern isn't redundancy alone but the amount of cap devoted to a single position? It's manageable but a not-insignificant concern. (I see some folks are saying yeah he'd play center here. That's one of the ways it's 'manageable.') To be frank, and I'm not blaming the player, but the Laine uncertainty does muck things up a little.
Re: players being good somewhere else after being traded -
The important thing there is if they're going to be/would have been good here. You can't cry over every spilled milk, so to speak. But it cuts both ways - your organization needs to be able to bring out the best in its players.
Maybe the concern isn't redundancy alone but the amount of cap devoted to a single position? It's manageable but a not-insignificant concern. (I see some folks are saying yeah he'd play center here. That's one of the ways it's 'manageable.') To be frank, and I'm not blaming the player, but the Laine uncertainty does muck things up a little.
Re: players being good somewhere else after being traded -
The important thing there is if they're going to be/would have been good here. You can't cry over every spilled milk, so to speak. But it cuts both ways - your organization needs to be able to bring out the best in its players.
a lot of what you just described applies to good playmaking centers, something the blue jackets currently have zero of on their roster.
even if he is a winger, it's not like the blue jackets had consistently good wing play this season, and he gets to the dangerous areas of the ice a hell of a lot better than any of their other wings. plus he has good size (6'2 190) and is an elite skater.
this year was a bit of a down year for him (didn't get PP1 time, was juggled around on the lines, played a lot with bunting and drury) and he still had good numbers. the 22-23 version, when he played with kotkaniemi and svechnikov + got PP1 time, was a stud with good defensive impacts and near point-per-game production.
if he's just a winger, he's a better fit with fantilli long-term than anyone else they have. short-term, his strengths (puck transportation, getting open in dangerous areas, speed) make him an ideal complimentary piece with gaudreau and jenner. necas being just a winger also doesn't preclude them from making additional moves to address the relative weakness at center.
if he can be a center, he'd be a perfect compliment to fantilli, as a right-handed playmaking center who can skate like the wind.
i'd love to bring back karlsson but vegas would almost certainly be looking for quality roster pieces in return, and the jackets simply don't have much to offer there.
KJ Dangler
Registered User
My guess would be KJ would be the player we would package , or someone similar .. seems like Chinakov is first priority of Waddell this offseason .. are you making that trade if it’s KJ and let’s say Boquist ?
Also, count me skeptical that we ever see Laine suit up for the #cbj again . Seeing the Elvis situation , he went into the ocean, screamed and it’s time to put it in the past , doesn’t seem like resources were in place for mental health .. In Pattys case , he was traded here .. Jarmo talked him up as a great playmaker, not just a shooter .. he was asked to carry the puck up the ice , he then offered up to play center because our roster was so barren at the position , I’m guessing he’s looking for a new beginning . I’m reading between the lines , looking also at the Jiricek situation , and seeing why they landed on Waddell as new GM.. Waddell is a connected on a personal level
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assuming a KJ bridge deal and one of chinakhov/marchenko going back to CAR in the trade… i don't think it's a huge concern even if necas is "just" a winger.
even if necas gets $8m that's not getting added to the payroll in a vacuum – you're likely subtracting marchenko's RFA deal (which could be $5-6m) and getting a player who is only 18 months older, is far more established and has a higher ceiling for a net increase of $2-3m.
it also balances the lines better. he'd work extremely well with gaudreau (ability to get open in dangerous spots, speed, awesome at give-and-go plays) – that bumps laine down to L2 and lets him run the show there, a role he played really well in 22-23. helps re-establish some value there and could facilitate a trade if salaries become a headache.
i don't think it'll be a headache, though, since they have plenty of ELCs that run through the rest of laine's deal (fantilli, brindley) or beyond that (dumais) and can do bridge deals for less established RFA guys (kj, sillinger, voronkov).
i always get a big kick out of people pining for anthony duclair and acting like he's the one who got away. he's only ever had success when he's been able to be a passenger on a line with two legitimate star players – that wasn't ever gonna happen here.
The one thing I'm worried about is his ability to stay healthy, obviously he's had a short career so far, but he's gonna struggle if he can only play 50-60games a season.
Necas is a good player but is he really going to make a huge difference? If 100pt Johnny Gaudreau couldnt drastically alter this team's performance, I doubt Marty never been a PPG player Necas is going to.
Yes I understand the allure of adding another proven player but for 7 million+? He's put up 71 points on the high flying Hurricanes, what do you think he's going to do here?
This is a worse investment than Laine was at the time. At least Patty had multiple high goal total seasons and it filled a need. This is just a impatient "give me more established players now" play without addressing the real weakness of this team, defense and centers.
Let me clarify the last point I'm all for more established players, in fact this team desperately needs it, but Necas isnt that guy. This team needs a center and another good defenseman.
Wait until you have another half a season to see if KJ bounces back along with other guys and then reassess.
Yes I understand the allure of adding another proven player but for 7 million+? He's put up 71 points on the high flying Hurricanes, what do you think he's going to do here?
This is a worse investment than Laine was at the time. At least Patty had multiple high goal total seasons and it filled a need. This is just a impatient "give me more established players now" play without addressing the real weakness of this team, defense and centers.
Let me clarify the last point I'm all for more established players, in fact this team desperately needs it, but Necas isnt that guy. This team needs a center and another good defenseman.
Wait until you have another half a season to see if KJ bounces back along with other guys and then reassess.
counter-counterpoint: this board was vehemently against targeting jt miller last year for similar reasons (not a true center, selfish, redundant, doesn't play defense, too expensive, etc) and some went so far as to say he was a negative-value player.
he then went out and put up 100+ points playing center, played all situations (but somehow less TOI/GP than boone jenner) and was the undeniable heart of the canucks, who became one of the best teams in the league overnight.
this board loves to poo-poo on the idea of acquiring any player from another team lol
you're operating under the premise that the blue jackets should only look to add players who can turn the last-place-in-the-east-two-years-running team into a playoff team single-handedly.
cale makar ain't walking through that door! this isn't a turn-based RPG, they're not limited to making one single move this offseason. they can do more than one thing.
the two biggest problems are goaltending and coaching. acquiring necas doesn't fix those, but it still improves the team and doesn't prevent them from addressing other needs, and the order of fixes doesn't matter as long as they're done before camp.
KJ Dangler
Registered User
I love KJ.. let’s be real , who on this team aside from JG can put up 70 points next season ? I would argue nobody .. You aren’t paying JG almost 10 million a year to score 74 and now 60 points . So you have to surround him with people that can play at his pace and allow him to be an actual weapon . That is precisely why you would go out and get a Necas. Until Fantilli becomes that true #1 , you need dynamic puck carriers that can help create offense .
I wouldn't go that far.
I think Necas might be really good here. But we have some bigger needs.
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