Offseason Roster Moves, Rumors, and Discussion

[Viqsi]

counter-counterpoint: this board was vehemently against targeting jt miller last year for similar reasons (not a true center, selfish, redundant, doesn't play defense, too expensive, etc) and some went so far as to say he was a negative-value player.

he then went out and put up 100+ points playing center, played all situations (but somehow less TOI/GP than boone jenner) and was the undeniable heart of the canucks, who became one of the best teams in the league overnight.

this board loves to poo-poo on the idea of acquiring any player from another team lol

The biggest, most consistent objection to Miller was his contract. That has not changed.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

The biggest, most consistent objection to Miller was his contract. That has not changed.

it's not an albatross, though.

most teams would jump at the chance to add a top-line, 100-point two-way center for an $8m AAV, even with regression for the last few years of the deal – especially with the cap set to increase quite a bit in the next few years.

 

[EspenK]

I wouldn't go that far.

I think Necas might be really good here. But we have some bigger needs.

But he is very likely to be available. He is also the right age to help this team for a long time. And Waddell thinks he is a very good player.

Granted we have other needs but are comparable targets available? I don't know but I'm guessing there aren't many who would be ideal acquiusitions.

 

[Viqsi]

it's not an albatross, though.

most teams would jump at the chance to add a top-line, 100-point two-way center for an $8m AAV, even with regression for the last few years of the deal – especially with the cap set to increase quite a bit in the next few years.

His career trajectory at the time suggested otherwise.

I think, though, the real moral of the story is that one has to consider players as themselves, not as "Blue Jacket therefore bad" or "outside player therefore bad" or whatever. And as himself, I don't think Necas suits what we need.

 

[Viqsi]

But he is very likely to be available. He is also the right age to help this team for a long time. And Waddell thinks he is a very good player.

Granted we have other needs but are comparable targets available? I don't know but I'm guessing there aren't many who would be ideal acquiusitions.

Matt Roy in free agency. Or Dylan DeMelo. Or other guys who are just as helpful but aren't getting hyped up but nonetheless get traded in those Surprise Moves that folks don't see coming. Just because his name is popular right now doesn't mean he's the primary option to focus on.

 

[VT]

Yep, this board is hilarious .. we praise the Boone Jenners , and I love his grit , and great player to have on your team .. his career high in points is 49.. To say that Necas is redundant, or we don’t need ? He plays on a stacked Carolina team, doesn’t get 1:30 on the top powerplay every shift , doesn’t play 21 min a night .. is 25 and scored 71 points in a season . He was drafted as a center , played some center in Carolina , but he fits better there as a winger because they have Aho, Staal, Kuznetzov… He’s ultra shifty , fast , great puck carrier , plays with pace , and most teams think he can play center . It’s a no brainer , you have to have someone that can play at Gaudreaus pace , or you might as well trade JG

Kuznetsov came in the end of this season. Also he played in the 4th line. Canes' the second centers were... Kotkaniemi, Drury, Staal (who is a bottom 6 player). I don't claim he can't be a center but defending him for not playing center because of the centers in Carolina is not a very good idea.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

it's not an albatross, though.

most teams would jump at the chance to add a top-line, 100-point two-way center for an $8m AAV, even with regression for the last few years of the deal – especially with the cap set to increase quite a bit in the next few years.

The questions a front office needs to ask are if the player is worth it if he doesn't score 100 points and do we expect him to score 100 points in our lineup.

 

[majormajor]

I think we'd be better off now with JT Miller. He's the primary catalyst on that team, I'd expect him to do well here and especially help the PP.

I don't exactly feel bad for not seeing it a couple years ago, he's had a weird career arc and not a particularly obvious skillset.

 

[Napoli]

you're operating under the premise that the blue jackets should only look to add players who can turn the last-place-in-the-east-two-years-running team into a playoff team single-handedly.

cale makar ain't walking through that door! this isn't a turn-based RPG, they're not limited to making one single move this offseason. they can do more than one thing.

the two biggest problems are goaltending and coaching. acquiring necas doesn't fix those, but it still improves the team and doesn't prevent them from addressing other needs, and the order of fixes doesn't matter as long as they're done before camp.

I'm not operating under that premise. Necas is a good player but he doesnt solve the main issues of this team which are Centers and dmen who can actually play defense.

Necas would help but would add to a glut of wingers this team already has enough of.

If theyre going to use assets, go get a defenseman that can play a shutdown role or a young top 6 center.

I'm not saying either of those easily acquirable hence why I advocated to continue to develop what they have.

Unless people thing KJ isnt going to find his potential, I rather just hang onto to him for less money as this team isnt anywhere close to competing.

 

[DoingItCoolKiwi]

I think we'd be better off now with JT Miller. He's the primary catalyst on that team, I'd expect him to do well here and especially help the PP.

I don't exactly feel bad for not seeing it a couple years ago, he's had a weird career arc and not a particularly obvious skillset.

One of those players I expect to take a dive every season, but they seem to refuse to do so

Kinda like Golden Knights. It's year 5 and I'm still waiting for the hot streak to end

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I'm not operating under that premise. Necas is a good player but he doesnt solve the main issues of this team which are Centers and dmen who can actually play defense.

but they're also lacking a center who can produce like an actual top-line player. aside from fantilli (who is 19) they have four guys (jenner, sillinger, voronkov, kuraly) who have good size/compete level but lack footspeed and playmaking ability

necas has elite speed and plus playmaking ability. having a guy like that in the middle diversifies the center group. also gives them more flexibility in lineup construction (i.e. putting a jenner or voronkov on the wing where their game is more effective + getting more playmaking from the middle of the ice)

Necas would help but would add to a glut of wingers this team already has enough of.

but it's not adding him in a vacuum, it's trading one (or more) wingers to add necas, so the numbers (at worst) don't change. and he might have center/wing flexibility.

If theyre going to use assets, go get a defenseman that can play a shutdown role or a young top 6 center.

it's not mutually exclusive, though. they can fill those needs via cap dump trade (ex: pageau) or free agency (martinez, etc)

the order of operations doesn't really matter. necas is available now, waddell knows him well, and he's likely to be moved before the draft. everything else will happen at or after the draft. but they an do all of it.

Unless people thing KJ isnt going to find his potential, I rather just hang onto to him for less money as this team isnt anywhere close to competing.

again, not mutually exclusive. they can acquire necas and still develop young players – in fact, trading one of those young players (i.e. marchenko) for necas is swapping potential for certainty without compromising too much on age or cap hit – and i'd argue necas has a higher upside than any of their current non-KJ wings anyway.

 

[Viqsi]

but they're also lacking a center who can produce like an actual top-line player. aside from fantilli (who is 19) they have four guys (jenner, sillinger, voronkov, kuraly) who have good size/compete level but lack footspeed and playmaking ability

necas has elite speed and plus playmaking ability. having a guy like that in the middle diversifies the center group. also gives them more flexibility in lineup construction (i.e. putting a jenner or voronkov on the wing where their game is more effective + getting more playmaking from the middle of the ice)

Put Necas at center... to put Jenner and/or Voronkov on the wing.

Put a wing at center... to put centers on the wing.

You are aware that there's more to playing center than their roles in the offensive zone, right?


EDIT: I'm being overly mean and hot-takey. If we were getting him at a substantial discount, I could see the merits of attempting this. But the possibility of that outcome strikes me as so close to nonexistent as to be not really worth considering. As it is, I legit do not see how this is any different than the Laine center experiment. The whole point of getting Necas - why there's so much interest in him - is because he's an established guy with an established skillset. That established skillset is not at center.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Put Necas at center... to put Jenner and/or Voronkov on the wing.

Put a wing at center... to put centers on the wing.

You are aware that there's more to playing center than their roles in the offensive zone, right?


EDIT: I'm being overly mean and hot-takey. If we were getting him at a substantial discount, I could see the merits of attempting this. But the possibility of that outcome strikes me as so close to nonexistent as to be not really worth considering. As it is, I legit do not see how this is any different than the Laine center experiment. The whole point of getting Necas - why there's so much interest in him - is because he's an established guy with an established skillset. That established skillset is not at center.

Yes.. and he was drafted as a center , played center for most of his life .. They have Aho, and Stall, they have enough dynamic offensive skill set that they can use their #2 center as a defensive shutdown line . A lot of the teams feel he has the skill set , he’s stuck behind some veterans .. just like Boone played #1 center here , when in reality he’s a 2nd to 3rd line player , with average foot speed , average passing ability , but plays 1min 30 sec of every Powerplay , 20 plus minutes a night … all a product of his team makeup. We commend him for stepping up, at the same point we’ve finished bottom 4 past couple years doing that . Gaudreau needs to play with pace . Needs some dynamic proven skill around him . Not hard to see why we would be interested in Necas .. Waddell touts Necas as the example he uses on the right way to develop a player .. sticking in the minors until he’s ready to be a difference … If KJ or Marchenko goes the other way , you have to give to get .

Laine didn’t play center his whole career , and first 8 nhl games at center ..not remotely a comparable situation.. if anything, our team make up is so devoid of centers , Laine volunteered to play center .

 

[Xoggz22]

For the Necas crowd.... I don't think he would be the only move if that indeed happened (I am skeptical). We can still address other needs and if he is a wing, he's still another upgrade to our roster. My question woud be "at what cost"? It's not a player I want to use our primary chips for that would prohibit us from moving chips to land other more "need" players.

Personally, I'd like to have him in Columbus. I think it's a little short sighted to think he's going to drop off a cliff when he comes here. If he's better, the odds are, everyone else would be better as well. So maybe Johnny goes from 70-85 points because the talent around him improves and supports HIS game too. ????

 

[VT]

For the Necas crowd.... I don't think he would be the only move if that indeed happened (I am skeptical). We can still address other needs and if he is a wing, he's still another upgrade to our roster. My question woud be "at what cost"? It's not a player I want to use our primary chips for that would prohibit us from moving chips to land other more "need" players.

Personally, I'd like to have him in Columbus. I think it's a little short sighted to think he's going to drop off a cliff when he comes here. If he's better, the odds are, everyone else would be better as well. So maybe Johnny goes from 70-85 points because the talent around him improves and supports HIS game too. ????

Don't forget Marchenko and Chinakhov will be more experienced, so it is not fact we need Nečas.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Put Necas at center... to put Jenner and/or Voronkov on the wing.

Put a wing at center... to put centers on the wing.

You are aware that there's more to playing center than their roles in the offensive zone, right?

i get where you're coming from, but there's also more to playing center than just backchecking. the best centers are dynamic playmakers who can create offense and execute zone entries.

two problems that the jackets currently have (among a long list):

1. complete lack of playmaking from center ice
2. wingers who get pushed around

adding an actual playmaking center – whether or not that's necas – and bumping a jenner or voronkov to the wing would seem to make the roster stronger.

The whole point of getting Necas - why there's so much interest in him - is because he's an established guy with an established skillset. That established skillset is not at center.

there's a no true scotsman quality to the "is this guy a center" stuff any time it comes up. in the run-up to last year's draft, there were articles saying fantilli/carlsson/smith were all no-doubt centers, and others quoting scouts saying all three guys were actually going to end up on the wing. same thing is happening this year with lindstrom and helenius, etc.

it happens at the pro level, too, and the answer even changes year-to-year with some guys. max domi's gone from being a center to "definitely not a center" and back god knows how many times. jared mccann's gone back and forth a bunch. same with jt miller, mat barzal, trevor zegras and others. we saw it for years with boone jenner.

to that point, what pascal vincent described in camp last year was essentially positionless hockey, where all three forward positions are interchangeable at any given time. most teams follow that to some degree nowadays.

is he a center? maybe not. is he definitely not a center? i think the jury's still out there.

what he is is a 6'2 right shot playmaking forward who skates like the wind, finds soft areas without the puck and creates/finishes high-danger chances. i'm sure plenty of teams look at that and see a guy they can make effective at center.

even if the jackets aren't one of those teams, i still think the upside of getting him purely as a winger is worth it. they need established players, and he's only 18 months older than marchenko.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

I think it's a little short sighted to think he's going to drop off a cliff when he comes here. If he's better, the odds are, everyone else would be better as well. So maybe Johnny goes from 70-85 points because the talent around him improves and supports HIS game too. ????

yeah i can't believe folks are looking at a guy who scored 70+ points as a 23-year-old playing with jesperi kotkaniemi and are like "yeah his numbers are gonna dip here" lol

if he comes here, he's playing with gaudreau or fantilli (or both). doesn't matter if that's at center or wing, it's still a recipe for marty necas stonks to go way up

if elias pettersson wasn't going to re-sign in vancouver they were apparently prepared to move him to carolina for a package centered around necas. he's not a scrub! he's really, really good!

 

[Viqsi]

i get where you're coming from, but there's also more to playing center than just backchecking. the best centers are dynamic playmakers who can create offense and execute zone entries.

two problems that the jackets currently have (among a long list):

1. complete lack of playmaking from center ice
2. wingers who get pushed around

adding an actual playmaking center – whether or not that's necas – and bumping a jenner or voronkov to the wing would seem to make the roster stronger.


there's a no true scotsman quality to the "is this guy a center" stuff any time it comes up. in the run-up to last year's draft, there were articles saying fantilli/carlsson/smith were all no-doubt centers, and others quoting scouts saying all three guys were actually going to end up on the wing. same thing is happening this year with lindstrom and helenius, etc.

it happens at the pro level, too, and the answer even changes year-to-year with some guys. max domi's gone from being a center to "definitely not a center" and back god knows how many times. jared mccann's gone back and forth a bunch. same with jt miller, mat barzal, trevor zegras and others. we saw it for years with boone jenner.

to that point, what pascal vincent described in camp last year was essentially positionless hockey, where all three forward positions are interchangeable at any given time. most teams follow that to some degree nowadays.

is he a center? maybe not. is he definitely not a center? i think the jury's still out there.

what he is is a 6'2 right shot playmaking forward who skates like the wind, finds soft areas without the puck and creates/finishes high-danger chances. i'm sure plenty of teams look at that and see a guy they can make effective at center.

even if the jackets aren't one of those teams, i still think the upside of getting him purely as a winger is worth it. they need established players, and he's only 18 months older than marchenko.

I will freely admit that quite a bit of my skepticism comes from the fact that the bulk of the folks arguing for Necas as a solution to our center woes and/or that we should get him No Matter What are the same folks who previously were ga-ga over Laine's arrival and now hate him, and then similarly went all googly-eyes over Gaudreau and now dismiss him. That is to say, the attachment to Necas is purely based on hype over the latest Potential Shiny Toy That Comes From Somewhere Else And Is Therefore "Better", followed by a metric f***ton of motivated reasoning.

I look at Necas and I see somebody who could be nice but who I strongly believe will inevitably cost far, far too much because of that kind of hype, and who if we do get him will inevitably be the next focus of frustration and anger for not being The Promised Savior. I do not want any part of that.

 

[koteka]

I'm totally fine with ex-Jackets playing well elsewhere.

I'm less fine with us trading them when they've made it pretty obvious that they're good or going to be potentially great here.

The only assets we have with any value are draft picks and young guys who haven’t reached their potential and look like they have good potential. Other teams aren’t trading a quality veteran for Provorov - they want a young guy who looks like he is about to pop who is cost controlled. So if you aren’t wiling to trade guys like Chinakhov, Voronkov, Mateychuk, etc., then it sounds like you really don’t want to get a good quality veteran through a trade.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Don't forget Marchenko and Chinakhov will be more experienced, so it is not fact we need Nečas.

That you Jarmo ?

 

[majormajor]

The only assets we have with any value are draft picks and young guys who haven’t reached their potential and look like they have good potential. Other teams aren’t trading a quality veteran for Provorov - they want a young guy who looks like he is about to pop who is cost controlled. So if you aren’t wiling to trade guys like Chinakhov, Voronkov, Mateychuk, etc., then it sounds like you really don’t want to get a good quality veteran through a trade.

If the move is for an elite player or someone who helps us at a vital role of need, then sure. In this case I don't think Necas quite covers either box.

 

[majormajor]

it happens at the pro level, too, and the answer even changes year-to-year with some guys. max domi's gone from being a center to "definitely not a center" and back god knows how many times. jared mccann's gone back and forth a bunch. same with jt miller, mat barzal, trevor zegras and others. we saw it for years with boone jenner.

to that point, what pascal vincent described in camp last year was essentially positionless hockey, where all three forward positions are interchangeable at any given time. most teams follow that to some degree nowadays.

is he a center? maybe not. is he definitely not a center? i think the jury's still out there.

what he is is a 6'2 right shot playmaking forward who skates like the wind, finds soft areas without the puck and creates/finishes high-danger chances. i'm sure plenty of teams look at that and see a guy they can make effective at center.

even if the jackets aren't one of those teams, i still think the upside of getting him purely as a winger is worth it. they need established players, and he's only 18 months older than marchenko.

I think we have to be more specific with what exactly the Jackets center needs are.

We don't have a shortage of guys who can sort of look like centers. We don't have a shortage of guys who can play offense at center. Especially since there is little difference in the offensive zone.

And we are pretty good at gaining the zone on the rush. We scored more rush goals than most. 5v5 scoring wasn't bad. 5v4 was the big offensive issue and there is no center role there.

We weren't very good at keeping pucks on the attack - rather than starting the cycle we tend to have a lot of guys who stylistically play like Necas who are one and done on the rush. I don't really think that's a positional issue.

We do have a shortage of centers who make great defensive reads and can shut down the cycle, and just make it easier for our D in our zone. A lot of these quasi centers you mention like Zegras or Domi would not help us with that.

In any case, our center issue isn't as dire as it used to be, it's better to say there is some room for improvement along specific lines. Boone Jenner is the exact sort of straight to the net center that Gaudreau loves to play off of. Voronkov is adept at it as well, though having chemistry with different players from Boone. Fantilli is maybe a few years away from being helpful in the defensive end, so listing him at center instead of wing doesn't help at this point. So it seems to me that adding a responsible two-way center like Elias Lindholm would make sense.

Necas would have to pop defensively in a way that we can't really foresee for him to add something to our team at center. The case for him for now seems to be either as a wing or as an offense only center.

 

[Viqsi]

We do have a shortage of centers who make great defensive reads and can shut down the cycle, and just make it easier for our D in our zone. A lot of these quasi centers you mention like Zegras or Domi would not help us with that.

This right here is probably the thing that has me flinching the most.

 

[koteka]

If the move is for an elite player or someone who helps us at a vital role of need, then sure. In this case I don't think Necas quite covers either box.

I literally said:

“I don’t agree with adding Necas, but I 100% agree with this. We have a team of guys who have not experienced playoff success (except our 4th line center who plenty of people want to get rid of).

People act like it would be the worst thing in the world if we traded Chinakhov and he had success elsewhere.”

 

[Napoli]

but they're also lacking a center who can produce like an actual top-line player. aside from fantilli (who is 19) they have four guys (jenner, sillinger, voronkov, kuraly) who have good size/compete level but lack footspeed and playmaking ability

necas has elite speed and plus playmaking ability. having a guy like that in the middle diversifies the center group. also gives them more flexibility in lineup construction (i.e. putting a jenner or voronkov on the wing where their game is more effective + getting more playmaking from the middle of the ice)


but it's not adding him in a vacuum, it's trading one (or more) wingers to add necas, so the numbers (at worst) don't change. and he might have center/wing flexibility.

it's not mutually exclusive, though. they can fill those needs via cap dump trade (ex: pageau) or free agency (martinez, etc)

the order of operations doesn't really matter. necas is available now, waddell knows him well, and he's likely to be moved before the draft. everything else will happen at or after the draft. but they an do all of it.

again, not mutually exclusive. they can acquire necas and still develop young players – in fact, trading one of those young players (i.e. marchenko) for necas is swapping potential for certainty without compromising too much on age or cap hit – and i'd argue necas has a higher upside than any of their current non-KJ wings anyway.

Like I said before Necas is a goos player but doubt he's anywhere close to as effective in Columbus. Carolina has a lineup that produces offense, do we really need to give up assets for a player of his caliber?

There's a conversation to be had if Waddell doesnt think one of the young guys will get to Necas' level. But honestly, even if they dont, do you really want to lock up another long contract for a 50-60 point winger? Personally I see Marchenko and Chinakhov both getting there. KJ I am slightly doubting of late, but still a ton of potential.

It's not if Necas would make the team better, is he really worth the assets and the contract. 100 pt Gaudreau struggled mightily here, if Necas turns into 35 point player are we still going to like that contract?