Offseason GDT III

[Trolfoli]

The Kings don't make the playoffs with Williams vs. Lucic?

Are you kidding me? This was hilariously awful when someone mentioned it late in the year, and it's still awful.

The Kings were 24, let me say that again TWENTY FOUR points into a playoff spot last year. You really think Lucic made a 24 point difference in the Kings place in the standings?

Quite possibly the most ridiculous thing since people were trying to say Smyth made Kopitar into a Selke candidate.

Again, not saying Lucic was bad by any stretch, but 24 points is 12 wins. Very very few players any probably no one in the NHL is worth 12 more wins than Williams would have been, and Lucic ain't in that group.

So the Kings offense finished last year around 14th? When was the last time that offense was even out of the 20's over the course of a season?

Kings didn't have a defense that could be relied on, with Williams in the top 6 and his crap turnovers, getting pushed around in the defensive zone yes Vancouver or Arizona easily catches the Kings.

How many of the Kings points were from OT in close games? How many times did the Kings score with the goalie pulled? I doubt the Kings are even in those games if Williams is filling Lucic's role.

I guess it's crazy to say this LA Kings team with Williams could miss the playoffs. Someone has a short memory.

 

[I Am Ziggy Palffy]

Been saying that all along: this team still makes the playoffs last season with Williams instead of Lucic. Lucic is the better player but he cost a lot of assets and is now gone for nothing.

Only drawback would be having Williams on the hook for this season, although him at $3.5MM or whatever and the current state of the forward corp sans Lucic isn't really a problem.

They most likely wind up in the same spot: first round exit. It is just so much easier to make this call in hindsight.

As a season seat holder, I was excited for Lucic for entertainment purposes. Really bummed that we got contract year, soft Lucic instead of the animal. All I got was one playoff win and barely any fights or ass-kicking moments at Staples. Now he'll go to a rival, get his retirement contract and have no problem crushing Kings for the next several years.

Williams is a good player but resigning him was hardly the better option. Are we really asking DL to burn another precious year off the core's prime by maintaining a team (1 year older) that missed the playoffs the season before? I'm not a fan at all of the assets lost in trades the past few seasons, notably the Lucic trade, but no way we can blame DL for making calculated, theoretically impact making moves when the chance at the Cup was now. Resigning Williams would have just showed contentment with something less than the Cup for the upcoming season. Things didn't work out much better. I'm sure DL is frustrated as we are.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Kings were a cup team because of the D both times. A stay at home d paired with a puck mover the combinations were perfect.

Doughty-Scuderi
Mitchell-Voynov
Martinez-Greene

Doughty-Muzzin
Mitchell-Voynov
Martinez-RR/Greene

Greene and Scuderi were in their prime.

Last year the D was a mess.
Doughty-McNabb
Martinez-Muzzin
Schenn-Scuderi

 

[Trolfoli]

I know what the final numbers were for Williams bad 2015 season and how they aren't terribly far off from Lucic last season while playing with a rejuvenated Kopitar.

Lot of guys were not up to speed in '15...not sure why you have it out for Williams when there were a lot of guys that didn't perform as needed in '15.

'15 team with Williams missed the playoffs by a point with a negative anomaly of an OT/SO record. '16 team earned over 100 points by having a positive anomaly of an OT record in a division that didn't have two teams play well over their respective heads like VAN/CGY in '15.

Kings still make the playoffs with Williams. Only argument to be made is that the '15 team was better due to Regher being on the team instead of the trash trotted out near the end of the season and into the playoffs in '16.

Regardless, keeping Williams would have led to the same amount of Cups as trading for Lucic except the Kings would have valuable assets. It's horrible asset management to trade valuable commodities for a one-season increase of like six goals.

Williams and Lucic putting up similar numbers, okay. Then Lucic isn't tiny and could actually win puck battle on the boards. Lucic brought a lot more then Williams is capable of, and played in the top 6 all year.

Having it out for Williams, I don't really. He was held responsible for his crap play and was moved due to it. In fact, both Brown and Williams are directly responsible for the Kings needing to trade for a top 6 wing.

Bad asset management: Nope. Lomardi at this time last year was looking to get Voynov back and make another push for the cup. It is not bad asset management to take a chance at winning. It sucks losing assets on the trade, but the Kings may not be in that good of a position for another decade. We don't know when the next time will be.

Edit:
Martinez/Doughty
Muzzin/Voynov

With that on D last year the Kings would have done some damage in the playoffs. At the time of the trade Lombardi still thought he was getting Voynov back.

 

[BigKing]

Williams and Lucic putting up similar numbers, okay. Then Lucic isn't tiny and could actually win puck battle on the boards. Lucic brought a lot more then Williams is capable of, and played in the top 6 all year.

Having it out for Williams, I don't really. He was held responsible for his crap play and was moved due to it. In fact, both Brown and Williams are directly responsible for the Kings needing to trade for a top 6 wing.

Bad asset management: Nope. Lomardi at this time last year was looking to get Voynov back and make another push for the cup. It is not bad asset management to take a chance at winning. It sucks losing assets on the trade, but the Kings may not be in that good of a position for another decade. We don't know when the next time will be.

Edit:
Martinez/Doughty
Muzzin/Voynov

With that on D last year the Kings would have done some damage in the playoffs. At the time of the trade Lombardi still thought he was getting Voynov back.

Then it is foolish to bank on Voynov being able to play again. If you have any inkling that he won't be back, you'd have to realize the defense isn't good enough and you don't trade for Lucic.

It is bad asset management when you make a trade in June based on the return of a player who--at the time of the trade--was indefinitely suspended, facing jail time and the possible threat of deportation. But, hey, this is the management team that for some insane reason allowed Voynov to take part in a practice while suspended. The whole handling of that situation was pretty questionable: now toss in making the Lucic trade because you believe Voynov can play again and it just keeps getting better. So Voynov indirectly cost the Kings two 1st round picks and the rest of the goodies in the Sekera and Lucic trades? Jesus Christ.

After taking the shot with Sekera, he should of sat out on Lucic or anything major until Voynov was resolved unless it was for more defense.

As for Williams, I've stated numerous times Lucic is better. Kings are more than likely still a playoff team with him instead of Lucic though, at least last season.

 

[Trolfoli]

Then it is foolish to bank on Voynov being able to play again. If you have any inkling that he won't be back, you'd have to realize the defense isn't good enough and you don't trade for Lucic.

It is bad asset management when you make a trade in June based on the return of a player who--at the time of the trade--was indefinitely suspended, facing jail time and the possible threat of deportation. But, hey, this is the management team that for some insane reason allowed Voynov to take part in a practice while suspended. The whole handling of that situation was pretty questionable: now toss in making the Lucic trade because you believe Voynov can play again and it just keeps getting better. So Voynov indirectly cost the Kings two 1st round picks and the rest of the goodies in the Sekera and Lucic trades? Jesus Christ.

After taking the shot with Sekera, he should of sat out on Lucic or anything major until Voynov was resolved unless it was for more defense.

As for Williams, I've stated numerous times Lucic is better. Kings are more than likely still a playoff team with him instead of Lucic though, at least last season.

When was the last time someone was banned from the NHL for a domestic violence case? (loss of deportation status, not actual ban) Lots of worse things have happened and those players/front office people are still involved with the NHL. Thinking Voynov was never going to play in the NHL again may have been a stretch at the time.

Also we see through the Toffoli bridge deal that Lombardi was clearly leaving cap space open for Voynov at this time last year. Otherwise Toffoli would have been locked up long term before his 30 goal season.

Where I'm getting stuck with Williams vs Lucic, is who fills Lucic's role on the team last year? Williams would have been a fine player on the 3rd line. That's not what the Kings needed. They needed someone that could carry heavy minutes in the top6. Sure I would rather have Williams on a 1-2 year contract then Brown, but that's not a possibility. I just do not feel that with both Brown and Williams in the top 6 last year that this is a playoff team. There is no argument that's going to make me see it that way.

 

[BigKing]

When was the last time someone was banned from the NHL for a domestic violence case? (loss of deportation status, not actual ban) Lots of worse things have happened and those players/front office people are still involved with the NHL. Thinking Voynov was never going to play in the NHL again may have been a stretch at the time.

Also we see through the Toffoli bridge deal that Lombardi was clearly leaving cap space open for Voynov at this time last year. Otherwise Toffoli would have been locked up long term before his 30 goal season.

Where I'm getting stuck with Williams vs Lucic, is who fills Lucic's role on the team last year? Williams would have been a fine player on the 3rd line. That's not what the Kings needed. They needed someone that could carry heavy minutes in the top6. Sure I would rather have Williams on a 1-2 year contract then Brown, but that's not a possibility. I just do not feel that with both Brown and Williams in the top 6 last year that this is a playoff team. There is no argument that's going to make me see it that way.

Well, the past matters not after Ray Rice. When was the last time a player was indefinitely suspended for a pending domestic violence case for an entire season? I think Voynov was already setting precedent and many people thought he'd be banned. Now, I thought he would be back (do not want to get into the politics of the case again) but I'm not going to make that Lucic trade if I don't know for sure.

I know there is no argument to make you think otherwise: I'm in the same boat as far as this is concerned. Do think you have it out for him a bit since I believe you brought up bad plays from his Conn Smythe playoffs with the time of the game, time of day and where you were when it happened

 

[Kingsfan1]

How many rookies on the roster to start the year?

Forbort, Dowd, Mersch, Auger, Gravel. Maybe Gravel and Auger are later call ups and start the year in Ontario

 

[Brodeur]

Hell, those Oilers dynasties didn't have a perfect LD-RD setup. The Dallas Stars blueline from '99 which Dean Lombardi praised in the past didn't have that setup (only righty was Zubov). The Devils only had one right handed dmen when they won their Cups in 2000 and 2003 (Rafalski) and all of their dmen on their '95 Cup winning team were left handed.

Just have 6 defensemen who can skate and make plays with the puck. Not 3 defensemen who can do that and 3 others who can barely keep up against skilled and/or fast players.

Kings were a cup team because of the D both times. A stay at home d paired with a puck mover the combinations were perfect.

Doughty-Scuderi
Mitchell-Voynov
Martinez-Greene

Doughty-Muzzin
Mitchell-Voynov
Martinez-RR/Greene

Greene and Scuderi were in their prime.

Last year the D was a mess.
Doughty-McNabb
Martinez-Muzzin
Schenn-Scuderi

Devils used the same "stay at home + puckmover" template for their best run (2000-2003). Stevens-Rafalski, Daneyko-Niedermayer, White-Malakhov was fantastic to watch.

It's tough though, since not all lefties can play the right side. I wish I had saved this old article about Niedermayer who did it so effortlessly. He delved into the nuances (being able to make tough passes on your backhand under duress) and why it can be difficult.

The Devils had an all lefty configuration for a few years after they let Rafalski leave. During the regular season it worked well enough but when the pace got ramped up in the playoffs, it was noticeable. Still pains me to think about the Devils having a 3-2 lead in game 7 against Carolina. Andy Greene is playing the right side and flubs a backhanded clearing attempt. Puck is in the back of the net five seconds later.

 

[Trolfoli]

Well, the past matters not after Ray Rice. When was the last time a player was indefinitely suspended for a pending domestic violence case for an entire season? I think Voynov was already setting precedent and many people thought he'd be banned. Now, I thought he would be back (do not want to get into the politics of the case again) but I'm not going to make that Lucic trade if I don't know for sure.

I know there is no argument to make you think otherwise: I'm in the same boat as far as this is concerned. Do think you have it out for him a bit since I believe you brought up bad plays from his Conn Smythe playoffs with the time of the game, time of day and where you were when it happened

Nope... some things just stick in my head. I remember all sorts of random stuff. Which is amusing because a lot of other stuff blows right by. Short handed goals in the playoffs stick out.

Gaborik/Kopitar/Williams
Brown/Carter/Toffoli

That is what I see without Lucic. That top 6 would have been brutal last year.

Lombardi probably figured the chance of completely losing Voynov was really low, or he would have given Sekera more money to stay. He made a judgment call and got it wrong. You still can't sit around and wait for something like that to play out. You have to fix what you can and hope what you can't control works out.

 

[Quattro]

Got to love this board. Certain posters basically disagree with every single thing the team does then when inevitably one or two of those things don't work out great, they come running back here proclaiming how they "called it" blah blah blah.

The 20/20 hindsight and negativity in this thread is asinine. It's June 22nd for god's sake.

 

[KingsFan7824]

As long as Kopitar, Carter, and Toffoli keeps scoring, Gaborik rebounds, Pearson takes another step, and Doughty/Muzzin/Martinez can hang around double digits, they'll be alright. Get whatever out of Brown, other guys chip in, get a little more solid in the defensive zone. As has been the case, whoever comes up from Ontario will have to be given a chance, and be productive with that chance. They'll add someone in free agency or trade.

They don't have to be a contender in October. They have 6 months to figure out how to be.

 

[damacles1156]

The Kings will be a playoff contender again, and probably challenge for the Division again.

Kopitar/Doughty/Quick/Carter/Toffoli,/Muzzin/Pearson, are all too good and productive, they make this team a playoff team.

Simply need some vets/Youth to step up and play well.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Rumor is Hawks are shopping Shaw, I wonder what it would cost. Dude performs and puts up points in regular season and steps up even more in the playoffs. Exactly what this team needs as well as he will be dirty and get under people's skin lol. I'm tired of seeing the Kings get punked around last couple years.

 

[Kingsfan1]

The Kings will be a playoff contender again, and probably challenge for the Division again.

Kopitar/Doughty/Quick/Carter/Toffoli,/Muzzin/Pearson, are all too good and productive, they make this team a playoff team.

Simply need some vets/Youth to step up and play well.

That same team missed the playoffs just a year ago.

 

[damacles1156]

That same team missed the playoffs just a year ago.

With 95 points, and fluke seasons from Calgary and WPG. It's only the second time in history of the NHL, 95 points didn't make a playoff spot.

Pearson also broke his leg, and the Kings lost Slava (2nd pairing D) and never replaced him.

That wasn't a bad team...

 

[KingsFan7824]

With 95 points, and fluke seasons from Calgary and WPG. It's only the second time in history of the NHL, 95 points didn't make a playoff spot.

Pearson also broke his leg, and the Kings lost Slava (2nd pairing D) and never replaced him.

That wasn't a bad team...

And Kopitar had 16 goals.

 

[Steve Zissou]

Got to love this board. Certain posters basically disagree with every single thing the team does then when inevitably one or two of those things don't work out great, they come running back here proclaiming how they "called it" blah blah blah.

The 20/20 hindsight and negativity in this thread is asinine. It's June 22nd for god's sake.

Jesus, here I thought I was the only one that noticed the stench around here...

Some of you need to follow Sully's advice and grab a beer.

 

[Trolfoli]

Got to love this board. Certain posters basically disagree with every single thing the team does then when inevitably one or two of those things don't work out great, they come running back here proclaiming how they "called it" blah blah blah.

The 20/20 hindsight and negativity in this thread is asinine. It's June 22nd for god's sake.

I blame Lombardi. We need some trades! We're like a pack of ravenous dogs. Throw us some scraps!!!!

 

[Omni Owl]

I literally haven't seen anyone say "I called it" in this thread.

 

[theMajor]

That same team missed the playoffs just a year ago.

by 4 points and because of their anomalous 3-15, worst-in-the-league OT record. if they win half of those games, they are in the playoffs. this year? they were best in the league with 12 OT wins and 2 SO wins, good for a 14-6 OT record which was best in the league. people love to act like the Kings were a bad team last year when they werent. they just had really, really, really crappy luck in OT. **** happens. them missing the playoffs really doesnt mean anything in the context you are trying to frame it in

 

[Herby]

I literally haven't seen anyone say "I called it" in this thread.

Because no one has. Just discussing LA Kings trades and personnel moves on an LA Kings message board.

These are the same guys who whine and complain when PGT's after losses have double the amount of posts after wins, even though every board on this site is like that.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Forbort, Dowd, Mersch, Auger, Gravel. Maybe Gravel and Auger are later call ups and start the year in Ontario

I think Gravel makes the team. Auger? Would be surprised if he was called up next year. He's made good strides, though. What about Kempe? I bet he makes his debut this season - whether it's opening night, or later in the season.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

So why do the Kings only offer 4 yrs to Lucic, yet give Anze 8 years?
Doesn't matter if he's the #1 center. He's the same age as Lucic and they
both play heavy games and get beaten on relentlessly. I bet Lucic / agent
asked why they gve Anze 8 yrs, yet the Kings cant give Milan 5 or 6.

I was hoping Anze would have been 8 mil x 7 yrs max.

 

[KingsFan7824]

So why do the Kings only offer 4 yrs to Lucic, yet give Anze 8 years?
Doesn't matter if he's the #1 center. He's the same age as Lucic and they
both play heavy games and get beaten on relentlessly. I bet Lucic / agent
asked why they gve Anze 8 yrs, yet the Kings cant give Milan 5 or 6.

I was hoping Anze would have been 8 mil x 7 yrs max.

Of course it does. How could that not matter?

How many wins has Kopitar contributed to? How many did Lucic? Kopitar is one of the guys that this team has been built around. Everyone would've loved to see Kopitar sign for less money, and fewer years. Except Kopitar, his agent, and his family, which are the only people that count in that particular equation.