GDT: Offseason GDT II

[Kingsfan1]

Pearson is only going to get better and he improved alot later in the year , he got 36 points this year and i wouldnt be shocked to see him get 45-50 next season. He is a cost effective speedy forward who goes to the dirty areas. Trading him would be stupid. All we have to do is let some of the youngsters play. Its their time and its becoming a trend for many teams to let the kids play and they are performing. Look at Chicago. Replace within. Let Gravel, Mersch, Dowd, Forbort play and trade other slow players that are easily replaceable for some picks and restock our prospects pool

 

[tsanuri]

Sure. If they can move Brown's contract out then they can get a couple minor pieces and get back in this thing.

With that anchor the Kings have to trim the roster elsewhere.

Pervious question about cap. Martinez (4) + Toffoli (3.25) = 7.25, -1m (Kempe for Toffoli's roster spot) and you have 6.25M freed up.

then there's
Muzzin/Doughty
????/Barrie
????/????
McNabb/Forbort/Gravel get a year to see who slots where or if any other D make the jump. Then the next year the Kings know what they have, know what they need, and hopefully have some cap space to work with.

Kempe isn't ready yet. Not to mention he's a LW not a RW.
Not all players can make that switch.
And doing so might screw him up more than it helps him or the team.
I think if things continue for him he might get a call up or two next year. But I don't see him being fully ready until that following season. And that is if things go perfect.

 

[kingsboy11]

We have some holes on D but we have far from a crappy D. That's trying to rewrite history in a big way. We had the best GA/G for much of the year. And ended the year at 3rd. We need some help on D but giving up Toffoli creates more problems than it solves.

Exactly how I feel. The defense was good for the majority of the year, but fell apart right after they clinched. Losing Martinez in the playoffs really hurt the team as well. A top 4 D is obviously ideal, but giving up a 30 goal scorer in the process? One that we have so desperately needed for so many years and now that we finally have someone that we have developed ourselves for that matter, and people want to trade him. Again it fills a hole and creates another. I'd much rather trade Pearson (I'm not advocating it btw) as we have Kempe and Mersch coming up. There's nobody to replace Toffoli.

 

[Trolfoli]

The martinez injury exposed LA's lack of depth. Trading Martinez does not solve the issue of what happens when a key d-man goes down.
Sekera was more than a patch IMO as DL really thought he would re-sign. Again DL could not re-sign till the Voynov and Richards situations were resolved, Sekera did not want to wait for that. Also Schenn may have been a patch but he was a depth addition for cheap. Had Martinez not gone down Schenn would not have been forced to play the minutes and situations he was.

Trading Martinez doesn't help next year. Finding a solution to the RHD which is harder to fill then the LHD, does help going forward.

Just keep Muzzin/Martinez on defense for next year, continue needing that good RHD. Try and fill with Gravel playing his off side or Ladue. Still need to fill the position in 2-3 years.

Do you see that trading Toffoli for a defenseman, then Martinez for someone to take Toffoli's spot still makes the Kings defense "garbage", or no?

It is quite possible that's how it turns out. Kings need more depth, but have money tied up in Brown. If you can move Brown then there's plenty of cap space to bring in depth on D. Not being able to move Brown the Kings will need to move other assets to save money and bring in guys that can contribute while making around 1M. These "rookies" will have the inherent risk of busting or not turning out as planned. It's quite possible this all ends in tears, but I'd rather take the risk before the core hits it's exportation date, then to just sit around and say, "that was a hell of a run."

-Option 1: Trade Brown and it rains cash.
-Option 2: risk moving assets to free cap and hopefully get back with what you get in return.
-Option 3: Mediocrity: don't have enough to get over the top... make the playoff some years.... get blow out in the first round.

Am I missing any options?

 

[Peter James Bond II]

Trading Martinez doesn't help next year. Finding a solution to the RHD which is harder to fill then the LHD, does help going forward.

Good to know that the 2 defenseman prospects with the highest skill / upside are both RD: Ladue and Cernak. A Kings' scout called Ladue better than Mike Reilly, who signed with Minnesota and got in some 20 games with them this year. Some hope here!

 

[Trolfoli]

They lost because the team played their worst 5 games of the season at the wrong time. The losses aren't just on D. Everyone of our top end players, no matter what the position, decided to not show up at the same time.
I think it was made worse by playing a team that just 2 years ago were embarrassed by this team.
But trading Martinez for another D doesn't help it leaves the exact same holes.

Exactly! It leaves the same hole. Doesn't help for next year. Is it harder to find a RHD or a LHD at the trade deadline? Which costs more? (I'm talking about a RHD better then Schenn/Polak)

Kempe isn't ready yet. Not to mention he's a LW not a RW.
Not all players can make that switch.
And doing so might screw him up more than it helps him or the team.
I think if things continue for him he might get a call up or two next year. But I don't see him being fully ready until that following season. And that is if things go perfect.

Toffoli and Pearson have both played their off side. It could screw with his development, but they're playing him at center now in the AHL right? Plus Kempe has a nasty shot from the right side, as demonstrated on the PP. Really think he's being groomed to be the 3C though.

Either way getting Kempe up might help make up from a loss of offense.

 

[TheBannermen]

Trading Martinez doesn't help next year. Finding a solution to the RHD which is harder to fill then the LHD, does help going forward.

Just keep Muzzin/Martinez on defense for next year, continue needing that good RHD. Try and fill with Gravel playing his off side or Ladue. Still need to fill the position in 2-3 years.



It is quite possible that's how it turns out. Kings need more depth, but have money tied up in Brown. If you can move Brown then there's plenty of cap space to bring in depth on D. Not being able to move Brown the Kings will need to move other assets to save money and bring in guys that can contribute while making around 1M. These "rookies" will have the inherent risk of busting or not turning out as planned. It's quite possible this all ends in tears, but I'd rather take the risk before the core hits it's exportation date, then to just sit around and say, "that was a hell of a run."

-Option 1: Trade Brown and it rains cash.
-Option 2: risk moving assets to free cap and hopefully get back with what you get in return.
-Option 3: Mediocrity: don't have enough to get over the top... make the playoff some years.... get blow out in the first round.

Am I missing any options?

But you're not freeing cap. You're taking on Tyson Barrie. You're taking on the forward that's supposed to replace Toffoli. Unless you want to move Toffoli and Martinez for picks, which... Christ, I don't even have the words. And what's this fascination with RHD? Yes, they're harder to find. Yes, it would be nice, but we're talking like no team has ever won with two LHD on their second pair.

All in all...

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kings won 48 games and got destroyed in the playoffs because the defense is garbage.

I don't see any way the Kings are contenders next year. Too many holes, not enough coming to fix it all in one year, and Brown. From there you're looking at getting back to being contenders in a couple of years.

They've won 1 playoff game in 2 years. It's time to fill the hole on Defense (Voynov) and stop trying to patch it with guys like Sekera/Schenn. Spend the assets and get it done.

I don't see us falling out of playoff contention, that's just overly pessimistic. I get teams around us are going to get better, but I think a lot of people are selling this team completely short.

And the 'one playoff game in 2 years' thing is literally true but misleading. Like if I say they've only lost two playoff rounds in four years. But I agree with the rest of that paragraph, and I think losing in the manner we did this year, combined with last year, is a huge kick in the shorts for everyone.

Good to know that the 2 defenseman prospects with the highest skill / upside are both RD: Ladue and Cernak. A Kings' scout called Ladue better than Mike Reilly, who signed with Minnesota and got in some 20 games with them this year. Some hope here!

I forget who it was but a scout quoted in his signing article said "this is a pro d-man playing college hockey, I can't believe they convinced him to come back." They're really high on him. I think it's okay for us to be as well.

 

[Trolfoli]

Good to know that the 2 defenseman prospects with the highest skill / upside are both RD: Ladue and Cernak. A Kings' scout called Ladue better than Mike Reilly, who signed with Minnesota and got in some 20 games with them this year. Some hope here!

That would be great!!!

Then the problem is Martinez/Ladue isn't the second pair because 2 puck movers together isn't really a Kings thing.
Muzzin/Doughty
????/Ladue
Martinez/????

Martinez still ends up being the square peg in the round hole, but that's a better problem then the Kings currently have.

Or
Muzzin/Doughty
Martinez/????
????/Ladue
and the Kings still need a RHD. Just a shutdown guy and not a PM.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Exactly! It leaves the same hole. Doesn't help for next year. Is it harder to find a RHD or a LHD at the trade deadline? Which costs more? (I'm talking about a RHD better then Schenn/Polak)



Toffoli and Pearson have both played their off side. It could screw with his development, but they're playing him at center now in the AHL right? Plus Kempe has a nasty shot from the right side, as demonstrated on the PP. Really think he's being groomed to be the 3C though.

Either way getting Kempe up might help make up from a loss of offense.

Think he only played center a couple games and that was because guys were injured.

 

[Trolfoli]

But you're not freeing cap. You're taking on Tyson Barrie. You're taking on the forward that's supposed to replace Toffoli. Unless you want to move Toffoli and Martinez for picks, which... Christ, I don't even have the words. And what's this fascination with RHD? Yes, they're harder to find. Yes, it would be nice, but we're talking like no team has ever won with two LHD on their second pair.

Martinez is a fine 2nd pair guy. He was a great 3rd pairing guy on a cheap contract and scored some big goals for the Kings. I feel there's more of a need of a more dynamic defender on the second pair. They aren't aiming for fine, they're aiming for one of the best defenses in the league (during the playoffs, not regular season).

Edit: Toffoli for the player that fills the RHD. Martinez moved for near NHL ready players, or high picks. The Kings need young high end guys to put them over the top. Pearson/Toffoli/Martinez/Muzzin of yesteryear making 1M. Parayko/Fabbri, Hertl/Donskoi. To get young, impact players you need drat picks or to sell off assets. If there wasn't a cap then there's no need to do this. There's a cap.

I don't see us falling out of playoff contention, that's just overly pessimistic. I get teams around us are going to get better, but I think a lot of people are selling this team completely short.

There's a difference between contending for the playoffs and contending in the playoffs. I don't see the Kings falling out of being in contention for making the playoffs. Which is a bad thing if you don't have a team that can make deep runs. Keeps you from getting the assets to improve as you watch the core age.

 

[Trolfoli]

Think he only played center a couple games and that was because guys were injured.

Wing
Brown/Gaborik/Pearson/Toffoli/Lucic/King/Mersch/Versteeg/Clifford/Nolan

Can play both: Lewis/Andy/Carter

Center
Kopitar/Carter/Lewis/Dowd/Shore/Andy

They may want him at center. Probably won't work out like that.

Edit: Taking a break.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

There's a difference between contending for the playoffs and contending in the playoffs. I don't see the Kings falling out of being in contention for making the playoffs. Which is a bad thing if you don't have a team that can make deep runs. Keeps you from getting the assets to improve as you watch the core age.

In which case I still disagree. I don't see any of the other teams still in it as significantly better than the Kings (except with our obvious holes on D). Not to the blow-it-up-and-start-over extent. Our forward depth was actually arguably the best its ever been, too.

BTW dunno if was you mentioning him earlier but Gudbrandson signed for a year. So he's out as an option too.

 

[Johnny Utah]

The problem is....

1. A top 4 D-man (Doughty, Martinez and Muzzin are top 3).
2. A 3rd line Center (Shore didn't prove he could stick, Dowd played 4th line and Andreoff proved better as a LW).
3. Revamped the 3rd/4th lines. (King, Brown, Shore, Nolan, Clifford are the only ones under NHL contract. Dowd will likely be up. Mersch possibly if they deal King.)

 

[KingsFan7824]

They have Duchene/MacKinnon/Soderberg down the middle. They don't really need a center. They are a little thin on wing.

True. Then trade Barrie for another defenseman, since the Avs would be very thin on D without him.

let's not forget this team finished with one of the best win totals in franchise history, top 3 in GA, and among the top in the league in a lot of advance stats.

This team needs a top 4 D to be a TOP cup contender, but I think only minor changes to remain a contender.

They were also 34-28-20 in regulation, which is 88 points without the extra one in OT/SO. A quarter of their wins came in 3v3 OT. Tampa Bay finished with a worse win/loss differential in regulation, but look what they've done without Stamkos and Stralman, so who knows anything really.

 

[member 88115]

In which case I still disagree. I don't see any of the other teams still in it as significantly better than the Kings (except with our obvious holes on D). Not to the blow-it-up-and-start-over extent. Our forward depth was actually arguably the best its ever been, too.

BTW dunno if was you mentioning him earlier but Gudbrandson signed for a year. So he's out as an option too.

their was tallk in the florida board of trading Gudbranson + for Marcand (BOS) because of how much cap Florida has. Maybe that is why he only got a one year deal

 

[YP44]

True. Then trade Barrie for another defenseman, since the Avs would be very thin on D without him.



They were also 34-28-20 in regulation, which is 88 points without the extra one in OT/SO. A quarter of their wins came in 3v3 OT. Tampa Bay finished with a worse win/loss differential in regulation, but look what they've done without Stamkos and Stralman, so who knows anything really.

I am curious as to what the standings were to look like if ties still remained and there was no point for losing in OT. Anyone have that?

 

[tsanuri]

I am curious as to what the standings were to look like if ties still remained and there was no point for losing in OT. Anyone have that?

https://hockeystandings.info/afterot
That is for ties after OT.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I don't care about the 'loser points' thing at all because we've been on complete opposite ends of the spectrum several times since 2010. People make a way bigger deal out of that than they should.

 

[YP44]

https://hockeystandings.info/afterot
That is for ties after OT.

thanks...still get a point for a OTL though. Kinda neat site

edit: ties after regulation is what that other posted referred to. Looking at that site LA would have finished 3rd in pacific, still got San Jose but without home ice, which didn't do any good anyway

edit 2: All matchups in the west would remain the same. The East is way different

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Wing
Brown/Gaborik/Pearson/Toffoli/Lucic/King/Mersch/Versteeg/Clifford/Nolan

Can play both: Lewis/Andy/Carter

Center
Kopitar/Carter/Lewis/Dowd/Shore/Andy

They may want him at center. Probably won't work out like that.

Edit: Taking a break.

But if they want him at center they would be playing him there. He isn't.

 

[Kingsfan1]

Martinez is a great defenseman and can fill in as a top 4 dman if someone goes out but for him to be a full time too 4 dman is also a problem in my eyes. He is better suited as a #5 which made us a great defensive team when he was however he is being paid as a top 4. I think Dean thought his game would develop furthur along but it has stagnated. Gravel is a Scuderi Mitchell mold dman and should be given a chance along side Doughty. Muzzin is a great dman to man the 2nd unit and this is where we need a RHD maybe Ladue or someone via trade or UFA. Martinez is a movable contract if Gravel arises to the challenge and one of the others youngsters like Forbort or Ladue step up.

Another option we have is we can move Martinez + for a top 4 dman. Sign a #5/6 RHD and roll with

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Trade
Forbort/Scuderi-UFA
Greene

I like this option the best. We have room for Lucic so if we can move Martinez + King/Clifford + prospect im sure we can get a serviceable top 4 RHD.

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik
Lucic-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Dowd/UFA-Brown
Andreoff-Shore-Nolan/Auger

Move Clifford for a pick. With these moves we can keep Brown another year and add few pieces needed and still contend. It also eases buying Brown out

 

[YP44]

if we're trading TTi lets shoot for the moon and go after Adam Larsson. He is at least locked in to a good deal, something that Gudbrandson, Barrie and anyone else mentioned here is not.

 

[YP44]

Martinez is a great defenseman and can fill in as a top 4 dman if someone goes out but for him to be a full time too 4 dman is also a problem in my eyes. He is better suited as a #5 which made us a great defensive team when he was however he is being paid as a top 4. I think Dean thought his game would develop furthur along but it has stagnated. Gravel is a Scuderi Mitchell mold dman and should be given a chance along side Doughty. Muzzin is a great dman to man the 2nd unit and this is where we need a RHD maybe Ladue or someone via trade or UFA. Martinez is a movable contract if Gravel arises to the challenge and one of the others youngsters like Forbort or Ladue step up.

Another option we have is we can move Martinez + for a top 4 dman. Sign a #5/6 RHD and roll with

Gravel-Doughty
Muzzin-Trade
Forbort/Scuderi-UFA
Greene

I like this option the best. We have room for Lucic so if we can move Martinez + King/Clifford + prospect im sure we can get a serviceable top 4 RHD.

Pearson-Kopitar-Gaborik
Lucic-Carter-Toffoli
Mersch-Dowd/UFA-Brown
Andreoff-Shore-Nolan/Auger

Move Clifford for a pick. With these moves we can keep Brown another year and add few pieces needed and still contend. It also eases buying Brown out

elevates gravel too quick too fast. he would be going against top competition in all situations being paired with Drew. Meaning Doughty would have to be cautious to allow for gravel to learn and develop.
Also where is McNabb?

 

[Trolfoli]

In which case I still disagree. I don't see any of the other teams still in it as significantly better than the Kings (except with our obvious holes on D). Not to the blow-it-up-and-start-over extent. Our forward depth was actually arguably the best its ever been, too.

BTW dunno if was you mentioning him earlier but Gudbrandson signed for a year. So he's out as an option too.

Forward depth was about the best it's ever been. Which proved 1 thing to me. Moar Defense! ... The Kings are close to getting back. The road block is 6M tied up in a 3rd line wing preventing the defense from being filled out. In the event that Brown can't be moved you have to get creative with how to get around the cap.

Gudbrandson did just sign. The Panthers have 4 RHD (with that Euro free agent) for next year.

True. Then trade Barrie for another defenseman, since the Avs would be very thin on D without him.



They were also 34-28-20 in regulation, which is 88 points without the extra one in OT/SO. A quarter of their wins came in 3v3 OT. Tampa Bay finished with a worse win/loss differential in regulation, but look what they've done without Stamkos and Stralman, so who knows anything really.

They could pick up a slightly cheaper/less skilled D in the UFA market. Or maybe Martinez + gets it done because the Avs want to save money.

But if they want him at center they would be playing him there. He isn't.

We'll see. Wings are over loaded. Have other holes to fill. 3C is going to look like Dowd/Shore next year after Lewis leaves. I'm guessing they'll throw him in and see what happens. If not we got a nice wing. Just a feeling I got.... could be wrong.

Martinez is a great defenseman and can fill in as a top 4 dman if someone goes out but for him to be a full time too 4 dman is also a problem in my eyes. He is better suited as a #5 which made us a great defensive team when he was however he is being paid as a top 4. I think Dean thought his game would develop furthur along but it has stagnated. Gravel is a Scuderi Mitchell mold dman and should be given a chance along side Doughty. Muzzin is a great dman to man the 2nd unit and this is where we need a RHD maybe Ladue or someone via trade or UFA. Martinez is a movable contract if Gravel arises to the challenge and one of the others youngsters like Forbort or Ladue step up.

This. Martinez is a fine top 4D. He's not going to carry say Schenn (example) on the second pair. Kings need a slightly higher end D. Remember, they're building the best team in the league.

if we're trading TTi lets shoot for the moon and go after Adam Larsson. He is at least locked in to a good deal, something that Gudbrandson, Barrie and anyone else mentioned here is not.

All for it. Barrie was just an example.