GDT: Offseason GDT II

[Trolfoli]

We have some holes on D but we have far from a crappy D. That's trying to rewrite history in a big way. We had the best GA/G for much of the year. And ended the year at 3rd. We need some help on D but giving up Toffoli creates more problems than it solves.

Landing a Barrie (example) for 20 mins on the back end vs Schenn, moving Martinez for a young impact wing (Toffoli of a couple years ago, cheap) wouldn't help even out the offense? Maybe Pearson continues to grow and scores a few more? Maybe Brown misses on missing the net a few more times this year? No probably not. Maybe Kempe comes up and has an impact.

After watching the playoffs, it's clear that fixing the D is more important then a 30 goal scorer. Man this is harsh. Finally a 30 goal scorer and the Kings may have to trade him.

The Kings had vets and cheap young guys. On defense, Muzzin & Martinez have come up and replaced Mitchell/Scuderi/Regehr/Voynov, with regards to the cap. Pearson & Toffoli came up on cheap contracts and they'll need to be paid soon. The problem they have vs Muzzin/Martinez is that the vet forwards aren't retiring/getting deported. The vet forwards are all but immovable. It may come down to moving what can be moved and bring new assets in.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Landing a Barrie (example) for 20 mins on the back end vs Schenn, moving Martinez for a young impact wing (Toffoli of a couple years ago, cheap) wouldn't help even out the offense? Maybe Pearson continues to grow and scores a few more? Maybe Brown misses on missing the net a few more times this year? No probably not. Maybe Kempe comes up and has an impact.

After watching the playoffs, it's clear that fixing the D is more important then a 30 goal scorer. Man this is harsh. Finally a 30 goal scorer and the Kings may have to trade him.

The Kings had vets and cheap young guys. On defense, Muzzin & Martinez have come up and replaced Mitchell/Scuderi/Regehr/Voynov, with regards to the cap. Pearson & Toffoli came up on cheap contracts and they'll need to be paid soon. The problem they have vs Muzzin/Martinez is that the vet forwards aren't retiring/getting deported. The vet forwards are all but immovable. It may come down to moving what can be moved and bring new assets in.

Is Toffoli's value higher than say Pearson + a 2017 first?

 

[TheBannermen]

Avs probably don't want to pay Barrie's contract and Iginla may have hit the wall creating a hole in the top 6.
Barrie is doable. Move out Martinez & Toffoli for cap space. Avs can hit UFA for a replacement that's cheaper.

Initially swapping Barrie for Martinez is a slight upgrade and not adding a D. The Kings will have to wait for the cap to go up the next year or Brown getting picked up. This is about RHD being very hard to find and filling that spot going forward then letting the team grow around it.



The high end UFA's asking for a NMC for the first year or 2 of a contract due to the expansion, would not surprise me at all. They would probably sign with the teams that commit to them.



Great news!!!!! Hamonic wanted to only go to Western Canada. Now the Islanders have Boychuck (NMC), and Hamonic on the right side, and Pulock coming soon. They are also losing Okposo, need a sniper/finisher for the top line. Have had to come to terms with trading a D for a forward over the last. Pulock would be my new target.

Also Ryan Strome could be a reclamation project as a secondary target.



Exactly. Wing is a lot easier to find replacements on. Plus a second paring D is a lot more critical. Plus there are no good RHD coming. (2 next year MIGHT hit UFA. Hard to build on "might".)



Brown!!!!
It hurts no doubt, but moving Martinez out could bring in a nice young RW that could be a possible replacement.



This!

With all due respect, its beginning to feel like you'd do absolutely anything to get a right handed defenseman that even slightly resembles a top 4 now or in the future. Isles need a top line sniper now, which you mean Toffoli (early apologies if I'm wrong, but who else could it be?), and you're targeting Ryan Pulock? A raw, one-way offensive defenseman who is 21 years old with 15 NHL games to his name? Garth Snow becomes GM of the year on that one trade alone. That's just a crazy, desperate move.

 

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

IMO the most important roster moves are to get rid of Scuderi and Schenn. We were in 1st place until they arrived. Replacing them from within (Forbort and Gravel) would be an improvement.

 

[YP44]

Avs probably don't want to pay Barrie's contract and Iginla may have hit the wall creating a hole in the top 6.
Barrie is doable. Move out Martinez & Toffoli for cap space. Avs can hit UFA for a replacement that's cheaper.

Initially swapping Barrie for Martinez is a slight upgrade and not adding a D. The Kings will have to wait for the cap to go up the next year or Brown getting picked up. This is about RHD being very hard to find and filling that spot going forward then letting the team grow around it.



The high end UFA's asking for a NMC for the first year or 2 of a contract due to the expansion, would not surprise me at all. They would probably sign with the teams that commit to them.



Great news!!!!! Hamonic wanted to only go to Western Canada. Now the Islanders have Boychuck (NMC), and Hamonic on the right side, and Pulock coming soon. They are also losing Okposo, need a sniper/finisher for the top line. Have had to come to terms with trading a D for a forward over the last. Pulock would be my new target.

Also Ryan Strome could be a reclamation project as a secondary target.



Exactly. Wing is a lot easier to find replacements on. Plus a second paring D is a lot more critical. Plus there are no good RHD coming. (2 next year MIGHT hit UFA. Hard to build on "might".)



Brown!!!!
It hurts no doubt, but moving Martinez out could bring in a nice young RW that could be a possible replacement.



This!

Ok Barrie > Martinez but if you move out A-mart that is another hole in our top 4, and now you have even less cap space to fill it and lost TT.

I am with you that if it takes trading TT to get that stud RHD than I do it, but they need to come signed to a cheap contract, or cost controlled for a few years going forward.

 

[YP44]

IMO the most important roster moves are to get rid of Scuderi and Schenn. We were in 1st place until they arrived. Replacing them from within (Forbort and Gravel) would be an improvement.

not really their fault that LA fell out of 1st

Scuderi can be burried in the minors with only like $200K counting to the cap. Not a big deal IMO.
Schenn is a UFA.

 

[Trolfoli]

With all due respect, its beginning to feel like you'd do absolutely anything to get a right handed defenseman that even slightly resembles a top 4 now or in the future. Isles need a top line sniper now, which you mean Toffoli (early apologies if I'm wrong, but who else could it be?), and you're targeting Ryan Pulock? A raw, one-way offensive defenseman who is 21 years old with 15 NHL games to his name? Garth Snow becomes GM of the year on that one trade alone. That's just a crazy, desperate move.

Kings have a few years to get this thing back on track before Quick/Carter/Kopitar start heading down the road Brown is on.

Options to fill the 2nd pair RHD. High end Voynov replacement.
-Barrie/Trouba
-UFA (no one)
-UFA next year (Burns/Shattenkirk, maybe they make it to UFA, Shatty wants to go East)
-Internal LaDue
-Trade: Are there any high end top 4 RHD for trade right now? (possibly Barrie/Trouba due to contract demands) Outside of that you're looking at a highly skilled prospect that a team might trade before they're established.

Kings don't have anyone coming and need to fill this hole. Patching it with a bargain option like Schenn didn't work.

Desperation? It's the biggest need and it needs to be filled as soon as possible.

IMO the most important roster moves are to get rid of Scuderi and Schenn. We were in 1st place until they arrived. Replacing them from within (Forbort and Gravel) would be an improvement.

Forbort/Gravel won't be worse, but do they get the team competing for a cup? We'll see.

Is Toffoli's value higher than say Pearson + a 2017 first?

??? It would depend on what the other team was looking for. Pearson & Toffoli are good players, but slightly different. Toffoli at 30G's is probably worth more then Pearson coming off a broken leg with a mediocre season. Is that a late first? I'm not sure what your point is.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Kings have a few years to get this thing back on track before Quick/Carter/Kopitar start heading down the road Brown is on.

Options to fill the 2nd pair RHD. High end Voynov replacement.
-Barrie/Trouba
-UFA (no one)
-UFA next year (Burns/Shattenkirk, maybe they make it to UFA, Shatty wants to go East)
-Internal LaDue
-Trade: Are there any high end top 4 RHD for trade right now? (possibly Barrie/Trouba due to contract demands) Outside of that you're looking at a highly skilled prospect that a team might trade before they're established.

Kings don't have anyone coming and need to fill this hole. Patching it with a bargain option like Schenn didn't work.

Desperation? It's the biggest need and it needs to be filled as soon as possible.



Forbort/Gravel won't be worse, but do they get the team competing for a cup? We'll see.



??? It would depend on what the other team was looking for. Pearson & Toffoli are good players, but slightly different. Toffoli at 30G's is probably worth more then Pearson coming off a broken leg with a mediocre season. Is that a late first? I'm not sure what your point is.

Just wondering if you think Colorado would accept Pearson + a 2017 first for Barrie instead of Toffoli.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Just wondering if you think Colorado would accept Pearson + a 2017 first for Barrie instead of Toffoli.

A better question might be, if Barrie is that good, but Colorado doesn't want to pay him, could they get a center for him? Why settle for a winger, which as everyone knows, is a position that isn't as big of a need for any team?

 

[member 88115]

I would trade Toffoli for a Gudbranson type of players. Young mean with upside. And still keep Martinez

 

[TheBannermen]

Kings have a few years to get this thing back on track before Quick/Carter/Kopitar start heading down the road Brown is on.

Options to fill the 2nd pair RHD. High end Voynov replacement.
-Barrie/Trouba
-UFA (no one)
-UFA next year (Burns/Shattenkirk, maybe they make it to UFA, Shatty wants to go East)
-Internal LaDue
-Trade: Are there any high end top 4 RHD for trade right now? (possibly Barrie/Trouba due to contract demands) Outside of that you're looking at a highly skilled prospect that a team might trade before they're established.

Kings don't have anyone coming and need to fill this hole. Patching it with a bargain option like Schenn didn't work.

Desperation? It's the biggest need and it needs to be filled as soon as possible.



Forbort/Gravel won't be worse, but do they get the team competing for a cup? We'll see.



??? It would depend on what the other team was looking for. Pearson & Toffoli are good players, but slightly different. Toffoli at 30G's is probably worth more then Pearson coming off a broken leg with a mediocre season. Is that a late first? I'm not sure what your point is.

Hold on... so trading Toffoli and Martinez does make the team compete for a cup? What are we doing here? Contending for a cup or not? Because you're all over the place right now. I think the main thing everyone is forgetting is that this team won 48 games last season. Kings likely need to find one or two smaller moves, not this complete and utter overreaction.

 

[Trolfoli]

Ok Barrie > Martinez but if you move out A-mart that is another hole in our top 4, and now you have even less cap space to fill it and lost TT.

I am with you that if it takes trading TT to get that stud RHD than I do it, but they need to come signed to a cheap contract, or cost controlled for a few years going forward.

Moving Amart out will bring assets back. Possible Toffoli replacement. Be a 1M prospect so there'll be risk. That comes with the ELC and non established player.

Swapping Barrie for Martinez for next year would mostly be a wash. It helps looking 2-3 years out. The RHD position is going to be much harder to fill then anything else the Kings need. Hopefully the year after the cap continues to go up, Some salary from Brown or Gaborik can be shed and the space to fill out the defense comes into play.

Also The Kings have a ton of decent defensive prospects. There are a bunch of lefties looking to make the jump. Adding a dynamic RHD allows a lot of flexibility with where the guys on the left slot.

Getting a RHD on a cheap contract: The only reason Barrie/Trouba are being talked about are their contract demands. Would the Kings think about moving Voynov at 4.167? It would have to have taken a massive over payment. About the only way you get a defender like that on a cheap contract is to get a highly skilled prospect and sign them long term and early. The issue with that is finding a team that has the depth to move a high skilled prospect and needs a Toffoli and the risk that the prospect might not pan out.

 

[YP44]

How in the **** do people expect to sign Barrie & Lucic? Only suggestion I have seen is to move martinez too, which IMO makes no sense as we would still be looking for a top 4.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Kings have a few years to get this thing back on track before Quick/Carter/Kopitar start heading down the road Brown is on.


Kings don't have anyone coming and need to fill this hole. Patching it with a bargain option like Schenn didn't work.

Desperation? It's the biggest need and it needs to be filled as soon as possible.

Forbort/Gravel won't be worse, but do they get the team competing for a cup? We'll see.

I think--the silver lining in the last two seasons of black clouds--is that DL and staff realize the 'patch' or quick fix option is a bad one (assets out, crap in). I think this may be one of the things he was referencing when he talked about the org being somewhat 'full of themselves--hey, look, we can just plug ANYONE in and they'll be successful! Vinnie, Schenn, Scuderi...whatever! As bad as some of DLs recent options have been, it's very clear he's moving beyond that as an option/idea.

I agree on the desperation of fixing the D and I agree with some others that fixing the D will assist the offense. Remember us getting 'caught' from behind in the playoffs, or when we DID get out of the zone, it being a 1 or 2 on 5? That's what happens when your D is incompetent in transition.

Forbort and Gravel should be bottom pairing NHL players now. And my opinion was Sutter was simply going with vets like he likes and shielding those guys from failure (hell, even look at McNabb's minutes). The ultimate ceiling has yet to be seen, and Gravel, like Mcnabb, should not be pressed into bigger duty than he is ready for, especially given he's only had one full season of the pros under his belt (coming form college to the pros is a LOT more games for one).

 

[Omni Owl]

I think--the silver lining in the last two seasons of black clouds--is that DL and staff realize the 'patch' or quick fix option is a bad one (assets out, crap in). I think this may be one of the things he was referencing when he talked about the org being somewhat 'full of themselves--hey, look, we can just plug ANYONE in and they'll be successful! Vinnie, Schenn, Scuderi...whatever! As bad as some of DLs recent options have been, it's very clear he's moving beyond that as an option/idea.

I agree on the desperation of fixing the D and I agree with some others that fixing the D will assist the offense. Remember us getting 'caught' from behind in the playoffs, or when we DID get out of the zone, it being a 1 or 2 on 5? That's what happens when your D is incompetent in transition.

Forbort and Gravel should be bottom pairing NHL players now. And my opinion was Sutter was simply going with vets like he likes and shielding those guys from failure (hell, even look at McNabb's minutes). The ultimate ceiling has yet to be seen, and Gravel, like Mcnabb, should not be pressed into bigger duty than he is ready for, especially given he's only had one full season of the pros under his belt (coming form college to the pros is a LOT more games for one).

I almost forgot about DL mentioning the ego of the organization being inflated, that's a quick way to turn into garbage. In fairness, Vinnie slotted into that 3C spot nicely, much better than Gagner would have (who I was an advocate of acquiring). There's a fine line between confidence and arrogance, they need to get on the right side of that line.

Agree, having these guys come in will help our cap situation. I think they'll be up to the task as well, both have been seasoned enough (especially Forbort). Just need to figure out the top 4 D situation, which should be the priority in the offseason. I think Kempe is going to come in next year and have a strong rookie season, which might make someone like Pearson or King expendable, but that's yet to be seen.

 

[YP44]

let's not forget this team finished with one of the best win totals in franchise history, top 3 in GA, and among the top in the league in a lot of advance stats.

This team needs a top 4 D to be a TOP cup contender, but I think only minor changes to remain a contender.

 

[Trolfoli]

Just wondering if you think Colorado would accept Pearson + a 2017 first for Barrie instead of Toffoli.

Won't work from the Kings cap perspective. Don't have the space for Muzzin + Martinez + Barrie. Fill the hard spot and build for the future.

A better question might be, if Barrie is that good, but Colorado doesn't want to pay him, could they get a center for him? Why settle for a winger, which as everyone knows, is a position that isn't as big of a need for any team?

They have Duchene/MacKinnon/Soderberg down the middle. They don't really need a center. They are a little thin on wing.

I would trade Toffoli for a Gudbranson type of players. Young mean with upside. And still keep Martinez

FLD might actually have a RHD come loose at some point. They have Gudbranson/Ekblad/Petrovic and just signed Hultstrom.

Hold on... so trading Toffoli and Martinez does make the team compete for a cup? What are we doing here? Contending for a cup or not? Because you're all over the place right now. I think the main thing everyone is forgetting is that this team won 48 games last season. Kings likely need to find one or two smaller moves, not this complete and utter overreaction.

Kings won 48 games and got destroyed in the playoffs because the defense is garbage.

I don't see any way the Kings are contenders next year. Too many holes, not enough coming to fix it all in one year, and Brown. From there you're looking at getting back to being contenders in a couple of years.

They've won 1 playoff game in 2 years. It's time to fill the hole on Defense (Voynov) and stop trying to patch it with guys like Sekera/Schenn. Spend the assets and get it done.

 

[YP44]

Won't work from the Kings cap perspective. Don't have the space for Muzzin + Martinez + Barrie. Fill the hard spot and build for the future.



They have Duchene/MacKinnon/Soderberg down the middle. They don't really need a center. They are a little thin on wing.



FLD might actually have a RHD come loose at some point. They have Gudbranson/Ekblad/Petrovic and just signed Hultstrom.



Kings won 48 games and got destroyed in the playoffs because the defense is garbage.

I don't see any way the Kings are contenders next year. Too many holes, not enough coming to fix it all in one year, and Brown. From there you're looking at getting back to being contenders in a couple of years.

They've won 1 playoff game in 2 years. It's time to fill the hole on Defense (Voynov) and stop trying to patch it with guys like Sekera/Schenn. Spend the assets and get it done.

The martinez injury exposed LA's lack of depth. Trading Martinez does not solve the issue of what happens when a key d-man goes down.
Sekera was more than a patch IMO as DL really thought he would re-sign. Again DL could not re-sign till the Voynov and Richards situations were resolved, Sekera did not want to wait for that. Also Schenn may have been a patch but he was a depth addition for cheap. Had Martinez not gone down Schenn would not have been forced to play the minutes and situations he was.

 

[TheBannermen]

Kings won 48 games and got destroyed in the playoffs because the defense is garbage.

I don't see any way the Kings are contenders next year. Too many holes, not enough coming to fix it all in one year, and Brown. From there you're looking at getting back to being contenders in a couple of years.

They've won 1 playoff game in 2 years. It's time to fill the hole on Defense (Voynov) and stop trying to patch it with guys like Sekera/Schenn. Spend the assets and get it done.

Do you see that trading Toffoli for a defenseman, then Martinez for someone to take Toffoli's spot still makes the Kings defense "garbage", or no?

 

[Omni Owl]

let's not forget this team finished with one of the best win totals in franchise history, top 3 in GA, and among the top in the league in a lot of advance stats.

This team needs a top 4 D to be a TOP cup contender, but I think only minor changes to remain a contender.

3C might be an issue next year, but the team played well when there wasn't a defined 3C (Shore and Lewis switching off). Ironically, they started falling off a cliff after the VL/Schenn trade, even though it (sort of) addressed the holes. I wonder if that trade messed with the team chemistry too much?

 

[Cook24]

Trade Brown, Pearson, and Forbort for picks. Trade Clifford. Resign Lucic. Sign Yandle, K.Miller, and Helm.
Lucic-Kopitar-Gaborik
Kempe-Carter-Toffoli
King-Helm-Mersch
Andreoff-Dowd-Nolan/Shore

Muzzin-Doughty
Yandle-Miller
Martinez-Greene
Scuds/Gravel

 

[Trolfoli]

let's not forget this team finished with one of the best win totals in franchise history, top 3 in GA, and among the top in the league in a lot of advance stats.

This team needs a top 4 D to be a TOP cup contender, but I think only minor changes to remain a contender.

Sure. If they can move Brown's contract out then they can get a couple minor pieces and get back in this thing.

With that anchor the Kings have to trim the roster elsewhere.

Pervious question about cap. Martinez (4) + Toffoli (3.25) = 7.25, -1m (Kempe for Toffoli's roster spot) and you have 6.25M freed up.

then there's
Muzzin/Doughty
????/Barrie
????/????
McNabb/Forbort/Gravel get a year to see who slots where or if any other D make the jump. Then the next year the Kings know what they have, know what they need, and hopefully have some cap space to work with.

 

[TheBannermen]

Sure. If they can move Brown's contract out then they can get a couple minor pieces and get back in this thing.

With that anchor the Kings have to trim the roster elsewhere.

Pervious question about cap. Martinez (4) + Toffoli (3.25) = 7.25, -1m (Kempe for Toffoli's roster spot) and you have 6.25M freed up.

then there's
Muzzin/Doughty
????/Barrie
????/????
McNabb/Forbort/Gravel get a year to see who slots where or if any other D make the jump. Then the next year the Kings know what they have, know what they need, and hopefully have some cap space to work with.

How nice of Tyson Barrie to play for us for free.

 

[theMajor]

Trade Brown, Pearson, and Forbort for picks. Trade Clifford. Resign Lucic. Sign Yandle, K.Miller, and Helm.

K. Miller as in Kevan Miller of the Boston Bruins? have you seen him play? Id rather take any one single defenseman on the Reign than have him wear a Kings jersey. dude is a pylon. he plays a heavy game but the Kings need more mobile, puck moving dmen and less of the slow, physical dmen. he is a 5/6 dman at best

 

[tsanuri]

Kings won 48 games and got destroyed in the playoffs because the defense is garbage.

I don't see any way the Kings are contenders next year. Too many holes, not enough coming to fix it all in one year, and Brown. From there you're looking at getting back to being contenders in a couple of years.

They've won 1 playoff game in 2 years. It's time to fill the hole on Defense (Voynov) and stop trying to patch it with guys like Sekera/Schenn. Spend the assets and get it done.

They lost because the team played their worst 5 games of the season at the wrong time. The losses aren't just on D. Everyone of our top end players, no matter what the position, decided to not show up at the same time.
I think it was made worse by playing a team that just 2 years ago were embarrassed by this team.
But trading Martinez for another D doesn't help it leaves the exact same holes.