Official Tank Thread of the Toronto Maple Leafs

[FlareKnight]

In the end the key is just getting close to the bottom and praying the RNG gods don't screw us over. A top 2 pick would be unbelievably huge for this team. Getting Marner at 4 was really important and the development of Nylander is excellent. But need as many elite guys as we can get to build around.

So yeah I'm happy the end results of the first 2 games are losing ones. Stay at the bottom of those standings as best as possible.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

After the past 10 humiliating years it really is hard to stay positive during this rebuild.
I've been a huge leaf fan for over 25 years.
But this rebuild should have started with JFJ.

I think most leaf fans could have easily stomached a genuine rebuild if it began 10 years ago.
But starting a rebuild after ten pathetic humiliating years is going to be very difficult to stay supportive through.

 

[Daisy Jane]

After the past 10 humiliating years it really is hard to stay positive during this rebuild.
I've been a huge leaf fan for over 25 years.
But this rebuild should have started with JFJ.

I think most leaf fans could have easily stomached a genuine rebuild if it began 10 years ago.
But starting a rebuild after ten pathetic humiliating years is going to be very difficult to stay supportive through.

why? that is the silliest bit of logic i've ever read.
"it should have happened 10 years ago, but because it didn't I can't support it?"

 

[Gary Nylund]

After the past 10 humiliating years it really is hard to stay positive during this rebuild.
I've been a huge leaf fan for over 25 years.
But this rebuild should have started with JFJ.

I think most leaf fans could have easily stomached a genuine rebuild if it began 10 years ago.
But starting a rebuild after ten pathetic humiliating years is going to be very difficult to stay supportive through.

I've been a fan longer and I feel the opposite way - for the first time in ages, I feel optimistic because we're finally headed in the right direction. It's going to take about 7 years to get to where I'd like to be and there will be a great many baby steps taken along the way. Every little bit of progress will be something for me to be happy about and as long as we keep taking those baby steps in the right direction, I will have no trouble staying positive.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

why? that is the silliest bit of logic i've ever read.
"it should have happened 10 years ago, but because it didn't I can't support it?"

Because I can stomach being utter crap for only so long.
If this rebuild started 10 years ago, it would have long been finished. And if done correctly, we'd be a competent team right now.
But being utter complete crap for 10 years BEFORE we start our rebuild? Patience has long expired.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I've been a fan longer and I feel the opposite way - for the first time in ages, I feel optimistic because we're finally headed in the right direction. It's going to take about 7 years to get to where I'd like to be and there will be a great many baby steps taken along the way. Every little bit of progress will be something for me to be happy about and as long as we keep taking those baby steps in the right direction, I will have no trouble staying positive.

But we've essentially already been through the terrible "10 rebuild years" without the actual rebuild.
And am only now just starting.

You're much more forgiving than I.
Incompetence at that level shouldn't be excused so readily.

 

[cupcrazyman]

What is the point of a tank thread exactly?

We're just being realistic.

 

[Morbo]

Because I can stomach being utter crap for only so long.
If this rebuild started 10 years ago, it would have long been finished. And if done correctly, we'd be a competent team right now.
But being utter complete crap for 10 years BEFORE we start our rebuild? Patience has long expired.

how do you feel this way and yet have been a fan for 25 years though?

 

[Gary Nylund]

But we've essentially already been through the terrible "10 rebuild years" without the actual rebuild.
And am only now just starting.

You're much more forgiving than I.
Incompetence at that level shouldn't be excused so readily.

The guys in charge aren't the same guys who screwed up the previous years, it's a fresh start as far as I'm concerned. The past is the past, let it go is my only advice.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

how do you feel this way and yet have been a fan for 25 years though?

Because this is the lowest time for the leafs since I started following them. We had the Gilmore years, then Quinn/Sundin years. Things were pretty good actually.
But the past 12 years or so are just unacceptable given that the leafs can spend right to the cap ceiling every year.

I know it's just a game and all... but it still hurts watching something you were so passionate about slowly turn to apathy.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

The guys in charge aren't the same guys who screwed up the previous years, it's a fresh start as far as I'm concerned. The past is the past, let it go is my only advice.

It's still MLSE. I blame them for this mess.

I wish I could be like you and stay positive at this disgraceful organization.
I'm trying hard to get excited for the game tonight.
But I'm really not even sure if I can convince myself to even bother watching it.

Which is shocking, given that until relatively recently I organized my entire schedule around not missing a single leaf game.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Because I can stomach being utter crap for only so long.
If this rebuild started 10 years ago, it would have long been finished. And if done correctly, we'd be a competent team right now.
But being utter complete crap for 10 years BEFORE we start our rebuild? Patience has long expired.

says who?

it could have been done "correctly" but it would have still taken 3-4 years longer than that (see Florida, Islanders).

there's no guarantee doing it 10 years ago would meant that it would have been perfect. the management has changed several times.

but whatever. a rebuild is a rebuild regardless of when it started. i don't know how you can see the steps the organization is going and say "whatevs , it's too late."

it's not even the same owners of MLSE. but again. whatever.

 

[I Believe]

We'll be adding so much talent at the 2016 draft, can't wait

Already have 2 1sts, 2 3rds, 2 5ths and 2 6ths going in, and we'll only be adding more as the year goes on.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

says who?

it could have been done "correctly" but it would have still taken 3-4 years longer than that (see Florida, Islanders).

there's no guarantee doing it 10 years ago would meant that it would have been perfect. the management has changed several times.

but whatever. a rebuild is a rebuild regardless of when it started. i don't know how you can see the steps the organization is going and say "whatevs , it's too late."

it's not even the same owners of MLSE. but again. whatever.

The Islanders and Florida suffer largely due to financial constraints.
Teams that can easily spend right to the cap ceiling each year don't typically have such problems completing a rebuild.

So is there ever a time where you've had enough? If the leafs sucked for 20 more years, but "switched management" every few years in between, would you ALWAYS just stay supportive? "The past is the past. New management"?

I'm just pointing out that I'm glad that the leafs have FINALLY started doing things properly. FINALLY.
But I'm still really pissed about how things were handled these past ten years. I don't think it should just be chalked up as "past is the past. GO LEAFS!!"

 

[Daisy Jane]

The Islanders and Florida suffer largely due to financial constraints.
Teams that can easily spend right to the cap ceiling each year don't typically have such problems completing a rebuild.

So is there ever a time where you've had enough? If the leafs sucked for 20 more years, but "switched management" every few years in between, would you ALWAYS just stay supportive? "The past is the past. New management"?

I'm just pointing out that I'm glad that the leafs have FINALLY started doing things properly. FINALLY.
But I'm still really pissed about how things were handled these past ten years. I don't think it should just be chalked up as "past is the past. GO LEAFS!!"

what are you talking about ?

while spending to the cap is helpful in some cases - it doesn't change the fact that drafting, and development is paramount. and if the Leafs had done more of the latter and less of the former we'd be better. and it's like you're complaining about more about the fact that the Leafs didn' spend to the cap properly, vs. drafting and developing our own talent. and if you don't draft well - having all the financial might in the world won't do anything f we don't have that.

And no. I haven't. because if I had enough, I wouldn't be a Leafs fan. I don't see why this ownership group or this management group should be painted broadly with the same brush as the previous regimes. For the most part everyone's oar is stroking the right way.

which goes back to my original point. Saying that you have no patience for something that you wanted done, just not at the time you wanted it done, makes no sense, and it is silly. the entire organization is changing, and you're like "well it's 10 years too late. you didn't do it on my terms." including the fact that , news flash - it might not be pretty the next 10 years either. but at least the mindset is to try and provide a self-sustaining product. Not just throw money at the problem and hope for the best

 

[Throw More Waffles]

what are you talking about ?

while spending to the cap is helpful in some cases - it doesn't change the fact that drafting, and development is paramount. and if the Leafs had done more of the latter and less of the former we'd be better. and it's like you're complaining about more about the fact that the Leafs didn' spend to the cap properly, vs. drafting and developing our own talent. and if you don't draft well - having all the financial might in the world won't do anything f we don't have that.

And no. I haven't. because if I had enough, I wouldn't be a Leafs fan. I don't see why this ownership group or this management group should be painted broadly with the same brush as the previous regimes. For the most part everyone's oar is stroking the right way.

which goes back to my original point. Saying that you have no patience for something that you wanted done, just not at the time you wanted it done, makes no sense, and it is silly. the entire organization is changing, and you're like "well it's 10 years too late. you didn't do it on my terms." including the fact that , news flash - it might not be pretty the next 10 years either. but at least the mindset is to try and provide a self-sustaining product. Not just throw money at the problem and hope for the best

Well, the leafs can spend infinity money on scouting, front office, etc. Plus spend to the ceiling each year.
You can deny how important these advantages are if you like. But you're just in denial.

So it's true I take it. As long as the leafs management and ownership changes every once in a while, you're perfectly content being one of the worst teams in the league year after year.
I just find that strange...

The leafs have been the embarrassment of the league for over 10 years, all while MLSE made over a BILLION DOLLARS in that time. We as fans have been taken advantage of. You should be angry about that. Not complacent.

 

[Ovate]

No we're not!

Nylander and Marner are likely going to be good to very good NHL players, that's true.
Rielly is going to be a very good NHL offensive defenseman, that's true.

The rest of the guys you've listed fall anywhere between the good NHL player and borderline NHL player.

However, name me the very good defensive defenseman.
Name me the very good goaltender.

Who are likely going to be our elite or star players? Marner? Nylander? Our draft pick this year?

This league is, as Jeff O'neill has said many times, a star-driven league. You win because you have stars and you don't win if you don't. We don't, and quite possibly won't have a star from anyone in our organization currently.

The most likely candidate to be a star player in this organization is back playing in the OHL (which is likely a very good thing seeing as the only other option would be to have him stuck with this collection of losers).

Jeff O'Neil is an idiot (or at least ill informed), and nothing he says should be taken at face value. Many other voices are saying that Cups are won based on whoever has the best 3rd line/depth. Regardless, Marner, Nylander, and Rielly can all become star players and I don't understand why you doubt that.

Teams' don't need a defensive defenseman to win a cup. They need all around good defensemen. Classifying defensemen into "offensive" and "defensive" is an easy way to simplify the game down to NHL 2016 standards, but it's not useful in buidling a good team.

You're underrating our existing players and prospects. Brown and Kapenen both have 2nd line potential. Bernier can still become a starter, he's young for a goalie.

 

[King85Kong]

what are you talking about ?

while spending to the cap is helpful in some cases - it doesn't change the fact that drafting, and development is paramount. and if the Leafs had done more of the latter and less of the former we'd be better. and it's like you're complaining about more about the fact that the Leafs didn' spend to the cap properly, vs. drafting and developing our own talent. and if you don't draft well - having all the financial might in the world won't do anything f we don't have that.

And no. I haven't. because if I had enough, I wouldn't be a Leafs fan. I don't see why this ownership group or this management group should be painted broadly with the same brush as the previous regimes. For the most part everyone's oar is stroking the right way.

which goes back to my original point. Saying that you have no patience for something that you wanted done, just not at the time you wanted it done, makes no sense, and it is silly. the entire organization is changing, and you're like "well it's 10 years too late. you didn't do it on my terms." including the fact that , news flash - it might not be pretty the next 10 years either. but at least the mindset is to try and provide a self-sustaining product. Not just throw money at the problem and hope for the best

Very well thought out post. He identified that they are trying to fix the problem. Why give up now? Its like making fun of an over weight person in the gym. You can see they are putting in the effort, don't give up on them.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Very well thought out post. He identified that they are trying to fix the problem. Why give up now? Its like making fun of an over weight person in the gym. You can see they are putting in the effort, don't give up on them.

Seems like too little too late.
By the time mlse FINALLY got around to doing things properly, I was too pissed off to care.

Trust me, I don't like it. I miss when I loyally followed this team. I miss looking forward to game night. I miss all my friends getting together saturday night to watch the game. None of them care anymore. And I'm simply too angry at the outrageous disasters committed by mlse the past 10 years to just "get over it" or chalk it up to "the past is the past".

This whole thing bothers me a little. I think MLSE takes us fans for granted. And seeing fans in this thread just passing off the past 10 years has me worried.

 

[Thissiteisgarbage]

I've just accepted this years team as "those lovable losers who will make you laugh every Saturday night" - not much different from the cast of Gilligan's Island or something.

Phaneuf and Bozak being The Skipper and Gilligan, respectively.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Well, the leafs can spend infinity money on scouting, front office, etc. Plus spend to the ceiling each year.
You can deny how important these advantages are if you like. But you're just in denial.

So it's true I take it. As long as the leafs management and ownership changes every once in a while, you're perfectly content being one of the worst teams in the league year after year.
I just find that strange...

The leafs have been the embarrassment of the league for over 10 years, all while MLSE made over a BILLION DOLLARS in that time. We as fans have been taken advantage of. You should be angry about that. Not complacent.

Let me explain something to you.
MLSE when owned by the teacher's union had to protect their investment. this was stated countless times by Peddie.

At the same time spending the money on competent management is something that the General Manager should do. So blaming MLSE: Teacher's Pension that Brian Burke (who is "noted" and "renowed" and FYI spent money on mangement and to the cap btw) - is not right. Especially that Brian Burke spent it on poor choices.

i never said it wasn't not an advantage, Burke flat out showed spending money for the sake of spending money does nothing. that's your 6 years right there.

You want to spend money wisely, not spend money simply because we have it.

And don't put words in my mouth. I did not say that.
What I said was you can not paint this management group/ ownership group with the same brush.

This ownership group has stated they will allow the Leafs to run without interference (something that was stated to the basketball and scoccer teams)

this management group hasn't said one thing and done the other. they are working on making the organization better.

so again. if you don't want to embrace the changes that are happening and that have happened because we have ownership and managment on the same path and doesn't want to hoard their money and management who knows what to specifically spend money on, and wisely, because it didn't happen when you wanted to - that's fine

but again - don't put words in my mouth to justify your stance or your ideas.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Seems like too little too late.
By the time mlse FINALLY got around to doing things properly, I was too pissed off to care.

Trust me, I don't like it. I miss when I loyally followed this team. I miss looking forward to game night. I miss all my friends getting together saturday night to watch the game. None of them care anymore. And I'm simply too angry at the outrageous disasters committed by mlse the past 10 years to just "get over it" or chalk it up to "the past is the past".

This whole thing bothers me a little. I think MLSE takes us fans for granted. And seeing fans in this thread just passing off the past 10 years has me worried.

What would you have us do?

 

[Crysis]

Here's to hoping we are 0-3-0 after tonight.

 

[Swayze*]

I've lost all passion but still sort of watch.

There is not one player on this team I care about or wouldnt trade

How can we be worse than arizona? A desert team who couldnt find a buyer forever.

If they play some of the rookies Ill pay attention but this group is gross. Look at our cap spending as well lol

Burke and nonis absolutely killed us

 

[WilliamNylander]

Here's to hoping we are 0-3-0 after tonight.

Yup. An 0-5 start is looking more and more likely