Official Tank Thread of the Toronto Maple Leafs

[Ovate]

Already begun the scoreboard watching I see? A little early for me but I respect the ambition.

A win is October gets as many points as much as a win in April, and it's pretty easy to guess which teams we'll be competing against in the tank race.

 

[KGL]

A win is October gets as many points as much as a win in April, and it's pretty easy to guess which teams we'll be competing against in the tank race.

True enough. Too stressful for me to be watching the scoreboard this early though, I'll join in in a few months.

 

[-DeMo-]

Tanking originated as an explanation for what for example Penguins did to get Lemieux. They practically gave away quality players in order to be as bad as possible. Little to no regard for what they get back in terms of assets. They only wanted to be bad, so they could get the generational talent. That is tanking.

Last year Buffalo made moves that did nothing but downgrade the roster, with no long-term assets gained. That is tanking.

Toronto has been making moves that strengthen the team while giving us the option to sell for future long-term assets. That is rebuilding.

Seriously? Evander Kane(23 years old) + Bogosian(24 years old) + 2nd + 2 3rd's isn't acquiring future assets? if that's not acquiring future assets please explain what is?

also what moves has Toronto made to strengthen there team? other then the 1 year deals that they plan to pawn off anyways at the deadline for w/e they can get? signing Hunwick and Winnik? Buffalo signed Meszaros/McCormick/Moulson/Gionta and traded for Gorges in the summer prior to last year and signed them all except Meszaros to alot bigger and more term contracts then anyone we signed. they didn't sell anyone either during the summer. they also dealt away a 1st + 2nd + Armia(former 16th overall) + Lemiuex(former 2nd round) to try and strengthen there team moving forward...

 

[hfdshdh]

Seriously? Evander Kane(23 years old) + Bogosian(24 years old) + 2nd + 2 3rd's isn't acquiring future assets?

....for Tyler Myers (25 years old, former 1st round pick), Joel Armia (22 years old, former 1st round pick), Brendan Lemieux (19 years old, former 2nd round pick) and a 1st round pick.

It's a bit strong to say they 'did nothing but downgrade the roster' and 'gained no long-term assets', but at the time it was pretty obvious to everyone and their dog that the Sabres were deliberately making their team worse for no other reason than to secure the McDavid/Eichel pick.

I don't really see us as 'tanking' in that sense, but I guess it's all semantics anyway.

 

[dballislife2]

big blow to tanking waiving arcobello, he was amazing, was leading the way so far

 

[Swayze*]

Cant' believe we're only 3rd last

1 frickin win!

 

[Mikeyg]

Tough day for the tank, blue jackets up against tampa and the ducks vs the blues. Thankfully we have a tough week as well, might have to play reimer against the pens in order to give sid some confidence.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Seriously? Evander Kane(23 years old) + Bogosian(24 years old) + 2nd + 2 3rd's isn't acquiring future assets? if that's not acquiring future assets please explain what is?

also what moves has Toronto made to strengthen there team? other then the 1 year deals that they plan to pawn off anyways at the deadline for w/e they can get? signing Hunwick and Winnik? Buffalo signed Meszaros/McCormick/Moulson/Gionta and traded for Gorges in the summer prior to last year and signed them all except Meszaros to alot bigger and more term contracts then anyone we signed. they didn't sell anyone either during the summer. they also dealt away a 1st + 2nd + Armia(former 16th overall) + Lemiuex(former 2nd round) to try and strengthen there team moving forward...

....for Tyler Myers (25 years old, former 1st round pick), Joel Armia (22 years old, former 1st round pick), Brendan Lemieux (19 years old, former 2nd round pick) and a 1st round pick.

It's a bit strong to say they 'did nothing but downgrade the roster' and 'gained no long-term assets', but at the time it was pretty obvious to everyone and their dog that the Sabres were deliberately making their team worse for no other reason than to secure the McDavid/Eichel pick.

I don't really see us as 'tanking' in that sense, but I guess it's all semantics anyway.

There seems to be a misunderstanding here.

I said "they did moves that did nothing but downgrade the roster". Feels like you took that as "they did nothing but moves that downgrade the roster".

I wasn't saying that all moves were like that, but they did make moves that had no purpose or value other than to weaken the roster further.

Also comparing us to Buffalo and Arizona last year. They both went for long periods with career AHLers in their top 6. Varone was the #1C for a period for Buffalo, and Arizona had whomever it was that is a career fourth liner in the same spot. That's guys that would be #16-17 on the Leafs depth roster as of now. We got actual NHL players that can at least compete.

 

[dballislife2]

i dont know wtf we doing, we worked so hard to get into 3rd place, now we wanna improve the roster?

 

[WTFMAN99]

Tough day for the tank, blue jackets up against tampa and the ducks vs the blues. Thankfully we have a tough week as well, might have to play reimer against the pens in order to give sid some confidence.

Reimer is playing against the Pens. Bernier gets the Ranger start.

I am hoping the Ducks and Columbus pull through.

 

[Pilky01]

Cant' believe we're only 3rd last

1 frickin win!

Frustrating isn't it?

Why must it be so difficult to suck?!

 

[Ovate]

Can we stop arguing about the semantics of tanking and admire how well we've tanked so far? Whether or not it was intentional, we're in a good position.

If we continue on at a 1.12PPG, league average point percentage (a.k.a we're in the middle of the league for the rest of the season), then we'll end the season with 87 points. That would have gotten us 7th OA last year, 9th OA the year before, and that pace would have resulted in 11th OA the year before that.

If we continue on at 1PPG, then we're at 78 points, which was good for 5th OA last year, 5th the year before, and 8th the year before that.

Of course, the lottery messes everything up, but those are fairly conservative estimates of how well we'll tank. We've done great so far, and we're already in a good position for a high pick only 8 games into the season.

 

[Gabriel426]

I doubt the Ducks, Flames and BlueJackets will finish worse or close to the Leafs. Just too much talents on those teams to fail.

 

[Pi]

I doubt the Ducks, Flames and BlueJackets will finish worse or close to the Leafs. Just too much talents on those teams to fail.

Yeah, the Flames are very much like the Leafs under Wilson/Carlyle. They have talent but they will get outplayed on a nightly basis but still manage to be at least average.

We've had some bad goaltending but I still think we'll be a bottom two team (there is always a team whose season goes very very wrong some time half way through the season).

 

[Ovate]

I doubt the Ducks, Flames and BlueJackets will finish worse or close to the Leafs. Just too much talents on those teams to fail.

That's true, but Buffalo, Carolina, and Arizona could all fall the other way and finish below us.

 

[HellasLEAF]

Can we stop arguing about the semantics of tanking and admire how well we've tanked so far? Whether or not it was intentional, we're in a good position.

just this.

 

[-DeMo-]

There seems to be a misunderstanding here.

I said "they did moves that did nothing but downgrade the roster". Feels like you took that as "they did nothing but moves that downgrade the roster".

I wasn't saying that all moves were like that, but they did make moves that had no purpose or value other than to weaken the roster further.

Also comparing us to Buffalo and Arizona last year. They both went for long periods with career AHLers in their top 6. Varone was the #1C for a period for Buffalo, and Arizona had whomever it was that is a career fourth liner in the same spot. That's guys that would be #16-17 on the Leafs depth roster as of now. We got actual NHL players that can at least compete.

please again would love for you to clearify which moves you are talking about in the bolded. because I don't know which ones. is it how they traded away 2 4th line UFA's to be in Flynn/Mitchell? are you talking about the 2 goalies who were also about to become UFA's and got 2 3rd's and a backup goalie for. are you talking about dealing Stewart who was god awful and also a UFA for a 2nd? or the Kane deal? those are there only moves in season, except Adam for D'Amigo and Adam wasn't even on the Sabres roster last year. all those deals were UFA's to be who weren't being re-signed and so they dealt them for the best deal possible. exactly the same thing we will be doing at the deadline and what almost every other team whose basically eliminated from playoff contention does.

Varone played more then 16 minutes only 4 times last year, after the deadline. Ennis played in all 4 of those games, and played more minutes so Varone never played as a #1C, also during that time Girgenson was injuried so they had to move someone up and when we start selling some of these 1 year deals(assuming we can even get anything for them) we will probably bring up a scrub or 2 like Phil, to fill in like Rich Clune/Matt Frattin, espicially if anyone gets injuried.

 

[-DeMo-]

....for Tyler Myers (25 years old, former 1st round pick), Joel Armia (22 years old, former 1st round pick), Brendan Lemieux (19 years old, former 2nd round pick) and a 1st round pick.

It's a bit strong to say they 'did nothing but downgrade the roster' and 'gained no long-term assets', but at the time it was pretty obvious to everyone and their dog that the Sabres were deliberately making their team worse for no other reason than to secure the McDavid/Eichel pick.

I don't really see us as 'tanking' in that sense, but I guess it's all semantics anyway.

you forgot Stafford, but why would people think that? they dealt Myers and got Bogo pretty much a wash. the only loss off the actual roster was Stafford, who was about to become a UFA.

and here's the problem if you think they just dealt a first + Armia + Lemiuex + Myers + Stafford just to weaken there roster and not to get future assets Kane and Bogo then you need to re-assess. the exact same thing could be said about the Kessel trade. in both circumstances both deals were done with the future in mind with little regard to what it did to the current roster.

 

[Pi]

you forgot Stafford, but why would people think that? they dealt Myers and got Bogo pretty much a wash. the only loss off the actual roster was Stafford, who was about to become a UFA.

and here's the problem if you think they just dealt a first + Armia + Lemiuex + Myers + Stafford just to weaken there roster and not to get future assets Kane and Bogo then you need to re-assess. the exact same thing could be said about the Kessel trade. in both circumstances both deals were done with the future in mind with little regard to what it did to the current roster.

They traded for Kane despite the fact that he was injured. Sabres probably traded for him because of his injury so he couldn't help them last year but was healthy this season.

 

[-DeMo-]

They traded for Kane despite the fact that he was injured. Sabres probably traded for him because of his injury so he couldn't help them last year but was healthy this season.

Edit: read post wrong. the fact that Kane couldn't play last year might have been a bonus but it's not the main reason they did it.

 

[Ovate]

Edit: read post wrong. the fact that Kane couldn't play last year might have been a bonus but it's not the main reason they did it.

It's the reason they did the trade then, instead of in the offseason. The only benefit to doing it earlier was that it made them worse in the short term.

No other team was going to trade for Kane when he was injured.

 

[-DeMo-]

It's the reason they did the trade then, instead of in the offseason. The only benefit to doing it earlier was that it made them worse in the short term.

No other team was going to trade for Kane when he was injured.

they only removed 2 players and added 1 player to the roster Myers the main piece of the trade was replaced in the deal by Bogo. the reason they made the deal during the season was because, WPG also saw it as an opportunity to add a rental aswell. as Stafford wouldn't have been in the deal had they waited to the summer, and Buffalo would have just sold Stafford for pick prospect anyways had this deal not gone down when it did. so the effect on the roster would have been the exact same had they not done the deal.

Edit: also another great reason not to wait for the summer is exactly what you said in your last sentence at that point no other team would have made a play for Kane if they waited to the summer, other teams would have gotten involved.

 

[Pi]

Oilers are going to pick Auston Matthews, for sure.

How in the **** can that team suck year after year so badly? Even the Leafs under Wilson/Carlyle at least hung onto the slim playoff chances till January/February. Oilers are basically out of it by mid November IMO.

 

[FlareKnight]

Oilers are going to pick Auston Matthews, for sure.

How in the **** can that team suck year after year so badly? Even the Leafs under Wilson/Carlyle at least hung onto the slim playoff chances till January/February. Oilers are basically out of it by mid November IMO.

Matthews must be shaking in terror at this being a legitimate possibility . They should be dragged by McDavid and company to a decent spot in the standings outside the playoffs, but doesn't matter since you know they'll win the lotto even if they are highest placed non-playoff team.

 

[champs*]

Oilers are going to pick Auston Matthews, for sure.

How in the **** can that team suck year after year so badly? Even the Leafs under Wilson/Carlyle at least hung onto the slim playoff chances till January/February. Oilers are basically out of it by mid November IMO.

macdavid is going to carry that team into the playoffs!! kid is unreal