Official Tank Thread of the Toronto Maple Leafs

[FlareKnight]

Columbus falling apart in Leafs-like fashion. So hilarious in how embarrassing they are.

Luckily still going to hold on, but wow....That is a team terrified that they are going to lose.

 

[dballislife2]

cbj win, its a good night for the tank

 

[Daisy Jane]

Columbus falling apart in Leafs-like fashion. So hilarious in how embarrassing they are.

Luckily still going to hold on, but wow....That is a team terrified that they are going to lose.

be fair, Flare
if you lost 8 in a row, you'd be petrified to lose too.

 

[Ovate]

cbj win, its a good night for the tank

They're now 1-1 under Torts.

I'm not worried at all about them finishing lower than us. They have too much talent for a bottom 5 finish.

 

[mcleex]

Can't believe this is a thread right now. Way too early to be scoreboard watching lol

 

[FlareKnight]

be fair, Flare
if you lost 8 in a row, you'd be petrified to lose too.

Understandable, but still comical . I mean....on a powerplay but playing like the other team has a 5 on 3 (and they haven't even pulled their goalie yet). It was pretty darn funny.

Can't believe this is a thread right now. Way too early to be scoreboard watching lol

Why not? At the end of the year every point is going to be crucial. Those points have the same value right now and we're rebuilding so we're not going to make any big rush for a playoff spot.

 

[dballislife2]

its just like when u wanna win and make playoffs, every game, every win, and every pt counts...its the same mentality if u wanna lose and go the other way, every game and loss is crucial

hey, i dont even think any1 have to explain how important matthews can be for this franchise at its current state

 

[Pi]

its just like when u wanna win and make playoffs, every game, every win, and every pt counts...its the same mentality if u wanna lose and go the other way, every game and loss is crucial

hey, i dont even think any1 have to explain how important matthews can be for this franchise at its current state

It would be amazing. We would have the freedom to turn one of Nylander/Marner into a winger and roll two great lines because Matthews is a stud defensively as well as offensively.

Matthews and Nylander down the middle, Marner on wing. Trade Kadri for a solid top 4D (he is going to either have a great season and become a permanent part of the core or have good trade value after this season but not enough to be a #2C).

If we have patience, we have a good chance of being Cup contenders 4 years down the road.

~2 tanking years, 1-2 years for playoff experience and ready to roll from there.

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

Johansen already in Torts doghouse. Still 4-3 with under 6 to go.

Time to scoop RyJo up, Lou

 

[Semantics]

Columbus falling apart in Leafs-like fashion. So hilarious in how embarrassing they are.

Luckily still going to hold on, but wow....That is a team terrified that they are going to lose.

If you want a good laugh search on their forum for "Clarkson". Deja vu of this place last year.

Someone wants to convert him to a d-man.

 

[mallory67]

I find it amazing, given the very poor 0-8 start CBJ had ...
That we are only 2 points ahead of them.

Somebody up there wants us to have Matthews ...

 

[Mess]

Leafs are competing hard but going down fighting from lack of talent.

Solution: Acquire more talent.

Although, if the plan was to flip all these stop gap players Boyes, Arcobello, Matthias, Grabner, PA Parenteau etc for more picks at the TD then they will have to play much better than they are because you couldn't get a mid round pick for any of them right now.

 

[Cor]

Leafs are competing hard but going down fighting from lack of talent.

Solution: Acquire more talent.

Although, if the plan was to flip all these stop gap players Boyes, Arcobello, Matthias, Grabner, PA Parenteau etc for more picks at the TD then they will have to play much better than they are because you couldn't get a mid round pick for any of them right now.

Prices skyrocket at the deadline. Teams are always looking for depth.

Boyes should be able to get a 2nd-3rd, Matthias should get a 4th at least, same with PA.

Arcobello is a tough sell though.

Grabner, I'm hoping he can put his game together a bit as the season goes on. Pretty slow start for him.

 

[KGL]

Prices skyrocket at the deadline. Teams are always looking for depth.

Boyes should be able to get a 2nd-3rd, Matthias should get a 4th at least, same with PA.

Arcobello is a tough sell though.

Grabner, I'm hoping he can put his game together a bit as the season goes on. Pretty slow start for him.

Polak should also fetch a 2nd because of "grit and intangibles".

 

[FlareKnight]

If you want a good laugh search on their forum for "Clarkson". Deja vu of this place last year.

Someone wants to convert him to a d-man.

Good luck to them . Thus is the life of having Clarkson on your team.

 

[Cor]

Polak should also fetch a 2nd because of "grit and intangibles".

Torts will demand Jarko give us 2 1sts for him.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Prices skyrocket at the deadline. Teams are always looking for depth.

Boyes should be able to get a 2nd-3rd, Matthias should get a 4th at least, same with PA.

Arcobello is a tough sell though.

Grabner, I'm hoping he can put his game together a bit as the season goes on. Pretty slow start for him.

Polak is likely a 2nd-3rd (teams always overpay for this type at the TDL)
Boyes is a 3rd-4th
Matthias is a 2nd-4th (depends on his season teams love size at the deadline who can play up and down the line up as a C/W)
Reimer - Hoping a 3rd
Spaling - 3rd-5th
Arco - No idea
PAP - 4th-7th

Then you have roster players under contract in Bozak, Lupul, and Phaneuf. No idea if they are moved and what their rate of return will be yet.

 

[colchar]

Colchar I appreciate you reading through the thread and commenting although I don't need the ad hominems.

I was attacking your position, not you.

First of all, if you have an opinion that you haven't thought about then it's not even your opinion it's someone else's.

Read the definition of 'opinion' again. Opinions are worthless. Fact based arguments matter. You have yet to present a fact based argument. All you have offered are opinions.

For some reason most of you around here seem to like losing and are willing to lose on purpose.

I doubt anyone likes losing but many are willing to accept it if the team is finally on the right track to changing things.

And no matter how many times you repeat it, they are not losing on purpose. Repeating your opinion will not make it a fact.

We'll, let's say that Marner grows a foot, gains 30 lbs and takes the Leafs to a cup soon. In that case that cup is tainted because the Leafs fired a Stanley cup winning coach halfway through a season so that they could lose on purpose and secure a better draft spot in a huge draft.

Wow. Just wow.

This management has already disgraced Leafs nation.

You cannot possibly be serious. On what are you basing this silly claim?

It starts with a competent president given a mandate to try to win and rebuild simultaneously.

They have a competent president. They are trying to win while rebuilding but it takes time for a team to adjust to a new coach. You cannot expect miracles after ten games.

Had someone like Burke been given a mandate to take a decade and rebuild this organisation from the ground up while trying to ice the most competitive team he could that would have been a good start.

You have no idea what Burke's mandate was. We do know, however, what the results of his efforts were and they were not good.

Giving a zero experience president a mandate to tank and letting him lose on purpose by firing a cup winning coach and replacing him with a known dud

Horacek was not a known dud when he was placed in charge. And he was given the reigns temporarily because they knew Babcock was about to hit coaching free agency. They used a placeholder to see if they could get him - and they got him.

going into a draft without a GM

They did very well at the draft.

giving away his flawed but best player

They did not give him away.

without giving his super star coach even a chance to improve him

Kessel was a cancer who, like all cancers, had to be surgically removed.

and hiring his buddies who have performed pretty badly the last half decade is the exact opposite of what I would have done.

If you wouldn't hire someone as experienced as Lou that explains why he has been working in the NHl for decades and you have not.

Good luck watching and cheering for the Leafs lose so that they can get a early draft pick and have the new lottery system take it away and then repeat that for the next half decade.

Yeah those first overall picks have really paid off for Edmonton eh?

And since you seem to have a crystal ball would you mind sharing next week's winning lottery numbers?

...wat.

This can't be serious

Shockingly it is.

Do you agree with HOW Shanahan is doing it though? I know people here don't agree that the Leafs are tanking but how do you explain Horachek and trading Kessel away before even trying to see what Babcock could do with him. This team is not trying to get better in the short term and that's tanking.

See above. Horacek was a placeholder because they knew Babcock, and others, would be available in the off season.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

Do you agree with HOW Shanahan is doing it though? I know people here don't agree that the Leafs are tanking but how do you explain Horachek and trading Kessel away before even trying to see what Babcock could do with him. This team is not trying to get better in the short term and that's tanking.

Nothing is perfect. The one thing I do agree with was going into the draft with no GM, which I know you are against. I think Hunter did a GREAT job, and some of our later picks are already looking like steals. He is amazing at scouting potential. Just look at the knights, always a great team, always finding gems.

Kessel, although great player, cost too much. I disagreed with eating some contract, but the overall trade I am ok with. I like KK, Harrington is solid (only 21ish), and who knows what will become of that pick. Kessel can't help the Leafs right now, he was being wasted here. not to mention that IF Kessel regresses, at any point, good luck un-loading that contract.

I feel we are following the same models as LA, Chicago, etc. They all had to suck in order to be good. People bring up Edmonton, but the fact is, Edmonton, besides McJesus, won the draft in not so great years..... had it be other years, they would be insane... although never would have been able to tank like that

Guys like Bracco, 61st OVA.... what a steal! In the next 2-3 years, half our team will be sub 23, from there, I think things will get better and better. Babcock will have half his team so young, the only game they will understand is the Babcock system. He will mold them.... After a bad finish this year, with a decent draft, Babcock has NEVER dreamed of a prospects system as to the one we will own.

I personally like the direction the team is going. 15mil cap off the books next year, maybe they can move One of Boz/Lup/Phan, and that frees up over 20mil. give MR a nice contract, see what Kadri does, etc.

I think our team sucks on purpose, however, they are trying hard, and surely not playing to lose. Babcock is not having that and doing the best he can with what he has, and doing a fine job.

We needed to sign a lot of FA's regardless, as we only had 8-9 forwards signed for this year, so that was expected.

 

[666]

Read the definition of 'opinion' again. Opinions are worthless. Fact based arguments matter. You have yet to present a fact based argument. All you have offered are opinions.

Ok

I doubt anyone likes losing but many are willing to accept it if the team is finally on the right track to changing things.

You don't have to lose on purpose.

And no matter how many times you repeat it, they are not losing on purpose. Repeating your opinion will not make it a fact.

That's your opinion, zero facts. I have presented a few facts that indicte that they are losing on purpose. If you're going to talk about facts and opinions you better start using facts to back up what you say as I have.

Wow. Just wow.

Another opinion?

You cannot possibly be serious. On what are you basing this silly claim?

The previous sentence. You're strange. If you want a fact based discussion then you have to read sentences in the same paragraph because usually the facts are in the paragraph somewhere.

They have a competent president.

Another opinion, zero facts, not even opinions to back up this opinion just nothing, just a statement of opinion with nothing behind it.

You snip away my facts, explaining why Shanahan is incompetent and then deny it with your opinion.

They are trying to win while rebuilding but it takes time for a team to adjust to a new coach. You cannot expect miracles after ten games

I'm not saying that Babcock is trying to lose of purpose, that would actually be illegal. I'm saying that the management team is purposely giving Babcock a weaker team so that they can tank and the facts to prove it are Horachek, Kessel and the very simple fact that this team is horrible and much worse than last year. On purpose.

You have no idea what Burke's mandate was. We do know, however, what the results of his efforts were and they were not good.

What are you talking about? His team made the playoffs. That team and this team are worlds apart. He had assets that we'll never know what his plan was for but this team is giving assets away to tank.

Horacek was not a known dud when he was placed in charge. And he was given the reigns temporarily because they knew Babcock was about to hit coaching free agency. They used a placeholder to see if they could get him - and they got him.

Opinions again, dude practice what you preach or shut up about it. Horachek was a known dud. If they wanted Babcock they could have fired Carlyle in the off season after trying to win as much as possible, instead they purposely tried to lose by hiring a horrible coach. You definitely aren't understanding what I'm saying. If you can't see the reasoning there you can't think.

They did very well at the draft.

Another opinion. It will take years to know if they did well but some of us think they made a massive error picking Marner and if you followed the draft day thread then you would know that the Leafs incompetence cost them the player that they wanted somewhere late in the first round I don't remember the details but going into the draft without a GM was incompetent. That's not an opinion. It's a fact.

They did not give him away.

At best, an opinion in reality a delusional evaluation.

Kessel was a cancer who, like all cancers, had to be surgically removed.

Another opinion. Oh brother.

If you wouldn't hire someone as experienced as Lou that explains why he has been working in the NHl for decades and you have not.

Wow! Why not just make Cliff Fetcher GM then?

Yeah those first overall picks have really paid off for Edmonton eh?

And since you seem to have a crystal ball would you mind sharing next week's winning lottery numbers?

Then why are the Leafs tanking?

See above. Horacek was a placeholder because they knew Babcock, and others, would be available in the off season.

They could have fired Carlyle in the off season after trying to make a futile playoff push. They knew what they were doing. They tanked. They lost on purpose.

 

[666]

Nothing is perfect..

The one thing I do agree with was going into the draft with no GM, which I know you are against. I think Hunter did a GREAT job, and some of our later picks are already looking like steals. He is amazing at scouting potential. Just look at the knights, always a great team, always finding gems

.

There's a difference between a scout and a GM, a huge one. Finding great OHL talent is a lot different than finding great NHL talent. We all have our opinion of the draft but some of us and I'm not the only one think Marner was a bad choice.

Kessel, although great player, cost too much. I disagreed with eating some contract, but the overall trade I am ok with. I like KK, Harrington is solid (only 21ish), and who knows what will become of that pick. Kessel can't help the Leafs right now, he was being wasted here. not to mention that IF Kessel regresses, at any point, good luck un-loading that contract.

If Babcock is so great then he should have been given a shot at coaching Kessel.

I feel we are following the same models as LA, Chicago, etc. They all had to suck in order to be good. People bring up Edmonton, but the fact is, Edmonton, besides McJesus, won the draft in not so great years..... had it be other years, they would be insane... although never would have been able to tank like that

My problem is sucking on purpose which no one seems to think the Leafs are doing. Once again. Babcock and the players aren't tanking but the management clearly is.

I personally like the direction the team is going. 15mil cap off the books next year, maybe they can move One of Boz/Lup/Phan, and that frees up over 20mil. give MR a nice contract, see what Kadri does, etc.

Cap has no value if you don't have players to give it to and the last thing the Leafs need is a Stamkos. Spend to the cap, try to compete, entertain the fans and try to make the playoffs every season. Don't lose on purpose.

I think our team sucks on purpose, however, they are trying hard, and surely not playing to lose. Babcock is not having that and doing the best he can with what he has, and doing a fine job.

I agree but you might have meant to say "I don't think our team sucks on purpose:.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Yes, that's right, they traded Kessel because they wanted to start building this team from scratch. Keeping Kessel and having Babs work with him gets us nowhere. We'd be battling for a wild card spot, at best. We'd be just spinning our wheels, again, for years. They had to start over. Management is not trying to tank, they are building this team from the ground up. That takes time.

 

[yubbers]

That I meant with these -> "". Our team actually lacks scoring and Kessel would do that, but we don't actually need him. It's better this way and it was right decision to trade Kessel. I thought I wouldn't have to state the obvious. Kessel in this system even without buying in might get some points for us, but this culture change is more important than that. If he wouldn't have bought in and his game would have plummeted real bad we couldn't have traded him at all.

It's pointless for anyone to complain about that trade. We made the right and only decision back then. It wasn't tank move it was rational move.

Forget who the player is.....

It was not the right move. It was horrendous asset management. Our Rookie GM got taken to school which is why they got a full time nanny for him. Nothing about that trade was right.

 

[666]

Yes, that's right, they traded Kessel because they wanted to start building this team from scratch. Keeping Kessel and having Babs work with him gets us nowhere. We'd be battling for a wild card spot, at best. We'd be just spinning our wheels, again, for years. They had to start over. Management is not trying to tank, they are building this team from the ground up. That takes time.

I understand that argument and there's nothing wrong with trading Kessel if you can get good value for him but that trade was a disaster. Also by trading Kessel before trading his line mates in particular JVR and Bosak it horribly diminishes their trade value. We're not going to get anything for them when they end up performing like the 3rd liners that they are that was masked by playing with Kessel.

If this team is starting over then why does it still have Phanuef, Lupul, Bosak, etc etc?

They traded away one player of significance and that is starting over? Looks like tanking to me.

 

[666]

Forget who the player is.....

It was not the right move. It was horrendous asset management. Our Rookie GM got taken to school which is why they got a full time nanny for him. Nothing about that trade was right.

Someone who understands. Why is it that almost everyone around here is convinced that every single move this management team has made is perfect. It's crazy. It's mass hypnosis or something.