Seravalli: Official JT Miller Trade Thread - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[arttk]

I sometimes wonder where these narratives come from. "Re-unite" Landy/MacK/Rants...? They've not been separated in the first place...they're playing every game together as we speak right now. That was the top line last night against Anaheim, for instance. They're the top line again tonight against the Kings. The second line currently features a guy who is (somehow ) fifth in the league in points and fourth in PPG (Kadri), and Burakovsky is on his wing with 32 points in 35 games. Nuke, when healthy, has been awfully productive as well this year.

Of course the Avs could use Miller. Everyone could. But you're making out that the Avs are badly missing Saad to the point they had to supposedly break up the top line to spread scoring out. The club has four forwards all well above PPG (Landy/Mack/Kadri/Rants), two defensemen above PPG (Makar/Toews, although Toews won't keep it up obviously), and some strong depth scoring behind it all. The Avs comfortably lead the league averaging 4.19 goals per game. That might drop off as the season goes along (I expect it will), but scoring has been the Avs' biggest strength this year.

So yeah...I fully expect the Avs will be linked to all the big name forwards available, and everyone could always use more scoring depth (which is why I think there's a decent chance this year that Sakic actually adds someone), but the Avs, along with Florida and Tampa, are amongst the least-desperate teams in the league for high-end forward talent right now.

The more pressing needs would be a strong defensive centre, a second pairing defenseman (since Byram is likely done for the year), and either a goalie upgrade or goalie depth.

It's also why I remain pretty comfortable in thinking that Sakic -- based on his cautious history, lack of desperation for scoring talent, Newhook's active productivity in the lineup, and the Avs' desperate need for ELC's and guys under long term cost-control -- won't be moving Newhook, even though that likely takes the Avs out of the Miller sweepstakes.


Edit: I just saw this. I think you're really off here. Byram's long-term future is very much uncertain and in jeopardy right now. Have you seen the news on him...? With EJ having fallen off hard, the Avs' second pairing on a nightly basis right now is Jack Johnson - Sam Girard, with EJ and Ryan Murray cycling into that spot beside Girard. The Avs' 4/5/6 guys are JJ/EJ/Murray, and they pretty much all average bottom pairing minutes. Sometimes MacDermid has slotted in on defense which is uh, less than ideal. The Avs have some defense prospects coming along, but with Byram's serious injury depth on defense is actually a problem right now. They certainly can't move Girard at this moment for a winger.

So are you guys going to bank on Kadri not getting suspended this coming playoffs? I imagine your secondary scoring will be shot when he gets suspended again this coming playoffs.

 

[bernmeister]

NYR 1st 2022 + Lundkvist
For
JT Miller @50%

NO

Change Lundqvist to Schneider or there is no discussion to be had. Especially retaining half salary

NO x 2

rangers shuold have no interest in him. they're pretenders this year and he isn't changing that. they need a longer term fix at center.

if they wanna talk pettersson okay, if not hang up on rutherford if you're drury

Agree w/this except Rangers are not pretenders this yr. They are legit cup contenders.
Howev, even a Draisatil is not a guarantee to buy a cup, and JT is no LeoDrai,

Also, and more important, I am certain that while Strome is productive, including as to scoring which is coveted league wide, our overall best interests are served by dealing him for futures now, and giving his mins first to Barron -- who I understand has outstanding faceoff win percentage -- and Chytil, then also to Krav in another 5 or so wks when he gets here.

The value of increased production internally this way is better than self renting Strome.

Adding a Miller or Hertl is problematic bc next season cap does NOT permit ANYTHING.
In fact, we may have to move Lindgren to = scratch downpayment for Kakko, LaF, etc

The reason is because getting a 1st line player for 2.625M vs 5.25M is a huge difference. If we are talking realistic scenarios, its very likely Miller is traded with no retention. Our owner has a history of being cheap in the sense he is against spending money thats not on the NHL roster. He'll do it if there's no other possibility, but he wont be happy about it. Retention/buyouts is basically the worst thing you can ask of him in his books regardless the reason. The only thing that comes close to that is burying salary in the AHL. As you mentioned supply and demand. Miller is going to command a haul regardless. It would make no sense to retain on Miller if theres no premium paid vs taking a roster player like Compher/Demelo/Lindgren back instead.

IMO you should try to extend Miller and only deal him if you have no choice.
Especially if retention is needed, a simple solution does not always present itself.
I don't see NY-VAN as matching up on the currency available, but even for the moment if that were the case, just for discussion, NY would need to send Lindgren at full pop 3 x 3 and Miller at half just to have Miller in under cap next year. Howev, doing that creates a separate prob if Trouba does not waive and go early, b'c Lindgren's 3 would have gone to down payments on Kakko, LaF and with that not available b'c deployed to Miller leaves ?, what salary can be moved for LaF, Kakko. Answer: there is none.

 

[jackjohnson]

NYR 1st 2022 + Lundkvist

For

JT Miller @50%

that 50% retention is worth at least a 1st or 2nd by itself. We are also talking about JT Miller here not blake coleman in his last year.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Ya but that came from Adrian dater and not Sakic himself.

So? Nothing ever really comes from a GM, especially not something like this. All we have is info from insiders.

 

[jackjohnson]

Delusional

The Rangers don't NEED JT Miller. You NEED draft picks and prospects to retool. Understand the difference

Canucks can get a 1st from any team plus a much better prospect than Lunkvist, especially for a $2.6 million dollar Miller with 1.5 years left. Understand the difference.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

So are you guys going to bank on Kadri not getting suspended this coming playoffs? I imagine your secondary scoring will be shot when he gets suspended again this coming playoffs.

Only gets suspended every second year with the Avs.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

So? Nothing ever really comes from a GM, especially not something like this. All we have is info from insiders.

And Adrian dater is not an insider.

 

[jackjohnson]

I keep seeing "if we retain 50%, the return will be higher" type comments. Isn't significant retention pretty much a given right now in this flat cap environment? How many top teams can even take him on without significant retention?

Top 10 teams the NHL right now (Points %):

Carolina: Need retention
Colorado: Need retention
Florida: Doesn't need retention, but also doesn't really need JT Miller given their stacked forward line-up.
TB: Need retention
NYR: Do NOT need retention (for this year), but likely do because of next year.
TOR: Need retention
MIN: Do NOT need retention
PIT: Need retention?
WSH: Need retention?
STL: Need retention?

Now, instead of retention there are other ways to get cap space, but of the viable candidate, it looks like only the MIN and NYR's can accept Miller without retention, and NYR are likely going to want retention for next year.

If pretty much every team is going to want retention, then how does that add to the trade value?

Find me a 1st liner that is available and make $5.25 million like a JT miller? Now find me a top line center that makes $2.7 million for 1.5 years that is also available and not washed up and a top 20 scorer in NHL in terms of points? Sorry but you are making excuses because its a flat cap world, Canucks need to retain and have it cost nothing in teems of assets because the top contenders dont have room. Well If Canucks retain, the other team needs to give more in value because Miller is worth a lot more if Canucks are still paying half his salary. On top of that, you have these low ball offers of a late 1st and a B prospect, that makes me think Canucka are just better off trading Miller next year if they are getting these low ball offers that also costs Canucks money because they have to retain more salary on him while getting trade value of a player in his last year of contract. Unless JR gets a real good offer, I dont see him trading JT for that cheap.

 

[jackjohnson]

Likely he gets moved, along with Boeser. These guys unfortunately are not going to fit the timeline the team will need to retool.

Thank Benning for mishandling cap space and trading away/losing key core players.

If miller gets traded, I doubt Boeser is moved. We cant be gutting our team now just because Boeser is 25 years old, because he is not old at all. JT can be traded due to him probably wanting to go somewhere else and he would be expensive to sign. Boeser will be cheaper to sign and extend and he is still young. Canucka dont have plethora of young prospects that can replace both Boeser and Miller.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

It's not ideal the Jets would trade for him. Right now it makes no sense considering it looks we're missing the playoffs.

I love JT Miller as a player, but not a good idea for him to be traded to the Jets right now. Also, Vancouver should keep him because he fits like a glove there.

But if he does get traded I think the best fit for him is either the Rangers, Avs or Capitals. But his price is pretty much high at this time.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

NO


NO x 2


Agree w/this except Rangers are not pretenders this yr. They are legit cup contenders.
Howev, even a Draisatil is not a guarantee to buy a cup, and JT is no LeoDrai,

Also, and more important, I am certain that while Strome is productive, including as to scoring which is coveted league wide, our overall best interests are served by dealing him for futures now, and giving his mins first to Barron -- who I understand has outstanding faceoff win percentage -- and Chytil, then also to Krav in another 5 or so wks when he gets here.

The value of increased production internally this way is better than self renting Strome.

Adding a Miller or Hertl is problematic bc next season cap does NOT permit ANYTHING.
In fact, we may have to move Lindgren to = scratch downpayment for Kakko, LaF, etc




IMO you should try to extend Miller and only deal him if you have no choice.
Especially if retention is needed, a simple solution does not always present itself.
I don't see NY-VAN as matching up on the currency available, but even for the moment if that were the case, just for discussion, NY would need to send Lindgren at full pop 3 x 3 and Miller at half just to have Miller in under cap next year. Howev, doing that creates a separate prob if Trouba does not waive and go early, b'c Lindgren's 3 would have gone to down payments on Kakko, LaF and with that not available b'c deployed to Miller leaves ?, what salary can be moved for LaF, Kakko. Answer: there is none.

No to Lundvist and a 1st??? For Miller RETAINED? Out to lunch man lmao. Genuinely curious, what do you think is a fair proposal? Humour me

 

[Skirbs1011]

No to Lundvist and a 1st??? For Miller RETAINED? Out to lunch man lmao. Genuinely curious, what do you think is a fair proposal? Humour me

Personally the lowest I would accept is Lundkvist, Kravtsov and 2022 1st with no retention, if they want retention convo starts with Schnieder being involved.

 

[Seventy7]

Just a few thoughts on Miller.

JT has been this teams leader since he was acquired. I would just as soon sign him to stay in Vancouver, however this team needs a retool…. Petey, Hughes, and Demko are untouchable imho. By the time these guys are ready to win, Miller will likely be on the downside of his prime. From an asset management standpoint, and given the realistic timeline to compete for a cup, now is the time to make this deal for Vancouver.

His value? Well there’s a whole lot of NHL22 proposals in this thread, the reality is J.T. will likely be the top deadline asset available. Bidding war will dictate his ultimate value…. But my gut says he goes to his hometown… Pittsburgh.

 

[gianni]

Funny how some teams have core players in the middle of their prime, but fans don't want to give up a prospect that's years away from being an impact player. Do they not understand that by the time the prospect is able to contribute, their current core players may be out of their prime by then? Haha.

Anyway, real contenders like Tampa Bay & Vegas tend to go all-in, so I'd be curious if the Canucks get a serious offer from either team.

 

[Peter Griffin]

But my gut says he goes to his hometown… Pittsburgh.

Hopefully not, Pittsburgh’s trade chips aren’t desirable at all.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Funny how some teams have core players in the middle of their prime, but fans don't want to give up a prospect that's years away from being an impact player. Do they not understand that by the time the prospect is able to contribute, their current core players may be out of their prime by then? Haha.

Anyway, real contenders like Tampa Bay & Vegas tend to go all-in, so I'd be curious if the Canucks get a serious offer from either team.

Except many of the "asks" from Van fans are not "prospects that are years away". I've seen Schneider, Jarvis, Necas, Newhook, Perfetti, etc.. Those are guys already in the NHL (Schneider and Perfetti less so).

While I agree with your general premise, the "asks" aren't guys "years away".

 

[LuLover96]

No to Lundvist and a 1st??? For Miller RETAINED? Out to lunch man lmao. Genuinely curious, what do you think is a fair proposal? Humour me

I can’t 100% remember if it was him, but I think he’s the guy who said Chytil, Kravtsov and a second for JT retained. His takes are a meme on these boards, even on the Rangers subforum.

 

[Peter Griffin]

I can’t 100% remember if it was him, but I think he’s the guy who said Chytil, Kravtsov and a second for JT retained. His takes are a meme on these boards, even on the Rangers subforum.

It was Strome, Georgiev, Lindgren, Jones and 22 1st for Miller @ 50% and Halak with a bizarre side trade of Kravtsov for Podkolzin.

 

[Canucks LB]

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I wonder who the 1st best is?

 

[elitepete]

I wonder who the 1st best is?

Klingberg?

 

[LuLover96]

It was Strome, Georgiev, Lindgren, Jones and 22 1st for Miller @ 50% and Halak with a bizarre side trade of Kravtsov for Podkolzin.

Right yes, that’s it. He had a long explanation too detailing why his reads were correct and how it was the best offer we had ever seen.

 

[BCNate]

I wonder who the 1st best is?

Hertl would be my guess.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

I wonder who the 1st best is?

Klingberg?

Chychrun. Good young D with term at a good number.

 

[Peter Griffin]

Right yes, that’s it. He had a long explanation too detailing why his reads were correct and how it was the best offer we had ever seen.

Depending on if Strome could be flipped elsewhere and perhaps Lindgren too, it’s actually not the worst. The Podkolzin/Kravtsov swap made zero sense though.