Seravalli: Official JT Miller Trade Thread - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[bernmeister]

The only thing that's delusional is thinking that the Canucks couldn't get a Braden Schneider type of prospect in a package for Miller.

supply + demand
you may get that type from somewhere, but not the actual schneid from NYR, as he is heir apparent to replace Trouba once T can be moved.

 

[bernmeister]

Nils Lundkvist and a 1st

no

 

[bernmeister]

That's the point though, if you're trying to win the Stanley Cup, you have to be willing to be bold when the moment calls for it.

I'm not talking about a mediocre team like Dallas going 'all in' and trading a bunch of futures. But if you're a top 5 in the league, at some point it's time to take the risk.

that's a false narrative to the extent it may one day apply and make sense but certainly does not now for NY.
Our window is only just beginning to opem
we are better off with the freshness of youth and cheap depth that comes with.

Adding Miller or Hertl or other vet would not guarantee a cup. A guy like LeoDrai would help up the chances, but its still not certain, which is foolish given definite cost.
Bottom line is in hard cap era, you can no longer buy a cup.

And again, adding guys we can't keep next year is just stupid

shop elsewhere

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

that's a false narrative to the extent it may one day apply and make sense but certainly does not now for NY.
Our window is only just beginning to opem
we are better off with the freshness of youth and cheap depth that comes with.

Adding Miller or Hertl or other vet would not guarantee a cup. A guy like LeoDrai would help up the chances, but its still not certain, which is foolish given definite cost.
Bottom line is in hard cap era, you can no longer buy a cup.

And again, adding guys we can't keep next year is just stupid

shop elsewhere

But you would keep Miller next year.

 

[egelband]

Would be happy to see him in Columbus, not sure if he wants to come though

Does he have any kind of a no-trade clause?

 

[egelband]

The only thing that's delusional is thinking that the Canucks couldn't get a Braden Schneider type of prospect in a package for Miller.

No one is saying they can’t get a prospect like Schneider. Just saying it won’t be actually Schneider. Rangers are very high on him. If the Canucks are dead-set on Schneider from the Rangers I think it’s just not a fit. It’s fine.

 

[Overrateprospects]

But you would keep Miller next year.

Wouldn’t that guarantee Rangers lose Strome as well? Rangers would need to get back value on Strome and I doubt many teams offer a first for him nor do I see Rangers messing with chemistry just for kicks. Canucks are better off waiting till the draft to move him when more teams have an idea what the cap will be and understand their roster needs. Team like Devils,Isles could have interest.

 

[robes1]

I still think regardless of his value being really high at the moment, that they should keep him, and try to eventually resign him. This guy has shown to be a late bloomer, so I don't think he's gonna drop off any time soon. He does so many things really well on the ice, and is the type of player the Canucks need in their locker room.

 

[bernmeister]

that 50% retention is worth at least a 1st or 2nd by itself. We are also talking about JT Miller here not blake coleman in his last year.

it is obv up to the clubs, but in a vacuum might parallel the Marleau buyout standard. So retaining 1 yr at 6m = 1st per yr retained. 1m less, 5m per and so on etc.
So what is that for 2 yrs of miller at max from 5+ to 2+?
do the math

No to Lundvist and a 1st??? For Miller RETAINED? Out to lunch man lmao. Genuinely curious, what do you think is a fair proposal? Humour me

It is not fair to insist a team capitulate to your demands for your preferred currency.
The suitor puts for what it wants, or in some cases like this, what it can, and if there is room for, there may be negotiation. Cap does not allow Rangers to make any other offer other than what I've explained. Whether that is "fair" in view of other offers is based on the market and whatever competitive bids there are, and that is not only what teams have choice assets you like, but whether they can afford to add miller, or hertl or any other target, given hard cap restraints.

I am on record,
VAN should keep.
Unconditionally NY should not overpay if it stupidly goes there, AND
even if you want to consider retaining on JT and we send you Lindgren to have cap balance, our situation next year is so extreme it still does not make sense.
Lindgren is likely necessary dealt to free up his 3 x 3 to have down scratch for LaF, Kakko. If we redeploy Lindy now we don't have that card to play and we have no other salary that can be moved b'c all our top guys have trade protection.

Personally the lowest I would accept is Lundkvist, Kravtsov and 2022 1st with no retention, if they want retention convo starts with Schnieder being involved.

this is outrageously too much and NY says no, shop elsewhere, good luck.

I can’t 100% remember if it was him, but I think he’s the guy who said Chytil, Kravtsov and a second for JT retained. His takes are a meme on these boards, even on the Rangers subforum.

That is not what I said, and such error illustrates how clueless some are.

It was Strome, Georgiev, Lindgren, Jones and 22 1st for Miller @ 50% and Halak with a bizarre side trade of Kravtsov for Podkolzin.

Ah!
someone was paying attention.
Correct. It is not clear who ultimately will be better, Krav or Pod.
Like I said, it is a conv for NY and there is a chance Krav can be developed into a pivot while Pod is a def no on that count. So it was not that bizzarre.

Right yes, that’s it. He had a long explanation too detailing why his reads were correct and how it was the best offer we had ever seen.

Dishonest.
I said it was the best Rangers could offer under the severe cap circumstances.
I'll await your correcting retraction,

Depending on if Strome could be flipped elsewhere and perhaps Lindgren too, it’s actually not the worst. The Podkolzin/Kravtsov swap made zero sense though.

I am not aware of current offers for JTM in a developing market. It is not clear yet no only who wants to, but who CAN go all in, esp given cap.
So I think it does help VAN and does give good young pieces useful to 'nucks.
Also given cap NY would not keep Halak post playoffs, so he could back up geo next yr. if you make Hal the best offer.

As to Pod/Krav it is discussed above.

Rangers certainly have the means and motivation to trade for JT, but i dont think they are willing to lose Strome in the offseason to actually pull the trigger

Strome is gone, NY cannot afford him. Everybody just friggin learn that and capitulate and admit to that now,
The only ? is, are they gonna be smart and get something for him? Or are they gonna be stupid and let him walk?

PAY ATTENTION, ONE LAST TIME
All of Strome, Geo, Nemeth, Hajek + recover of 1.5 Hank buyout cap hit ballpark = what is needed to pay for Fox + Zib beg, next yr.
ALL OF IT. We may have to not offer a contract to a guy like McKegg to fully cover it.
We have no room to offer Strome anything, let alone what he wants/would get on the open market.
Stop with any narrative he can be kept.

Also those dismissing giving Strome mins to Chytil + Barron now and then also Kravtsov in a month +, are wrong, imo.
The faster we get down to a real core, without excess vets taking minutes away from that core, the better NY is as faster it gets to the roster meshing better.

Omg you're going to summon the bernmeister with that one.

You rang....

rangers do if they want to go far in the okay playoffs lmao. Strome at 2 will get dominated

No, Rangers should deal Strome anyway b'c he is a productive component delivering offense, but this is not an elite player. He is worth a late 1st, more if retained, or equiv of a 2nd +.
So far other than Calgary + Colorado, in short sample sizes early on, no one has dominated us.

We do not need to add. We are good enuf as is, and need to preserve this team for the future to max its windows, not make stupid win now desperation trades that usually fail/and are too expensive.

Barron is bigger, stronger and better at faceoffs. Chytil is not a shrimp and can do 2c just fine, But if we are stupid and keep Strome, I expect they will figure out how to minimize mismatches you suggest to the extent they may be true, and I am not conceding your inference that that would happen/happen in most matchups.

 

[likash]

Canucks have a terrible cap structure with multiple poison pill contracts on the books, and Miller extremely unlikely to extend with the Canucks past next year.

Team is capped out, hasn't drafted in the 1st round in back to back years, is missing this year's second, and have a bottom 5 prospect pool. At best they are a playoff bubble team with this group and it's time to sell high on their assets for once.

You could just sum all of these up in one word: Jimbo.

 

[bernmeister]

But you would keep Miller next year.

keeping Miller next year is not worth it if I gave you Lindgren as part of the equation and had no $$ to extend LaF + Kakko etc.

And it is worse if I don't give you Lindgren and there is no retention.

It isn't worth it for NY. I'm happy to contribute to the discussion reviewing multiple scenarios, but yield to the reality of math.

bern is not wrong here

 

[egelband]

Wouldn’t that guarantee Rangers lose Strome as well? Rangers would need to get back value on Strome and I doubt many teams offer a first for him nor do I see Rangers messing with chemistry just for kicks. Canucks are better off waiting till the draft to move him when more teams have an idea what the cap will be and understand their roster needs. Team like Devils,Isles could have interest.

I think that even if the Rangers aren’t going to re-sign Strome, they’re still planning to hold him for this season as a “self-rental”. They no longer are - as far as can tell - stockpiling assets. If anything they’ll be net futures-out for the foreseeable.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

There are numerous Canucks fans saying that a prospect like that isn't a requirement, keep spewing nonsense though.

Ok, that doesn't make what I said not true.


There are plenty of Canucks fans in this thread insisting a prospect of that caliber will be part of the deal.

Just because you aren't doesn't mean other aren't.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Nils Lundkvist and a 1st

Schneider+1st for Miller at minimum

 

[Canadian Canuck]

no

Lmao

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Have they played NHL games? Yes.

Are they in their prime this year? No.
Will they be in their prime next year? Likely No.

Compare JT Miller's stats to those you listed. There's a difference from just starting an NHL career, and being in your prime.

1) You didn't initially say "being in their prime". You said "years away from being an impact player". Some of the players I listed (Necas, Jarvis, Newhook for example) are not years away IMO. Necas has 60 points in his last 82 games and over last season and this and has scored at the same rate as Miller 5v5 over that stretch. I suspect Jarvis and Newhook will be impact players soon, maybe as soon as next year. Prime? no, but I never said they'd be in their prime. Impact players? probably.

2) Of course Miller is a better player now, that's not a debate. It's also not a debate that Miller will be a UFA in 1.5 years and will be 30 when he starts his next contract, where-as these players will be under a teams' control for many years to come and will be entering their prime. That has significant value.

There aren't a lot of cases where a prime young player/prospect gets moved for a guy that is a UFA in a year/1.5 years for a good reason. It usually comes back to bite the team that traded such a player. I'll never say never as it could happen, but if a team decides to go that route with Miller, that's fine. I just hope it's not my team.

 

[brock hughes007]

Sorry I want to keep Miller and I hope he stays,,he has been the most constent Canuck since he has got here..We need to trade off some of Bennings garbage ,and use that money to resign him..Pearson ,Chaisson, Dickenson Hamonic ect..there is movable peices that can be used to sign him,those guys are replaced easier ,then it would be to find another JT...

 

[Overrateprospects]

I think that even if the Rangers aren’t going to re-sign Strome, they’re still planning to hold him for this season as a “self-rental”. They no longer are - as far as can tell - stockpiling assets. If anything they’ll be net futures-out for the foreseeable.

I get self rental but the reports of middle 9 forward and the fact they traded Buch tells me he is content on looking for the right fit next to Bread and Butter that will fill Blackwell/Fast role. I don’t see Strome walking as a UFA. I think he enjoys what is building and I’m sure Drury will give him no trade/NMC protections to lower the cap hit.


JT Miller is a great player but overpaying for him so he can play 2nd line doesn’t make sense. I personally don’t see Canucks trading him at the deadline because they are still in the hunt. Makes more sense to trade him at the draft and land a prospect you want instead of settling for some contenders offer. It allows the acquiring team to land him and extend while no contender has the cap space right now

 

[Richard88]

Baron, Olausson, 2023 1st for Miller 50% is reasonable on both sides.

Barron and Olausson were both rated much higher than their draft positions by Sakic and Avs scouts (Sakic and head scout Klippenstein both said as much without even being prompted) so it seems extremely unlikely that Sakic would move both in the same deal.

I'd say the return will be atleast a 1st, top prospect and a young roster player

2023 1st + Barron/Helleson + Compher/Jost ticks all the boxes.

Agreed. Maybe Murray rebounds and becomes a PK contributor. We could also maybe use a vet on the bottom six.

Adding Miller would lessen the need for a bottom 6 vet, as Nichuskin would be bumped back to the 3rd line. Miller also plays PK so the need for PK help in the bottom 6 would be lessened as well.

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

keeping Miller next year is not worth it if I gave you Lindgren as part of the equation and had no $$ to extend LaF + Kakko etc.

And it is worse if I don't give you Lindgren and there is no retention.

It isn't worth it for NY. I'm happy to contribute to the discussion reviewing multiple scenarios, but yield to the reality of math.

bern is not wrong here

Fair enough in terms of your knowledge of your team, but referring to the self in the third person is an oooooffff.

 

[egelband]

I get self rental but the reports of middle 9 forward and the fact they traded Buch tells me he is content on looking for the right fit next to Bread and Butter that will fill Blackwell/Fast role. I don’t see Strome walking as a UFA. I think he enjoys what is building and I’m sure Drury will give him no trade/NMC protections to lower the cap hit.


JT Miller is a great player but overpaying for him so he can play 2nd line doesn’t make sense. I personally don’t see Canucks trading him at the deadline because they are still in the hunt. Makes more sense to trade him at the draft and land a prospect you want instead of settling for some contenders offer. It allows the acquiring team to land him and extend while no contender has the cap space right now

I agree it’s most likely Strome re-signs at a team-friendly rate. But I’m just saying that even if that doesn’t happen I don’t see them trading him, as was suggested.

 

[Bankerguy]

Trading Miller means you're giving up on the season.
He's a top line player, ppg, hits, good in his own zone and can win faceoffs. The only way i'd move him to NYR would be overpayment
Schneider + kakko/lafren for JT Miller and depth add-ins like Pearson if they need bodies.
People who advocate trading JT need to understand that doing so is an organizational move, bye bye Horvat, Boeser... you're essentially restarting the rebuild. Sell them all or none. I dont care which avenue you choose..but dont go half way.. commit to a direction

 

[Overrateprospects]

I agree it’s most likely Strome re-signs at a team-friendly rate. But I’m just saying that even if that doesn’t happen I don’t see them trading him, as was suggested.

Agreed which is why trading for JT makes no sense

 

[Overrateprospects]

Trading Miller means you're giving up on the season.
He's a top line player, ppg, hits, good in his own zone and can win faceoffs. The only way i'd move him to NYR would be overpayment
Schneider + kakko/lafren for JT Miller and depth add-ins like Pearson if they need bodies.
People who advocate trading JT need to understand that doing so is an organizational move, bye bye Horvat, Boeser... you're essentially restarting the rebuild. Sell them all or none. I dont care which avenue you choose..but dont go half way.. commit to a direction

Exactly rebuild outside of Pete,Hughes and Demko. I’m still confused why they hired Bruce

 

[egelband]

Agreed which is why trading for JT makes no sense

Trading for JT @50% isn’t a crazy idea though. Assuming the price is right - which, I know it won’t be. Just saying.