Speculation: Official JT Miller Trade Thread II - NEW Update (1/25/22) - Rangers Interest "Next Level"

[Guyute]

Schneider is the piece Van wants because he’s a RHD with size, but talk about overrating your own prospect.

It honestly reminds me of Bryan Allen being part of the Luongo trade back in the day… where’s the Bertuzzi in this deal?

Schneider is a great defender prospect but tracks as what - like 20 point Dman at most, not known for being an exceptional skater, and he’s 6’2 not 6’5… sounds like a slightly more projectable Jett Woo.

JT Miller is an impact player, Schneider needs to be part of the deal. Part. Of the deal.

or else no deal.

Then the Rangers are perfectly happy with no deal. There’s zero chance they will trade Schneider given his emergence in the past few weeks for JT Miller.

 

[Alluckks]

Schneider is the piece Van wants because he’s a RHD with size, but talk about overrating your own prospect.

It honestly reminds me of Bryan Allen being part of the Luongo trade back in the day… where’s the Bertuzzi in this deal?

Schneider is a great defender prospect but tracks as what - like 20 point Dman at most, not known for being an exceptional skater, and he’s 6’2 not 6’5… sounds like a slightly more projectable Jett Woo.

JT Miller is an impact player, Schneider needs to be part of the deal. Part. Of the deal.

or else no deal.

If that is your impression then there simply won't be a deal with the Rangers. Making a demand to me makes no difference. But everything reported by Rangers beat and all impressions for 9 months now makes it a pretty sure bet that Schneider won't be moved in a deal like this, if at all.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

I don’t know why everyone loves this guy

 

[BPD]

I like how you conveniently ignored that Vegas was trading for an injured disgruntled Eichel before his surgery. There is also no guarantee that even when he is fully recovering from his surgery, his performance would be the same as before. No one is certain of what will happen if gets injured again. Isn't that kind of a big deal and something that would dramatically affect his value? This is not to mention his $10M cap hit and very few teams have the cap room to take him on.

Yes, most people are aware that Eichel is a better player and should get a better return than Miller. However to have a balanced discussion, at least mention his injuries.. They are kind of a big deal.

I like how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post where I named four other players of all-star caliber traded for the same damn package, specifically for the purpose of making your point while ignoring mine.

But hey, I'm just the guy sitting here pointing out the obvious trend when it comes to these sorts of trades in the NHL, not the guy thinking he's got the single most cap flexible contender in the NHL by the nuts.

 

[Canadian Canuck]

Schneider is the piece Van wants because he’s a RHD with size, but talk about overrating your own prospect.

It honestly reminds me of Bryan Allen being part of the Luongo trade back in the day… where’s the Bertuzzi in this deal?

Schneider is a great defender prospect but tracks as what - like 20 point Dman at most, not known for being an exceptional skater, and he’s 6’2 not 6’5… sounds like a slightly more projectable Jett Woo.

JT Miller is an impact player, Schneider needs to be part of the deal. Part. Of the deal.

or else no deal.

This

 

[bigdog16]

Schneider is the piece Van wants because he’s a RHD with size, but talk about overrating your own prospect.

It honestly reminds me of Bryan Allen being part of the Luongo trade back in the day… where’s the Bertuzzi in this deal?

Schneider is a great defender prospect but tracks as what - like 20 point Dman at most, not known for being an exceptional skater, and he’s 6’2 not 6’5… sounds like a slightly more projectable Jett Woo.

JT Miller is an impact player, Schneider needs to be part of the deal. Part. Of the deal.

or else no deal.

“Your prospect really is not that good but he NEEDS to be part of the deal to make it work, he sucks though and your fanbass overrates him”

lol classic

 

[seanlinden]

That's probably close to what you guys are actually offering...........but imo Schneider has to be on the table for this to work from the Canucks perspective.

I think Rangers fans have been pretty consistent in saying no to Schneider... so let's assume he's not on the table.

What's your next best alternative?

 

[Ita]

I like how you conveniently ignored the rest of my post where I named four other players of all-star caliber traded for the same damn package, specifically for the purpose of making your point while ignoring mine.

But hey, I'm just the guy sitting here pointing out the obvious trend when it comes to these sorts of trades in the NHL, not the guy thinking he's got the single most cap flexible contender in the NHL by the nuts.

Strawman argument. My reply to you was to point out that your initial argument of using Eichel to establish value was flawed because you didn’t address his injured status and his desire to be traded. The fact that you can’t own up to this basic fact is just sad.

I didn’t “conveniently ignore” the second part of your post because.. I actually agreed with it. What did you want me to say?

My whoe premise was that you should have included a balanced discussion of Eichel. It’s sad you are too proud to admit you didn’t provide one.

 

[pld459666]

Here's a fair deal:

To NYR:
JT Miller and Luke Schenn (whom the Rangers covet Miller and like Schenn a lot)

To Canucks:
Braden Schneider, Vitali Kravtsov, 2022 First Round pick, 2022 4th round pick

Not likely.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

-3 and no points against the lowly Isles last night. Trade value plummeting.

 

[bigdog16]

-3 and no points against the lowly Isles last night. Trade value plummeting.

Reunanan + Kravtsov + 3rd round pick for Miller

 

[bernmeister]

its actually unreasonable for a proven 28 year old 1st line NHL center that is the best forward for the Canucks right now. Would you trade zibanejad for Rathbone?

you cherry pick and as a result my full comments are not fully considered.
Admit this: cheap elc blue chips, of which NYR does not have a surplus is ESSENTAL to both meet cap and have a deep roster. Period.

Slightly improving the roster for an expiring Hertl or a 1.5 season JT is not smart or profitable b'c there are consequences, painful consequences. So no.

 

[bernmeister]

A disgruntled russian reject prospect and a 2nd and some NYR fans think thats reasonable. Guess Canucks could trade Tryamkin and 2nd for Zibanejad. I think HFboard over values marginal prospects to a ridiculous amount. Imagine what Canucks would get for Juolevi 3 years ago? Maybe a Giroux by a NYR fan logic.

Disingenuous.
This is a 9OA talent and it is only b'c politics causing isolated reek of idiocy in NYR GM office that he got the short shrift he did, no fair opportunity, and then was told go to the A b'c we did not properly manage our roster. At which pt he said bend over.

Krav is not crap.

I see him doing well, but he's also the top end young RHD on the Leafs depth chart at the moment. I don't see the Leafs surrendering any more than that offer, and if that ended up being the return, I couldn't really complain, but it's all about getting the best value and fit. Liljegren and Knies hit fit home, but if a Schneider/Miller+Chytl/Kravtsov+1st or something comes to pass, we'd really need to look at who's prospects will fit best.

Fear not, I am yet hopeful that even if NY is stupid enuf to upset a good blueprint for the future going forward, that will not be on the table.

Yea if the Rangers pony up you got to take it. But I was big on Schneider as a leafs fan , and I think thats what might be holding this up. Well probably just go after Luke Schenn as reported and hold pat. Maybe a second rounder.

NYR does not have to pony up

I think that is what former GM Jeff Gorton wanted to do and he got canned, is the NYR owner the same as the Knicks? If yes, doesn't he have a larger than life ego!?

I could be totally wrong tho!

Not exactly.
Gorton was ahead in other areas, but behind on tuffness. You need all that to compete btw, not just skill OR tuffness OR this OR that. This got exacerbated when Caps did a beat down on a depleted NY club which happened to have ALL of their big guys out with injury.
breadman got pummelled and someone [never identified who] properly had the balls to call out NHL director of discipline Parros --- good for them telling him off. However then, Bettman, instead of being stand up and admit Parros was wrong, prob went directly to Dolan and demanded a sacrificial head or 2. Davidson prob wouldn't throw Gorton under the bus, so Dolan canned both and went to fallback position Drury with a little hand holding from a semi retired Slats. I can't prove that but it is plausible and I think that's how it went down.

 

[bernmeister]

If we're getting Schneider and a 1st I don't see how we'd be getting Kravtsov as well. I just doesn't seem realistic to me. I think we'd have to take something lesser back as a 3rd piece, and maybe even give something along with Miller (Motte?).

You MIGHT get Krav b'c of Drury effing this up esp w/his ego here.
You won't get Schneid
The jewel D prospect would be Jones, and none other should be offered, again, assuming an offer is made at all, which it should not be.

 

[Anthony5967]

You MIGHT get Krav b'c of Drury effing this up esp w/his ego here.
You won't get Schneid
The jewel D prospect would be Jones, and none other should be offered, again, assuming an offer is made at all, which it should not be.

Explain why he didn't play in Russia from December 4th to January 11, which was the shutdown?

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Lundy, Kravy, 1st 22, conditional 1st 23 if NY makes cup final either year otherwise 3rd

Cap dump to Vancouver + %50 retention = additional prospects

 

[bernmeister]

Explain why he didn't play in Russia from December 4th to January 11, which was the shutdown?

I have no inside scoop there. What does that have to do w/the price of tea in China?

You don't hook thoroughbreds up to haul stuff and be a beast of burden. You don't run Clydesdales in races. Same reason: neither is a fit.
Krav was drafted to be a first line F. He did not get meaningful mins w/NYR top Fs. He was not given a fair shot. Chump change mins w/4th line chumps, mostly, does not count.

It is not always the case, I admit.
But on this, bern is right and Drury is wrong.

 

[JanBulisPiggyBack]

Also after looking at your roster and your prospects like what the hell you guys why so damn good

 

[CaptainCanuck71]

Question to Rangers fans:

would you rather give up K'Andre Miller than Braden Schneider? We would prefer Schneider (hence the NYR needing to now add a 2nd round pick). Nils Lundqvist is a good young RHD, but we need some more size on our backend to better support QH43.

You need to give to get.

New trade would be:

to NYR:
JT Miller, Luke Schenn, 5th round pick

to VanCity:
K'Andre Miller, Vitali Kravtsov, 2022 1st Round pick + 2022 2nd round pick

The window to win in the new NHL is so short lived due to the salary cap. Chris Drury has a great team, and JT Miller would make it greater.

 

[BPD]

Strawman argument. My reply to you was to point out that your initial argument of using Eichel to establish value was flawed because you didn’t address his injured status and his desire to be traded. The fact that you can’t own up to this basic fact is just sad.

I didn’t “conveniently ignore” the second part of your post because.. I actually agreed with it. What did you want me to say?

My whoe premise was that you should have included a balanced discussion of Eichel. It’s sad you are too proud to admit you didn’t provide one.

If you'd like this to be an honest discussion, let's make it one, and ideally without this nonsense about my pride and owning up to facts. That's not only an actual strawman, it's an ad hominem argument fallacy, especially since it's pretty damn clear my argument doesn't hinge on Eichel.

Your whole premise is that JT Miller is worth top prospects+. It's not that the Eichel discussion is unbalanced. It's that your valuation of JT Miller (or perhaps more accurately that of the Canucks fanbase) is high. My counterpoint is that based on past precedence, your valuation is unrealistic.

Historically speaking during the cap era, regardless of reason or purpose, top players of any kind in any situation get the same package with very few exceptions. It's almost always mid-six forward, high-ish, but not top prospect, and a 1st. The wiggle room usually comes in whether or not there's a fourth piece and if there is it's usually not a super high-quality piece. The only team that's gone beyond a high(ish)-quality fourth piece forward in the past few years is San Jose in the Karlsson deal - and even those pieces were, at the time, pretty minor adds (Balcers, a conditional top 60 pick for keeping Karlsson out west).

Expecting Braden Schneider in this deal is unreasonable based on past precedent. Expecting Zac Jones or Nils Lundkvist might be reasonable. Expecting Filip Chytil is probably bang on.

 

[BPD]

Question to Rangers fans:

would you rather give up K'Andre Miller than Braden Schneider? We would prefer Schneider (hence the NYR needing to now add a 2nd round pick). Nils Lundqvist is a good young RHD, but we need some more size on our backend to better support QH43.

You need to give to get.

New trade would be:

to NYR:
JT Miller, Luke Schenn, 5th round pick

to VanCity:
K'Andre Miller, Vitali Kravtsov, 2022 1st Round pick + 2022 2nd round pick

The window to win in the new NHL is so short lived due to the salary cap. Chris Drury has a great team, and JT Miller would make it greater.

I think the Rangers fanbase would be more comfortable dealing K'Andre Miller than Braden Schneider, if only because Key is a higher risk player and Schneider has been, frankly, great. His ceiling is astronomical, but he's unlikely to hit it in NYC simply because he's not going to be asked to be a two-way force. We've got Jones behind him, who the fans love, but Jones is a very different player than Key. We've also got Robertson next in line there.

At the same time, I think the Rangers brass loves Key. Like, might have Chris Drury-Miller written in hearts in notebooks loves him, largely because of that astronomical ceiling and that he's a big, mobile defender who genuinely learns well. I think they'd need to be absolutely floored to make a deal.

 

[GAGLine]

Question to Rangers fans:

would you rather give up K'Andre Miller than Braden Schneider? We would prefer Schneider (hence the NYR needing to now add a 2nd round pick). Nils Lundqvist is a good young RHD, but we need some more size on our backend to better support QH43.

You need to give to get.

New trade would be:

to NYR:
JT Miller, Luke Schenn, 5th round pick

to VanCity:
K'Andre Miller, Vitali Kravtsov, 2022 1st Round pick + 2022 2nd round pick

The window to win in the new NHL is so short lived due to the salary cap. Chris Drury has a great team, and JT Miller would make it greater.

We aren't giving up either. Maybe some other team will be dumb enough to give you that kind of player, but it won't be the Rangers.

You guys can say that there's no deal without one of them however much you want, but if no other team is offering better than what the Rangers are, and the Rangers aren't including those guys, what are you going to do?

 

[BPD]

We aren't giving up either. Maybe some other team will be dumb enough to give you that kind of player, but it won't be the Rangers.

You guys can say that there's no deal without one of them however much you want, but if no other team is offering better than what the Rangers are, and the Rangers aren't including those guys, what are you going to do?

The Canucks don't actually need to trade JT Miller right this instant or even this season. They're going to have somewhere around 14m in cap space to address a few obvious roster holes and figure out Boeser in the offseason. The "urgency" to move Miller isn't really there unless Miller's putting the screws to them to get it done.

 

[seanlinden]

We aren't giving up either. Maybe some other team will be dumb enough to give you that kind of player, but it won't be the Rangers.

You guys can say that there's no deal without one of them however much you want, but if no other team is offering better than what the Rangers are, and the Rangers aren't including those guys, what are you going to do?

QFT.

The Rangers "trade pieces" have probably realistically already been identified internally.... The 1st rounder, kravtsov. Maybe Jones or Lundqvist, maybe Chytil or Georgiev, and other lesser assets.

They probably look at their pool and say to themselves, if this buyer's market cannot yield substantial quality with those assets, we'll just stand pat another year and grow.

 

[pld459666]

Disingenuous.
This is a 9OA talent and it is only b'c politics causing isolated reek of idiocy in NYR GM office that he got the short shrift he did, no fair opportunity, and then was told go to the A b'c we did not properly manage our roster. At which pt he said bend over.

Krav is not crap.


Fear not, I am yet hopeful that even if NY is stupid enuf to upset a good blueprint for the future going forward, that will not be on the table.

NYR does not have to pony up


Not exactly.
Gorton was ahead in other areas, but behind on tuffness. You need all that to compete btw, not just skill OR tuffness OR this OR that. This got exacerbated when Caps did a beat down on a depleted NY club which happened to have ALL of their big guys out with injury.
breadman got pummelled and someone [never identified who] properly had the balls to call out NHL director of discipline Parros --- good for them telling him off. However then, Bettman, instead of being stand up and admit Parros was wrong, prob went directly to Dolan and demanded a sacrificial head or 2. Davidson prob wouldn't throw Gorton under the bus, so Dolan canned both and went to fallback position Drury with a little hand holding from a semi retired Slats. I can't prove that but it is plausible and I think that's how it went down.

There are thousands of players that never made the big show due to politics.

In fact, the HHOF would be double in size if those players weren't held back by politics.

Just ask them. They will all tell you how great they were and if not for politics they could have been a contenda