(Official) Around the NHL 8.0

[Taranis]

Would be interesting if Dion ended up being traded within like the next hour lol.

 

[InfinityIggy]

I think Lou will be handling the business side of things mostly, his experience will be a huge benefit to Shanahan who is still relatively inexperienced at this. Drafting and trades will likely be handled by the new blood in the organization.

Maybe, but based on his reputation I would be kind of surprised if that was the case.

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

Leafs: "We're going to base our decisions around progressive, stat-based analytics"

Today: "Leafs have hired Lou Lamoriello"

 

[Lunatik]

 

[DCDM]

Would be interesting if Dion ended up being traded within like the next hour lol.

Nothing would surprise me at this point lol

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Very very odd decision.

I hope for Toronto's sake he has no input on drafting or development of prospects. Not exactly a good track record recently in that regard for him.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

@ II and 100TG, pure speculation on my part but I'm wondering if like Burke, Lou is wanting to scale back his duties a little more and still have a major hand in things but have more of an advisory role? He does have top experience in running a team.

 

[InfinityIggy]

@ II and 100TG, pure speculation on my part but I'm wondering if like Burke, Lou is wanting to scale back his duties a little more and still have a major hand in things but have more of an advisory role? He does have top experience in running a team.

Yeah I could maybe see that kind of scenario. Could be he really just wanted to be a part of the Leafs org? Myself and a lot of other people who follow the Devils were actually expecting him to retire this year.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Very very odd decision.

I hope for Toronto's sake he has no input on drafting or development of prospects. Not exactly a good track record recently in that regard for him.

Meh, they drafted a great d-core. Larsson/Severson/Gelinas/Merrill. Plus freebies like Andy Greene and Mark Fayne (no longer a Devil). Secondly, Lou will be a good Mentor for Dubas. Lastly Lou has money to play with know.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Yeah I could maybe see that kind of scenario. Could be he really just wanted to be a part of the Leafs org? Myself and a lot of other people who follow the Devils were actually expecting him to retire this year.

That was my first thought, I mean the Devils hired Shero and Lou then moved to solely to remain as president. Maybe the Leafs offered him a position that interested him more, he has more of a hand in managing the operations of the team but is now taking more of a backseat in personnel decisions.

 

[Lunatik]

Very very odd decision.

I hope for Toronto's sake he has no input on drafting or development of prospects. Not exactly a good track record recently in that regard for him.

I hope he does have input

 

[Zirakzigil]

I think this is the exact same situation JR had with the Canes/Pens. Ownership wanted new blood but did not want to fire a long time and well known manager, so they force them to give up the GM role. Personally I don't think this was a good idea for the Leafs. They have their well known guy in Shanny to take the media pressure and should have gone with some new blood for GM.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

Meh, they drafted a great d-core. Larsson/Severson/Gelinas/Merrill. Plus freebies like Andy Greene and Mark Fayne (no longer a Devil). Secondly, Lou will be a good Mentor for Dubas. Lastly Lou has money to play with know.

And how many decent forwards outside of Henrique in the past few years? How many goalies?

Arguably they severely ****ed up developing Larsson as well. They have a bunch of young guys who had good to okay rookie seasons, some better than others. I'm hesitant to call them a core at this point.

And money to play with? He's had way too much in recent years.

Clowe $4.85M
Zajac $5.75M (25 points last year)
Cammy $5.0M (not a bad signing just proof he had money to spend)
Ruutu $3.8M (trade sure but still money spent)
Henrique $4M (again not bad just money spent)

Not to mention the money thrown away on signing guys like Havlat, Ryder, Salvador, Zubrus when they all clearly had nothing left.

Lou used to be the best GM in the league for a long time. He hasn't been the same for a while. The cup finals was one last gasp of Black Magic from him.

PS Their team roster is a gong show on their website right now. http://devils.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

 

[HAKAN LOOB]

And how many decent forwards outside of Henrique in the past few years? How many goalies?

Arguably they severely ****ed up developing Larsson as well. They have a bunch of young guys who had good to okay rookie seasons, some better than others. I'm hesitant to call them a core at this point.

And money to play with? He's had way too much in recent years.

Clowe $4.85M
Zajac $5.75M (25 points last year)
Cammy $5.0M (not a bad signing just proof he had money to spend)
Ruutu $3.8M (trade sure but still money spent)
Henrique $4M (again not bad just money spent)

Not to mention the money thrown away on signing guys like Havlat, Ryder, Salvador, Zubrus when they all clearly had nothing left.

Lou used to be the best GM in the league for a long time. He hasn't been the same for a while. The cup finals was one last gasp of Black Magic from him.

PS Their team roster is a gong show on their website right now. http://devils.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

In regards to the bolded; it's quite obvious that Petey DeBoer was the guy who held Larsson back, I don't even like Larsson, but he started to play WAAAAY better, once the coaching staff became Lou, Oates and Stevens.

 

[InfinityIggy]

In regards to the bolded; it's quite obvious that Petey DeBoer was the guy who held Larsson back, I don't even like Larsson, but he started to play WAAAAY better, once the coaching staff became Lou, Oates and Stevens.

DeBoer was 100% the reason Larsson struggled. Nothing to do with how the team was built.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

DeBoer was 100% the reason Larsson struggled. Nothing to do with how the team was built.

Okay so as a General Manager you are responsible for your coach. You are responsible for a player sitting in the press box instead of playing.

Deboer obviously played a large role. But as the guy that hired him and was responsible for him, Lou absolutely bears some of the blame.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

And how many decent forwards outside of Henrique in the past few years? How many goalies?

Arguably they severely ****ed up developing Larsson as well. They have a bunch of young guys who had good to okay rookie seasons, some better than others. I'm hesitant to call them a core at this point.

And money to play with? He's had way too much in recent years.

Clowe $4.85M
Zajac $5.75M (25 points last year)
Cammy $5.0M (not a bad signing just proof he had money to spend)
Ruutu $3.8M (trade sure but still money spent)
Henrique $4M (again not bad just money spent)

Not to mention the money thrown away on signing guys like Havlat, Ryder, Salvador, Zubrus when they all clearly had nothing left.

Lou used to be the best GM in the league for a long time. He hasn't been the same for a while. The cup finals was one last gasp of Black Magic from him.

PS Their team roster is a gong show on their website right now. http://devils.nhl.com/club/roster.htm

I never said they had drafted a decent Forward core. Reason they have such a bad forward corps is their 2 best forwards left within a year of each other.

Imagine if they still had Kovy and Parise. They'd be looking for a #1 Center. And probably no Clowe or Ruutu.

 

[InfinityIggy]

Okay so as a General Manager you are responsible for your coach. You are responsible for a player sitting in the press box instead of playing.

Deboer obviously played a large role. But as the guy that hired him and was responsible for him, Lou absolutely bears some of the blame.

Sure, Lou allowing DeBoer to stick around for so long is absolutely on him. I was just refuting the Larsson point of your post specifically.

 

[Lunatik]

So who will win when Lou wants to fire Babcock at Christmas?

 

[DCDM]

So who will win when Lou wants to fire Babcock at Christmas?

Babcock, pretty easily I would think.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I never said they had drafted a decent Forward core. Reason they have such a bad forward corps is their 2 best forwards left within a year of each other.

Imagine if they still had Kovy and Parise. They'd be looking for a #1 Center. And probably no Clowe or Ruutu.

I don't disagree on the Parise and Koivu points. But on the other hand outside of Henrique they haven't drafted and developed a forward worth a damn since 2004. You could maybe argue for Bergfors in 2005 but he burned out pretty fast and his most noticeable accomplishment was being part of the Kovalchuk trade.

As the Flames learned the hard way, you cannot succeed in the NHL today if you cannot draft and develop well. One forward in the past DECADE is inexcusable.

Edit: In fact, if you go back to 1999, you add Parise yes, but other than that? The most noticeable forwards drafted? Cam Janssen and Mike Rupp. Not exactly world beaters.

The last time NJ drafted and developed two legit at consistent top six forwards outside of Parise, Henrique and Zajac was 1998 with Gionta and Gomez.

Sure, Lou allowing DeBoer to stick around for so long is absolutely on him. I was just refuting the Larsson point of your post specifically.

But if Lou knows Larsson is struggling or sitting in the pressbox too much it becomes his problem even more if he isn't sending him down (which he did, eventually...). The Devil's got lucky and won the lottery to move up and take Larsson and then took them years to actually use him properly. Thats on Lou too.

Again guys, I think Lou was fantastic and arguably the best for a long time. I'm just playing devils advocate on this being a good move for Toronto. Especially a Toronto team in a rebuild. Lou hasn't really shown he can do those in forever.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

I don't disagree on the Parise and Koivu points. But on the other hand outside of Henrique they haven't drafted and developed a forward worth a damn since 2004. You could maybe argue for Bergfors in 2005 but he burned out pretty fast and his most noticeable accomplishment was being part of the Kovalchuk trade.

As the Flames learned the hard way, you cannot succeed in the NHL today if you cannot draft and develop well. One forward in the past DECADE is inexcusable.

Edit: In fact, if you go back to 1999, you add Parise yes, but other than that? The most noticeable forwards drafted? Cam Janssen and Mike Rupp. Not exactly world beaters.

The last time NJ drafted and developed two legit at consistent top six forwards outside of Parise, Henrique and Zajac was 1998 with Gionta and Gomez.

(...)
.

When you have(had) 2 legit top liners in Kovy and Parise you tend to draft on BPA, rather than for need.

 

[tmurfin]

So who will win when Lou wants to fire Babcock at Christmas?

Was just thinking this.. Hard to imagine how these two hard heads are going to get along. Especially with the word that Babs wanted full control over his players and movement of them.

Odd move to say the least, seems like the opposite direction the Leafs were going, unless they're doing the whole "Let's throw big money at every big hockey name and it'll bring success" model, which usually doesn't work too well

 

[Lunatik]

Was just thinking this.. Hard to imagine how these two hard heads are going to get along. Especially with the word that Babs wanted full control over his players and movement of them.

Odd move to say the least, seems like the opposite direction the Leafs were going, unless they're doing the whole "Let's throw big money at every big hockey name and it'll bring success" model, which usually doesn't work too well

Hasn't that been their M.O pretty much forever? Ownership is too impatient to allow them to build a team properly, they basically have a license to print money whether they win or lose so they don't care about winning.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

When you have(had) 2 legit top liners in Kovy and Parise you tend to draft on BPA, rather than for need.

Are you seriously trying to defend not being able to draft and develop forwards properly for over a decade because of a two (three?) year period where they had both Kovy and Parise?

Of course you go BPA. Thats common sense.

Lets look at 2001 to lets say 2011. That way we aren't counting mostly still developing prospects (18-22 age group). The following players they have drafted have played more than 100 games for the Devils.

Cam Janssen (336 Career Games) Face puncher
Zach Parise (692 Career Games) Obvious talent is obvious
Niclas Bergfors (173 Career Games) Busted out
Mark Fayne (316 Career Games) Solid bottom 3 defenseman
Mark Fraser (219 Career Games) Plug
Travis Zajac (625 Career Games) Complimentary top six forward (at best lately)
Mattias Tedenby (120 Career Games) Bust
Adam Henrique (269 Career Games) Solid 40 point two way forward.
Eric Gelinas (122 Career Games) promising puck mover who needs work defensively
Jacob Josefson (180 Career Games) 36 career points. Bottom six at best.
Jon Merill (118 Career Games) Solid player with questionable behaviour in the past
Adam Larsson (192 Career Games) finally blooming defenseman

Others of note:
Severson
Matteau
Santini
Greene (undrafted)
Boucher (only goalie of note really at 41 games)

Out of 86 draft picks from 2001-2011 you have 8 players of note. Only ONE of which I would call a first line player, maybe two second line players in Henrique and Zajac and the latter is questionable, a solid young D in Larsson, solid bottom pairing in Fayne and three young defensemen with a strong chance of being quality NHL'ers.

Hell, that's almost Flames level of drafting bad in that same time period.