(Official) Around the NHL 8.0

[RedHot]

Quoted from another Flames site:

Engelland played with a lot of different players over the regular season. Here's the 100+ minutes club. CF %

Player
Together
Apart
Diff.

Brodie
36.4%
47.7%
-11.3%

Diaz
45.6%
47.3%
-1.7%

Bouma
35.1%
44.7%
-9.6%

Gaudreau
44.7%
47.0%
-2.3%

Colborne
38.8%
44.0%
-5.2%

Jones
40.2%
45.2%
-5.0%

Smid
39.8%
44.0%
-4.2%

Stajan
36.4%
48.8%
-12.4%

Backlund
41.7%
47.1%
-5.4%

Bollig
40.2%
42.1%
-1.9%

Raymond
39.6%
44.7%
-5.1%

Monahan
45.9%
45.5%
+0.4%

Hudler
48.5%
46.0%
+2.5%

Jooris
39.5%
49.5%
-10.0%

Byron
41.6%
48.2%
-6.6%

Granlund
35.9%
43.1%
-7.2%

Glencross
46.0%
45.7%
+0.3%

Let's not dress it up: these are awful, awful results. He simply makes almost everyone around him worse.


But he's "truculent", so thats a reason to excuse/ignore these numbers.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

It astonishes me how much time and energy people put into showing that Engelland is a #6/7 defenseman on this team...

 

[Lunatik]

I don't expect you to value my opinion much, given how fundamentally we disagree on almost everything.

Since you don't go for the statistical arguments, the only way we could ever possibly hope to hash this out is by watching a shift-by-shift video of Engelland and arguing about it (if one existed, I would actually be willing to do that). But we obviously see a different player at the center of it; I see a low mobility, positionally questionable dude with zero puck skills, and you see a large defensive specialist who clears the crease.

I will say, I don't disagree that he clears the crease or that he's a rough guy to play against. I just don't think those aspects of his game are close to enough to make up for his deficiencies everywhere else. His defense in transition is poor, his abilities in the offensive zone are non-existent, he can't make a breakout pass to save his life, and his agility isn't good enough for him to cover the ice he needs to in many cases.

You do realize that he is a bottom pairing guy right? If bottom pairing guys didn't have major flaws in their games they wouldn't be bottom pairing guys. The difference in our opinion is really quite simple, you expect too much from low end players (or maybe you focus too much on their pay cheques), I expect low end players to make mistakes, I expect them to have deficiencies. Engelland definitely is not "low mobility" though, he actually moves fairly well for a player of his ilk. Yes, he is poor offensively and his positioning is that of a bottom pairing defenseman.

But there is more to the game than skill. Heart, determination, hard work and all those things play a big part and Engelland has those in spades. Those things (I believe they are commonly referred to as intangibles) being prevalent up and down our lineup is exactly why the Flames were able to accomplish what they did. Our defense was not a whole lot different than the previous year, the major difference other than health was Engelland coming in and playing the role that neither O'Brien or Butler was unable to play. Yet Engelland despite having less skills than Butler was able to perform better than that guys he replaced.

 

[GAMO1992]

In ACTUAL around the NHL news
Devin Setoguchi signed a PTO with the Leafs with an invite to camp.
Interesting.

 

[Volica]

In ACTUAL around the NHL news
Devin Setoguchi signed a PTO with the Leafs with an invite to camp.
Interesting.

Good for the Gooch!

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Good for the Gooch!

I wish the guy well, in both hockey and in life.

 

[tmurfin]

Hopefully he can get it together, he really is an NHL talent.. Best of luck to Seto

 

[Taranis]

Nice.

 

[Dertell]

it's percentage of goals for. not a gf/ga ratio. which is also pointless because different players play different roles. Engelland gets next to no offensive zone starts, on a team as terrible at faceoffs as us that is a death sentence. It's natural for a defense only player to be scored on more, especially on the road where they would get the worst matchups.

Everytime you say something like "Engelland is a boat anchor", it makes me value your opinion even less because it is not even close to being true.

You don't understand what GF% is. GF% is GoalFor / (GoalFor+GoalAgainst), so not just the goal the team scored. GF% is a stupid way to evaluate defensemen in general because they have no control over their on-ice shooting% and save%. A good example is Russell, whos high GF% is more due to getting to play A LOT with Hudler, Monahan and Gaudreau than anything else.

But that's not the point. If you're into the whole "defensive defensemen" thing that much... it has to show somewhere. He had a 2.71 GA60 (goals allowed per 60 mins). When Engelland was NOT on the ice, the flames' GA60 was 2.19.

Engelland getting "next to no offensive zone starts" is just untrue. Sure when he was paired he was paired with Brodie he got tough zone starts but before that it was average relative to the rest of the club and he still had an awful 2.74 GA60. Not to mention his defensive zone starts were mostly self-inflicted by being the number 1 cause of icings.

If the flames had any actual "defensive defensemen" last year, it was probably Schlemko. No idea what you guys see in Engelland that makes him better, eye test (getting constantly pylon'd more than anything else) or otherwise.

It astonishes me how much time and energy people put into showing that Engelland is a #6/7 defenseman on this team...

#6/7? I'm not that generous.

In ACTUAL around the NHL news
Devin Setoguchi signed a PTO with the Leafs with an invite to camp.
Interesting.

Seeing these moves Toronto are making, I'm surprised they didn't beat MTL's offer for Semin. Maybe they did but he wanted to play for a contender?

 

[Flames Fanatic]

#6/7? I'm not that generous.

Very rarely does a defenseman play over 300 career games in the NHL if he isn't at least a 6/7.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Jim Benning needs more Meat n' Potatoes. Vancouver signed former Flame pick Adam Cracknell.

 

[Calculon]

Oilers fans complaining about the Flames means at least something is going right in the world.

But much worse is the small segment of fans who complain about bad luck or the Flames getting all the breaks because Sweeney traded Hamilton to Calgary. Apparently, McDavid counts for nothing to them.

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

Yeah the last thing Oilers fans should be complaining about are getting all the breaks.

 

[Lunatik]

blah blah blah advanced stats

well then GF% is a stupid and misleading name, but it's suitable I suppose since that sums up 99% of the advanced stats

 

[Dertell]

well then GF% is a stupid and misleading name, but it's suitable I suppose since that sums up 99% of the advanced stats

Goals are an advanced stat now?

Oilers fans complaining about the Flames means at least something is going right in the world.

But much worse is the small segment of fans who complain about bad luck or the Flames getting all the breaks because Sweeney traded Hamilton to Calgary. Apparently, McDavid counts for nothing to them.

Make all the sense in the world Oilers fans would view competent management as luck.

 

[Anglesmith]

Guys, seems like a good time to point out this part of the Site Rules:

2) Trolling: Do not make posts or threads with the sole intent of starting a dispute. Please note that a person disagreeing with your opinion is NOT trolling. Please keep it civil even if you're sure the other person is wrong. When visiting the team forums, please note that these are fan forums for that team and are here mainly for the enjoyment of that team's fans. Do not visit team forums to cheer against nor demean their team. In other words, if you want to cheer for the Habs and criticize the Bruins, do it on the Habs board. And if someone is doing the opposite on the Bruins board, don't start flaming them to defend the honor of your team. Either ignore it or respectfully disagree and move on. Wishing illness or injury on someone will be regarded as trolling or offensive in most cases. We do not permit any forums to be used to demean/insult the fans of other teams. This is viewed as trolling/flaming. Copying posts from one HFBoard forum to another for this purpose is considered trolling/flaming as well.

Basically, any statement of "X fans are Y" is against the rules. Don't do it.

 

[tmurfin]

Seeing some of them question our cap situation made me think, it's going to be interesting seeing Chia handle their cap, considering the number he did in Boston. Honestly feel bad for Sweeney, he obviously has made some rookie mistakes but let's be honest, Chia dumped a young talent in Seguin and went on to leave the team and cap in shambles.

 

[Volica]

Seeing some of them question our cap situation made me think, it's going to be interesting seeing Chia handle their cap, considering the number he did in Boston. Honestly feel bad for Sweeney, he obviously has made some rookie mistakes but let's be honest, Chia dumped a young talent in Seguin and went on to leave the team and cap in shambles.

He went all in, really. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't; it got them a cup... But also killed their contending chances.

It's going to be really interesting to see how he manages that Oilers group. They gave out those Young Gun 6 million specials to anyone who showed they could score 25 goals before they were legal in the states. What's funny is if Talbot's the answer, and he puts up some numbers, he's UFA after this year, so they'll have to give him some change to stay there.

That depth is still lower end past the second line, and that defence is still one of the worst in the entire league. They have some bloated contracts coming off the books fairly soon... It'll be interesting to see what they spend it on.

 

[Volica]

I wish the guy well, in both hockey and in life.

100%, it's nice to really cheer for the guys that have some personal demons and are able to move on from it. It makes guys like Big Ern and Tootoo success stories.

Like some of the folks before that were coming down on Ferland. This life thing is hard; and especially for some of these guys who might not have the best influences or other factors, clearly outside of their control (not going to get into any discussion about backgrounds, etc). You really cheer for them the best you can and hope for the best

Ferland's mom story from the playoffs last year was really touching. I hope he cracks our lineup next year in a big bad way.

 

[1989]

Guys, seems like a good time to point out this part of the Site Rules:



Basically, any statement of "X fans are Y" is against the rules. Don't do it.

Our fans are the best.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

Seeing some of them question our cap situation made me think, it's going to be interesting seeing Chia handle their cap, considering the number he did in Boston. Honestly feel bad for Sweeney, he obviously has made some rookie mistakes but let's be honest, Chia dumped a young talent in Seguin and went on to leave the team and cap in shambles.

If Monahan and Gaudreau warrant 6.0m+ contracts they're doing something right. "Always earned never given."


The Oiler special, 6m X 6 years.

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

If Monahan and Gaudreau warrant 6.0m+ contracts they're doing something right. "Always earned never given."


The Oiler special, 6m X 6 years.

It looked goofy then, but I think Eberle, Hall and Nuge are worth what they are making. It still looks goofy because of the dumpster fire of coaching/goaltending and coaching.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

It looked goofy then, but I think Eberle, Hall and Nuge are worth what they are making. It still looks goofy because of the dumpster fire of coaching/goaltending and coaching.

Salary cap and what not. Looks a bit better. But agreed still quite goofy.

Maybe it's the players.. 5 coaches (+1 intern).

 

[Pirate King Luffy]

also add defense in there. That is a factor as well.

 

[Johnny GODreau]

also add defense in there. That is a factor as well.

Yeah. They're lacking in some quality defense (Forward and D). But we'll just stick "X's" Back-up.