Off-Season Roster Thread #2 -- Nothing to do but wait

[jc17]

Pegulas want a Ottawa, Az to the cap model here. 85 pts 22-23

I'd rather have that than spend to the cap and finish with 65. At least the organizational efficiency is improving

 

[Fjordsen]

Well at least not for free.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

I'd rather have that than spend to the cap and finish with 65. At least the organizational efficiency is improving

lets see how many fans return with that, not me

 

[Djp]

As I'm looking at the rangers and specifically the Trouba trade.

That was made in 2019 when NYR had just gotten the rights to Fox. The previous year they drafted K'Andre Miller and Lundkvist early. They knew they had a solid young defense. Really feels like a similar deal to pursue this summer, a prime aged RHD to really solidify that top 4 for the next 5 years. Dumba seems like a possible good fit there, but I think there could be others out there as well. Maybe something like Joker + 28th for Dumba? With the obvious signing him to a long extension after.

when it comes to RD….buffalo shoukd wait to see what they get at 9/16/28 in terms of RD before going to acquire a Dman like Dumba who not strong defensively.

plan on Dahlin being 1RD

Minnesota needs to add to get Joki given buffalo has his rights fir 3 yrs and on a cheap contract. Not adding a 2nd to Joki fir a signed Dumba that woukd be a cap headache 4 yrs from now.

So let me try to understand this correctly. The Pegulas want to spend as little money as possible on players. So KA would go out and spend 3.5 million on a player that will never play and adding an extra 1.5 million above the salary to the cap?

I would rather just give Hino 3.5 million dollars next year. Way over payment, but at least you used the little cash we have for a serviceable player.

Also, why do people think we will have issues getting to the floor at all? Have people looked at this roster lately? All we need to do if add 18 million. VO will cost 5.5 ish, Bryson about 1.5, goalies will cost 6 ish, a new d man will cost 6 ish.

So we really have zero plans to go after a top forward, whether through trade or FA. That is extremely disappointing. I can't stand when people act like this team is littered with PPG players. We have lots of young players that could be improved on.

buffalo is not in the big free agent market. They want future cap flexibility and se what develops.

I'm not so sure it does. We are FORTY million under the cap. Before this, we were TWENTY million from the floor.

I think most around here (note: most) understand that we're likely to stand pat at forward or maybe bring in a low-cost 3rd/4th line center.

Yes, we need some goalies and a defensemen. But getting Bishop early ensures that if we can't attract free agents, we aren't stuck into throwing stupid money around even for a year.

based on my projections in resigning UPL, Bryson, and Olofsson and promoting Fitzgerald purpose buffalo around 12/6/1 for $58M. UPL still can go down. Buffalo isnt in the need to get a cap dump.

they coukd sign 2 vet goalies at $2M. A vet D pkaying 7th role woukd be another $2M which put them above the floor after filling out the roster.

with UPL they coukd sign him to a 3 yr contract with salary like 1.2M-$2M-$2.8M fir a $2M cap hit. If he’s sent down there is residual left.

The bold is the problem a lot of us have. I don't expect to sign big time UFA's or trade a bunch of picks/prospects. But there are things they can/need to do (goaltending) so they don't punt yet another season.

At what point are we competing for the playoffs?

the team finished strong. I’m confident theycan compete.

Well that's it guys. This is the only move Adams is making and it's only June 10th. Way to pack it in for next season and cancel the ESPN+ membership.

this trade was made now but it might not be official till after he’s paid his bonus money

The Pegulas are paying Bishop $3.5M on a $4.9M cap charge. That's not a huge "cash savings" to be honest.

It's not like the Boychuk situation where I think we paid under $1M in actual cash for $6M in salary cap dollars. (obviously the insurance will pay part of it, but still it's a much higher ratio of actual-to-cap dollars than Boychuk)

Not if it’s not official till contract bonus is paid+ insurance makes this much lower actual salary vs cap hit.

Boychuk was paid bonus money. If he acquired Boychuk before trading Eichel, then it changes the dynamic on getting Tuch vs getting a yong player.

 

[old kummelweck]

Something something about a deal for P Kane to buffalo on serious XM NHL network today. Anyone hear this?

 

[CaliSabresfan24]

 

[Der Jaeger]

Everyone re-read the second bullet point under why it works for the Sabres.

A big payday is coming for a lot of Sabres. It’s going to be hard to find good players to come to Buffalo as free agents on short enough deals not to screw the cap up in the future.

 

[Zman5778]

I feel like this whole "weaponizing cap space" is something that needs to be clairifed:

Teams weaponize cap space by taking HEALTHY, PLAYABLE NHL players on terrible deals in exchange for something good. Like Lucic or Ladd.

Buffalo is in no position to truly weaponize their cap space for a multitude of reasons:
1.) It takes up roster space which could be used to develop the kids who are obviously NHL-ready.
b.) You run a real risk of pissing off a player and player agent by trading for a bloated cap hit and then benching a player permanently if said player is still capable of playing in the NHL. Said player and/or agent could then poison the well against the front office.....making FA deals even harder than they already are.
iii.) We've got real money extensions coming up soon. If we weaponize our space now.....it's going to be used against us when Dahlin, Cozens, Power, Tage, Krebs, etc need extensions.

 

[Gras]

Everyone re-read the second bullet point under why it works for the Sabres.

A big payday is coming for a lot of Sabres. It’s going to be hard to find good players to come to Buffalo as free agents on short enough deals not to screw the cap up in the future.

You mean to tell me there are logical reasons for the move other than Pegula cheap, KA bad, get outta here.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

You mean to tell me there are logical reasons for the move other than Pegula cheap, KA bad, get outta here.

Nope, Pegulas are cheap it's written in stone now. All those years of spending to the cap, throwing money at big contracts are in the rear view mirror. The future is cap floor and when players earn a payday we trade them or let them walk.

All because they own a yacht

 

[Zach716]

I wonder if a Rosen/Dach swap with added value either way to balance it out would be of interest.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

I wonder if a Rosen/Dach swap with added value either way to balance it out would be of interest.

Dach is interesting. I was also wondering if something around Puljujarvi/Mitts would work. I'm sure not everyone will agree with trading Mitts but it may be a change of scenery type of trade for both players. I'd still be hesitant but Puljujarvi seems like a player who would mesh well with Cozens to me.

 

[Dingo44]

Dach is interesting. I was also wondering if something around Puljujarvi/Mitts would work. I'm sure not everyone will agree with trading Mitts but it may be a change of scenery type of trade for both players. I'd still be hesitant but Puljujarvi seems like a player who would mesh well with Cozens to me.

I'm a firm no on Mitts for Puljujarvi.

 

[Fezzy126]

Dach is interesting. I was also wondering if something around Puljujarvi/Mitts would work. I'm sure not everyone will agree with trading Mitts but it may be a change of scenery type of trade for both players. I'd still be hesitant but Puljujarvi seems like a player who would mesh well with Cozens to me.

Mitts was very good down the stretch a year ago after Krueger got fired, he was our best player in training camp this year before getting hurt, and he was 4th among the forwards in scoring from March 1st on while not playing at full strength:

It boggles my mind that his name keeps getting thrown out there as a trade candidate.

 

[WhereAreTheCookies]

Mitts was very good down the stretch a year ago after Krueger got fired, he was our best player in training camp this year before getting hurt, and he was 4th among the forwards in scoring from March 1st on while not playing at full strength:

View attachment 557860

It boggles my mind that his name keeps getting thrown out there as a trade candidate.

As I said, not everyone will agree with me. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions on the matter. I just don't happen to be overly impressed by a 47 point pace in a 28 game sample size from a player in his D+5 year.

 

[SundherDome]

Hey Jeremy -- this isn't a video game. We can't just offer "actual players" a contract and they just take it. Hell, we can't offer "actual players" stupid money and assume they take it.

This is a way to cover our asses in case we can't entice any "actual players" via free agency. We're nowhere near hitting the ceiling.

I mean we could. You could throw Subban 1 year @ 4 million or Caggiula the same deal. There will be fringe guys looking for a job who like money.

 

[K8fool]

Watching the playoffs , not signing oloffson would be ridiculous.. Mitts will challenge the talented Thompson fir 1c after a healthy off-season..

 

[Snippit]

I mean we could. You could throw Subban 1 year @ 4 million or Caggiula the same deal. There will be fringe guys looking for a job who like money.

This hurts you when you try to re-sign your RFAs. They can say, if X 4th liner who scored 14 points is making 4 million, what am I worth?

 

[Zman5778]

I mean we could. You could throw Subban 1 year @ 4 million or Caggiula the same deal. There will be fringe guys looking for a job who like money.

We could. But then we're throw off the whole UFA market and get some GMs really pissed with us.

There's a reason the NHL has never really seen this done.

 

[JLewyB]

We could. But then we're throw off the whole UFA market and get some GMs really pissed with us.

There's a reason the NHL has never really seen this done.

We signed meszaros for 4 million back in the tank era I believe.

 

[Zman5778]

We signed meszaros for 4 million back in the tank era I believe.

Not really the same. He had just gotten a 3rd round pick as a deadline acquisition and was just coming off of a $4m AAV contract. He had just gotten 22 points in 52 games. Maybe he was a bit overpaid......but nothing like throwing $4m at Drake Caggiula.

Nothing really pointed to the stupendous decline that was forthcoming.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

I think the problem is if you miss, then you're out-leveraged needing to get to the floor.

While it seems likely more teams would happily unload cap, risking losing the musical chair game is, well, risky.

And while a team could just throw money at a random UFA, I think the reality of that is uglier than most think. Guys get overpaid all the time, but imagine being a guy like Tage who signed for 1.4M when the team had plenty of cap room, just to see them hand out a $6M deal to some scrub because they couldn't manage the cap.

There will always be more teams looking to shed salary than add it though. Worst case is you have to make another Boychuk type deal for nothing instead of a R7 pick. That's not a huge loss. Even if Phoenix get the 'best' dumps first - we wouldn't be standing without a chair to sit on.

And I'm not advocating throwing money at 'random' UFAs. I'm targeting the best two players to fill two specific holes in the roster where no young players are there to get 'blocked'. I'm doing whatever it takes to get the two best players there, short term.

I don't know what upcoming RFAs like TT have to do with this. You can't compare short term UFA contracts to long term RFA contracts. The players know this just as much as we do. They aren't dumb (most aren't at least)!

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Not really the same. He had just gotten a 3rd round pick as a deadline acquisition and was just coming off of a $4m AAV contract. He had just gotten 22 points in 52 games. Maybe he was a bit overpaid......but nothing like throwing $4m at Drake Caggiula.

Nothing really pointed to the stupendous decline that was forthcoming.

It's exactly the same. If anything Meszaros was worse because it was obvious he wouldn't be playing a big role. We have an obvious hole in the top 4 which needs filling. I'd actually like someone better than the 2022 version of PK Subban - but they could also do worse.

If you're giving PK 5 x 4m then you'd have a point - but overpaying him for 1 year won't throw the market...

 

[TehDoak]

Mitts was very good down the stretch a year ago after Krueger got fired, he was our best player in training camp this year before getting hurt, and he was 4th among the forwards in scoring from March 1st on while not playing at full strength:

View attachment 557860

It boggles my mind that his name keeps getting thrown out there as a trade candidate.

It's more mind boggling that people think he's suddenly going to develop.

Everyone keeps talking about 'down the stretch' last year where he scored 17 points in the last 23 games under Granato. When he was gifted top line ice time and had zero defensive responsibilities. Not to mention he was also shooting at 21% clip, more than double his career average.

Now people are pointing to from March 1 on? It's 16 pts in 28 games. In a year when the scoring was up. It's not impressive production for a top 10 draft pick.

I certainly understand we botched his development. In the end, we are talking about 80 pts in 196 NHL games. That isn't scoring forward level production, not even close. His upside at this point in a secondary scoring forward. And it's probably 50/50 or worse that he gets to that level.

Why trade him? Because he's an unproductive vet (5 NHL seasons at this point) and he's blocking Quinn/Peterka/Krebs/Cozens from quality ice time, something Kevyn said he wouldn't do. He's an overpaid (thanks Kevyn) project player. People need to stop remember the WJCs and look at the player he actually is. He wasn't dominate in college, he wasn't dominant at the AHL. He's not suddenly going to be a great NHL player.

 

[Fezzy126]

It's more mind boggling that people think he's suddenly going to develop.

Everyone keeps talking about 'down the stretch' last year where he scored 17 points in the last 23 games under Granato. When he was gifted top line ice time and had zero defensive responsibilities. Not to mention he was also shooting at 21% clip, more than double his career average.

Now people are pointing to from March 1 on? It's 16 pts in 28 games. In a year when the scoring was up. It's not impressive production for a top 10 draft pick.

I certainly understand we botched his development. In the end, we are talking about 80 pts in 196 NHL games. That isn't scoring forward level production, not even close. His upside at this point in a secondary scoring forward. And it's probably 50/50 or worse that he gets to that level.

Why trade him? Because he's an unproductive vet (5 NHL seasons at this point) and he's blocking Quinn/Peterka/Krebs/Cozens from quality ice time, something Kevyn said he wouldn't do. He's an overpaid (thanks Kevyn) project player. People need to stop remember the WJCs and look at the player he actually is. He wasn't dominate in college, he wasn't dominant at the AHL. He's not suddenly going to be a great NHL player.

Your post says that you understand we botched his development, but I don't think you do.
1) He was brought up to the NHL too early
2) Had poor coaching under Kreuger
3) Had to play with poor supporting cast while
4) Suffered a major injury for the first time in his career

You can't possibly understand all of that and then flippantly look at his points and make a conclusion about his long term potential.

Oh, and the "gifted top line ice time and had zero defensive responsibilities" is absolute nonsense, it's not even close to true.