Off-Season Roster Thread #2 -- Nothing to do but wait

[Rowley Birkin]

I'm not so sure it does. We are FORTY million under the cap. Before this, we were TWENTY million from the floor.

I think most around here (note: most) understand that we're likely to stand pat at forward or maybe bring in a low-cost 3rd/4th line center.

Yes, we need some goalies and a defensemen. But getting Bishop early ensures that if we can't attract free agents, we aren't stuck into throwing stupid money around even for a year.

It's the timing though.

Shoot for those couple of UFAs on silly money but short term deals. THEN if you miss - make a move like this to become cap compliant (eg Boychuk). Not now!

 

[ValJamesDuex]

I hate this team, go bills.

Hockey desert

Not even PK will come here with this shite

 

[Zman5778]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Yes. They’re looking to make the appearance of the floor without spending actual money. They could ALSO get to the floor with actual players if they choose to.</p>&mdash; Jeremy White (@JeremyWGR) <a href="">June 10, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Hey Jeremy -- this isn't a video game. We can't just offer "actual players" a contract and they just take it. Hell, we can't offer "actual players" stupid money and assume they take it.

This is a way to cover our asses in case we can't entice any "actual players" via free agency. We're nowhere near hitting the ceiling.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Seriously, KA can quickly get out with this crap.

This team has turned into a minor league franchise.

Darcy Jr running the show

 

[threeVo]

The bold is the problem a lot of us have. I don't expect to sign big time UFA's or trade a bunch of picks/prospects. But there are things they can/need to do (goaltending) so they don't punt yet another season.

At what point are we competing for the playoffs?

There is going to be some growing pains with such a young roster. They might have an outside chance to sneak in this year with above average goal tending, but until they solve that I am not betting they get in. If Boston falls apart it helps. Our division is a powerhouse, that is part of the reason. Put us out West and I could see it being a better option.

 

[Dirty Dog]

We only have so many roster spots…unless you literally want to overpay with bad contracts, this is needed. It’s a side effect of building a team through young players


It’s funny, because the three of you that always complain…..you’d be the first complaining if we overpaid UFAs to come here.

 

[jc17]

We're getting a 7th because we're saving the Stars like $3.5 million in real money. That's what it comes down to, I'm pretty sure.

7th still seems low for that.

I'll go with a $3.5M "Thanks for blocking Jack from the playoffs" gift

 

[Zman5778]

Shoot for those couple of UFAs on silly money but short term deals. THEN if you miss - make a move like this to become cap compliant (eg Boychuk). Not now!

It's a "chicken or egg" argument. I don't mind it now, as it gives KA a sense of "we don't need to get really stupid on free agency".

I don't want to be forced into spending $7/8 million on a guy like Jack Campbell just to hit the floor.

 

[Dingo44]

Well that's it guys. This is the only move Adams is making and it's only June 10th. Way to pack it in for next season and cancel the ESPN+ membership.

 

[BloFan4Life]

Hey Jeremy -- this isn't a video game. We can't just offer "actual players" a contract and they just take it. Hell, we can't offer "actual players" stupid money and assume they take it.

This is a way to cover our asses in case we can't entice any "actual players" via free agency. We're nowhere near hitting the ceiling.

Pegulas arent in the business of throwing money away. This move would have been made after the attempts were made. This says there will be no attempts.

 

[Zman5778]

Pegulas arent in the business of throwing money away.

Excuse me?

Ville Leino? Christian Ehrhoff? How many players have we bought out? How many coaches/GMs have the Pegulas fired???

The Pegulas have ZERO problems spending money. They've proven it time and again.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Pegulas arent in the business of throwing money away. This move would have been made after the attempts were made. This says there will be no attempts.

Why? Other than you want to be negative, how does that make any sense?

How does this prevent them from spending money? Logically, it makes sense to do this beforehand—to prevent getting in a situation where they HAVE to do it—but go ahead?

(Also, the idea that the Pegulas do not want to spend money is far fetched, but I know you won’t think otherwise as dozens have already explained repeatedly why that’s not true).

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

People act like this GM didn’t waste 8 million dollars like a year and a half ago because he was big game hunting when they had no business doing so and the guy said yes.

REALITY CHECK: Getting to the floor with this roster was only going to be easy if they A: mortgaged futures to trade for contracts. B: Took declining players on bad ones. C: managed to get all the top guys at the couple positions they have truly open.

Im begging some of you to get off the ledge and back to reality

Well I'm not on a ledge. By my calculations on Cap Friendly, we'll have this roster at about 50-52 mil -

Skinner - Thompson - Tuch
Asplund - Mittelstadt - Olofsson
Quinn - Cozens - Okposo
Girgensons - Ruotsalainen - Peterka
Krebs, Bjork

Samuelsson - Dahlin
Power - Jokijarju
Bryson - Fitzgerald
?????

?????
UPL

They will need to spend about 10 mil on a starting goalie (no prospects to block with a legit starter), and a D-man (again no other prospects being blocked) to reach the floor. No starting goalie in sight, no 3rd pair RHD in sight to bump Joker, Bryson or Fitz.

That's not hard to me if you want a quality player for a 2-3 year contract. Levi/Portillo won't be ready before then, Laaksonen might not even be a NHLer. They don't need to be dramatic going after a trade for DeBrincat, for ex. They just need to land two decent players in UFA, and if that doesn't happen to the tune of a 10 mil increase, there is plenty of time after that to acquire a bad contract. That should be a last resort because that's the absolute worst use of cap space possible. Why guarantee that move now when you can settle for that later if necessary. Now I'm not shouting this post. I'm not ultra POd about this move, but I think it sends a message that we can expect a lame summer and that ownership/management is going to go the bare minimum route again. Just a little frustrating.

 

[Gras]

Pegulas arent in the business of throwing money away. This move would have been made after the attempts were made. This says there will be no attempts.

You have to strike early before the Yotes acquire all the good contracts.

 

[jc17]

It's the timing though.

Shoot for those couple of UFAs on silly money but short term deals. THEN if you miss - make a move like this to become cap compliant (eg Boychuk). Not now!

I think the problem is if you miss, then you're out-leveraged needing to get to the floor.

While it seems likely more teams would happily unload cap, risking losing the musical chair game is, well, risky.

And while a team could just throw money at a random UFA, I think the reality of that is uglier than most think. Guys get overpaid all the time, but imagine being a guy like Tage who signed for 1.4M when the team had plenty of cap room, just to see them hand out a $6M deal to some scrub because they couldn't manage the cap.

 

[Zman5778]

They will need to spend about 10 mil on a starting goalie (no prospects to block with a legit starter), and a D-man (again no other prospects being blocked) to reach the floor. No starting goalie in sight, no 3rd pair RHD in sight to bump Joker, Bryson or Fitz.

That's not hard to me if you want a quality player for a 2-3 year contract. Levi/Portillo won't be ready before then, Laaksonen might not even be a NHLer. They don't need to be dramatic going after a trade for DeBrincat, for ex. They just need to land two decent players in UFA, and if that doesn't happen to the tune of a 10 mil increase, there is plenty of time after that to acquire a bad contract. That should be a last resort because that's the absolute worst use of cap space possible. Why guarantee that move now when you can settle for that later if necessary. Now I'm not shouting this post. I'm not ultra POd about this move, but I think it sends a message that we can expect a lame summer and that ownership/management is going to go the bare minimum route again. Just a little frustrating.

So we barely eke over the floor.

Now Skinner and/or Okposo gets hurt, and we need to IR him in order to bring up a replacement from Rochester. Now all of a sudden we're back under the floor and need to trade for a contract get back over the floor.

 

[Ehran]

The Pegulas are paying Bishop $3.5M on a $4.9M cap charge. That's not a huge "cash savings" to be honest.

It's not like the Boychuk situation where I think we paid under $1M in actual cash for $6M in salary cap dollars. (obviously the insurance will pay part of it, but still it's a much higher ratio of actual-to-cap dollars than Boychuk)

 

[TehDoak]

Ooof. Another below cap floor team coming up.

 

[Ehran]

So we barely eke over the floor.

Now Skinner and/or Okposo gets hurt, and we need to IR him in order to bring up a replacement from Rochester. Now all of a sudden we're back under the floor and need to trade for a contract get back over the floor.

IR still counts against the salary cap. LTIR does not, but you aren't forced to use LTIR.

Even if Skinner & Okposo are out for the season it doesn't matter salary cap wise.

 

[Zman5778]

IR still counts against the salary cap. LTIR does not, but you aren't forced to use LTIR.

Even if Skinner & Okposo are out for the season it doesn't matter salary cap wise.

Looks like I got my sports confused. Whoops.

 

[TehDoak]

It's a "chicken or egg" argument. I don't mind it now, as it gives KA a sense of "we don't need to get really stupid on free agency".

I don't want to be forced into spending $7/8 million on a guy like Jack Campbell just to hit the floor.

Uhhhh, it's stupid easy to get above the cap floor. You don't have to give out bad contracts, even. This is the team saying 'lol the fans thought we were going to spend above the CBA mandated minimum this year'

 

[Dirty Dog]

Uhhhh, it's stupid easy to get above the cap floor. You don't have to give out bad contracts, even. This is the team saying 'lol the fans thought we were going to spend above the CBA mandated minimum this year'

It’s very very clear for anyone following this team that the majority of our cheap young players will be making up most of the roster. getting rid of these players was never going to happen.

You can disagree with that approach, but that is the approach and has been the approach. Hopefully we add a goalie and 1-2 good vets


Forwards:

Thompson
Mitts
Cozens
Krebs
Cozens
Quinn
Peterka
Olofsson
Okposo
Girgensons
Skinner
Tuch
Asplund

Defense:

Power
Dahlin
Bryson
Samuelsson
Joker


That is 13 forwards and 5 defensemen, where in the world are you all so confident we would spend 10s of millions on bringing in new players as to make this move shocking?

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

So we barely eke over the floor.

Now Skinner and/or Okposo gets hurt, and we need to IR him in order to bring up a replacement from Rochester. Now all of a sudden we're back under the floor and need to trade for a contract get back over the floor.

I understand the problem and risk, but that's exactly how things went this past season. If KA ends up going the route I described (10 mil spent on a goalie and Dman), then I won't be complaining, as the Bishop move might just be to ensure a season long cap floor despite any injuries. It just doesn't hint that way to me.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Well that's it guys. This is the only move Adams is making and it's only June 10th. Way to pack it in for next season and cancel the ESPN+ membership.

Pegulas want a Ottawa, Az to the cap model here. 85 pts 22-23

 

[Fezzy126]

IR still counts against the salary cap. LTIR does not, but you aren't forced to use LTIR.

Even if Skinner & Okposo are out for the season it doesn't matter salary cap wise.

LTIR counts against the cap:

LTIR FAQ - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

What is LTIR?​

When a player has an injury of which they are expected to miss a minimum of 10 NHL games and 24 days in the NHL season, the team can place them on long term injured reserve (LTIR). LTIR can be used to exceed the salary cap. LTIR is a very complicated aspect of the NHL operations and the vast majority of details are not specified in the CBA.

When a player is placed on LTIR, their cap hit remains on the teams cap payroll and it continues to count as it always did. It also does not provide the club with additional cap-space savings that can be banked for future use while the team operates above the salary cap. Instead, LTIR provides relief if the club's averaged club salary, or payroll, begins to exceed the upper limit. The amount of relief that the club receives is calculated on the day the player is placed on LTIR. There are three equations that are used to determine the LTIR relief, the first, the basic equation, can be used during the season and during the off-season. The second, the training-camp equation, can be used on the final day of the off-season in preparation for the first day of the season. The third formula is used when the team already has a player on LTIR.

When a player is deemed fit to play, the team must activate them.