Off-Season Roster Thread #2 -- Nothing to do but wait

[TehDoak]

Your post says that you understand we botched his development, but I don't think you do.
1) He was brought up to the NHL too early
2) Had poor coaching under Kreuger
3) Had to play with poor supporting cast while
4) Suffered a major injury for the first time in his career

You can't possibly understand all of that and then flippantly look at his points and make a conclusion about his long term potential.

Flippantly? I'm going off 5 years of disappointing development and production, including his college time.

You aren't wrong on any of those points, but that stuff happens to most NHL players. Good ones find a way to still produce. At some point, it's time to put up or shut up for these players. Mittelstadt's time was this year....and he scored 19 points in 40 games. Why does he get unending string of opportunities and 2nd chances? His biggest ally is the fact that he's on a team that apparently is willing to punt another season and not invest in improving the team more than the absolute bare minimum, so's likely 'earned' a top 9 forward spot by default.

I think in an ideal world world, he would have spent another full year in the NCAA and two years in the AHL, so he'd still be on his ELC. But, we have to live in the reality that it's his 5th full NHL season this year and he hasn't yet produced anything approaching a scoring level forward in any consistent way. When do we say "It's not going to happen" for the him?

 

[WeDislikeEich]

For me - it's the timing of this move that hurts - not the move itself.

The Boychuk move was necessary at the time - I'm completely fine with that.

But this early in the offseason? Nah... It stinks unless there's a reason to make ir right now (compensation). It tells me they aren't going to be spending anything on actually improving the squad or the on ice product. I like giving the likes of Quinn/JJP their chances. But when so obvious improvements are needed elsewhere (in goal, RHD)... It makes no sense.

This is exactly how I feel. My first thought was “i guess they plan to be a cap floor team again”.

Why make this move now, for a 7th, before free agency even begins? This doesn’t seem like a move you make if you planned on signing any decent free agents. But I hope I’m wrong!

they are $14m under the cap floor still but they still have probably at least $10m in RFA’s alone. So again, I don’t really see the need to make this move right now.

 

[WeDislikeEich]

Marek says Buffalo only talked to 2 players on the day of the 2016 draft- Nylander and Sergachev.
Talk starts at 10:45.

Also state Edmonton was going to take Sergachev until Puljujarvi dropped.

Was Marek saying that Forsberg (Sabres scout) pushed for Sergachev? Or Nylander? It was kind of confusing the way he worded it. I think he was saying forsberg pushed for sergachev right?

 

[Jacob582]

Was Marek saying that Forsberg (Sabres scout) pushed for Sergachev? Or Nylander? It was kind of confusing the way he worded it. I think he was saying forsberg pushed for sergachev right?

No. He pushed for Nylander.

 

[SundherDome]

We could. But then we're throw off the whole UFA market and get some GMs really pissed with us.

There's a reason the NHL has never really seen this done.

Correct, I'm not advocating to do it but it is an option.

This hurts you when you try to re-sign your RFAs. They can say, if X 4th liner who scored 14 points is making 4 million, what am I worth?

Not advocating for it but players are not that dumb. I'm sure their agents will push for it but you could easily work comps and say we had our hands tied so we gave a fringe goalie 4 million

 

[Jacob582]

This is exactly how I feel. My first thought was “i guess they plan to be a cap floor team again”.

Why make this move now, for a 7th, before free agency even begins? This doesn’t seem like a move you make if you planned on signing any decent free agents. But I hope I’m wrong!

they are $14m under the cap floor still but they still have probably at least $10m in RFA’s alone. So again, I don’t really see the need to make this move right now.

This move tells me that they know/have a plan for their team next year and are pretty clear on what's going to happen.

They already know they will need the contract to clear the lower limit.

 

[jc17]

Was Marek saying that Forsberg (Sabres scout) pushed for Sergachev? Or Nylander? It was kind of confusing the way he worded it. I think he was saying forsberg pushed for sergachev right?

It was stated awkwardly but he said:

"Forsberg lobbied for him, and Tim and Anders had drafted Karlsson, Lehner, and Zibanejad, and that's why they went that way for it".

So pretty sure he's saying Forsberg wanted Nylander and since Forsberg had a good track record with Murray in Ottawa, they trusted him.

 

[Diaspora]

I mean we could. You could throw Subban 1 year @ 4 million or Caggiula the same deal. There will be fringe guys looking for a job who like money.

Yeah. Like Taylor Hall last year. Sign me up.

P.K. is worth at most $3M for two years. Not one dollar or one day more.

Don't overpay. It'll f*** things for years.

 

[Diaspora]

When do we say "It's not going to happen" for the him?

Mitts still has more potential than trade value, unfortunately. If he finds his niche as a 40+ point 3C or better, he'll stick around a little longer. Any big injury or big slump this year and he's gone -- probably for peanuts.

 

[zenthusiast]

Dislike. A move like this is available in July if your FA plan doesn’t come off. Disagree with the idea that it’s a security blanket to not spend big in FA either. Inflated one or two year deals for actual NHL players wouldn’t be a backbreaker.

 

[BuffaloGooner]

Most of the discussion in here revolves around regurgitating wanting to go full Tim Murray 2.0 when we should’ve learned from our mistakes

 

[zenthusiast]

Most of the discussion in here revolves around regurgitating wanting to go full Tim Murray 2.0 when we should’ve learned from our mistakes

For me, Murray’s blunders were because he tried to juice up the rebuild before there was a homegrown foundation and leveraged the future to bring in guys with questionable attitudes. I don’t think we’re at that same stage now given the coach, team culture, and relative development level of our guys. At a certain point looking outside to bolster what you’ve already got isn’t just positive, it’s necessary. Whether we’re there yet is certainly debatable

 

[Zach716]

Completely out of left field question and total video game idea-
What stops teams like us who have huge cap space from deals like the following:

Next offseason offer Tage and Cozens 1 year max contract (I think 16.5m?)
Negotiate a 9 (or 8/7/6 whatever) year deal with a handshake agreement that after year 1 the next deal would be an averaged out salary deducting the first year. Would this be considered cap circumvention? I know it's a bizarre scenario but if we have the cap space available while we don't need it, why not "front load" in this fashion to get their 8 year contracts down a significant amount. It's also not my money I'm spending so it's easy for me to say I'm just wondering if there is any precedent for something like this.

I don't see this as pissing off future signings on the team because these guys would still average out the same $$$ at the end of the deal, they're just doing it in an unconventional way.

 

[Jacob582]

Most of the discussion in here revolves around regurgitating wanting to go full Tim Murray 2.0 when we should’ve learned from our mistakes

Not true

 

[SundherDome]

Completely out of left field question and total video game idea-
What stops teams like us who have huge cap space from deals like the following:

Next offseason offer Tage and Cozens 1 year max contract (I think 16.5m?)
Negotiate a 9 (or 8/7/6 whatever) year deal with a handshake agreement that after year 1 the next deal would be an averaged out salary deducting the first year. Would this be considered cap circumvention? I know it's a bizarre scenario but if we have the cap space available while we don't need it, why not "front load" in this fashion to get their 8 year contracts down a significant amount. It's also not my money I'm spending so it's easy for me to say I'm just wondering if there is any precedent for something like this.

I don't see this as pissing off future signings on the team because these guys would still average out the same $$$ at the end of the deal, they're just doing it in an unconventional way.

Because the NHL would veto it.

 

[K8fool]

Yeah. Like Taylor Hall last year. Sign me up.

P.K. is worth at most $3M for two years. Not one dollar or one day more.

Don't overpay. It'll f*** things for years.

Once someone has made a name for themselves not certain I would be interested if the are thirty and above . The only ones that seem to work are role players on the under 3 mil contracts So you are right and KA won't bring in an older vet that is a completely different personality than okposo to take leadership and voice away from the kids that really could make up a playoff team core w heart and some grit . That we already may possess.. Goalie and A Defenseman like Letang that have right personalities to unite the room and force the kids to continue to be the Captain of their own ship.. Cozens Mitts and Thompson may all three step up and fight like mcdavid had to and did for himself in the calgary series against grizzled slower playoff thugs.. I could even see Mitts do this for KA or he wouldn't still be here.

 

[Der Jaeger]

If I were Adams, I’d be dialing up Chicago on Dach and LA on Turcotte. Two young players with potential who had injuries derail their development. Might be but low candidates.

 

[Dirty Dog]

It's more mind boggling that people think he's suddenly going to develop.

Everyone keeps talking about 'down the stretch' last year where he scored 17 points in the last 23 games under Granato. When he was gifted top line ice time and had zero defensive responsibilities. Not to mention he was also shooting at 21% clip, more than double his career average.

Now people are pointing to from March 1 on? It's 16 pts in 28 games. In a year when the scoring was up. It's not impressive production for a top 10 draft pick.

I certainly understand we botched his development. In the end, we are talking about 80 pts in 196 NHL games. That isn't scoring forward level production, not even close. His upside at this point in a secondary scoring forward. And it's probably 50/50 or worse that he gets to that level.

Why trade him? Because he's an unproductive vet (5 NHL seasons at this point) and he's blocking Quinn/Peterka/Krebs/Cozens from quality ice time, something Kevyn said he wouldn't do. He's an overpaid (thanks Kevyn) project player. People need to stop remember the WJCs and look at the player he actually is. He wasn't dominate in college, he wasn't dominant at the AHL. He's not suddenly going to be a great NHL player.

Your inability to understand context is why you’re ant to trade players before they are a known quantity. It’s why you were wrong on Thompson (not that you were wrong that he developed, but that you would have traded him before we knew).

 

[joshjull]

Your inability to understand context is why you’re ant to trade players before they are a known quantity. It’s why you were wrong on Thompson (not that you were wrong that he developed, but that you would have traded him before we knew).

He’s the king of bad faith takes.

 

[SundherDome]

If I were Adams, I’d be dialing up Chicago on Dach and LA on Turcotte. Two young players with potential who had injuries derail their development. Might be but low candidates.

Turcotte may be f***ed

For me, Murray’s blunders were because he tried to juice up the rebuild before there was a homegrown foundation and leveraged the future to bring in guys with questionable attitudes. I don’t think we’re at that same stage now given the coach, team culture, and relative development level of our guys. At a certain point looking outside to bolster what you’ve already got isn’t just positive, it’s necessary. Whether we’re there yet is certainly debatable

Murray built great team but it all fell apart when we didn't get McDavid.

 

[joshjull]

Turcotte may be f***ed


Murray built great team but it all fell apart when we didn't get McDavid.

No he didn’t. He built a dysfunctional mess

 

[Fjordsen]

Chad seems to have said that there is mutual interest between Sabres and Subban.

 

[Buffaloed]

We're currently taking applications from Sabres fans that wish to express outrage over the loss of Dominik Kahun.

 

[Jacob582]

Chad seems to have said that there is mutual interest between Sabres and Subban.

It's a lock!

 

[zenthusiast]

Subban makes too much sense not to happen. Hopefully he doesn't slew-foot as much while he's here.