Blue Jays Discussion: Off-season discussion: Two signings. Rinse, Repeat add 1.

[WillNy29]

Rosenthal said he had a credible source telling him that the Jays got Ohtani. He checked the source and they didn’t confirm.

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Herjavec could have been in on it too. He is a CAA (Ohtani’s agency) client.

starting to look like Hoornstra and Morosi got played and may have essentially destroyed their reputations

 

[phillipmike]

starting to look like Hoornstra and Morosi got played and may have essentially destroyed their reputations

Yup. Ohtani’s camp straight up lied to them for their gain.

 

[WillNy29]

Yup. Ohtani’s camp straight up lied to them for their gain.

pretty distasteful; using teams as leverage is fine but potentially destroying someones career like that is gross

 

[Blitzkrug]

Just the nature of the business. Hoornstra and Morosi were willing to say with certainty which people should have learned from the Judge fiasco last year.

I still prefer how guys like Friedman or McKenzie did it. They would be very, very careful with how they worded their statements. Usually with "i"m hearing this but nothing is confirmed." Enough to get the statement on record but not enough for people to get excited over potentially nothing.

 

[aight]

pretty distasteful; using teams as leverage is fine but potentially destroying someones career like that is gross

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

I weirdly don't feel bummed. I kind of find it funny now. In light of news about the potential shenanigans by Ohtani's camp though I'm going to give Morosi a break. Seems like he got played like a lot of others.

 

[WillNy29]

twitter account that tweeted about the flight first got deactivated lol;

 

[Kurtz]

Rosenthal said he had a credible source telling him that the Jays got Ohtani. He checked the source and they didn’t confirm.

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Herjavec could have been in on it too. He is a CAA (Ohtani’s agency) client.

Interesting reply there. Seems like Ohtani was very interested about the respective farm systems, and Dodgers one is considerably ahead of ours:

 

[klmdg]

pretty distasteful; using teams as leverage is fine but potentially destroying someones career like that is gross

He’s cultivated this image as a class act, but he’s done some shady shit leading up to and right through free agency

He refused to be honest with the Angels as the trade deadline neared, resulting in them moving their 2nd and 3rd ranked prospects for a pitcher they DFA’d a month later in a desperate attempt to please him

He leaked BS which ruined the reputation of numerous people in order to extract every last cent from the only team he was ever going to sign with

He signed with the only team that fell afoul of his super strict negotiation prerequisites

Only a couple of starters in MLB history have been as good as they were after their 2nd TJ, so the odds of him being an ace moving forward are remote

And if the TJ affects his swing at all, we could be looking at a contract that makes Chris Davis' look like the bargain of the century

 

[Gabriel426]

He’s cultivated this image as a class act, but he’s done some shady shit leading up to and right through free agency

He refused to be honest with the Angels as the trade deadline neared, resulting in them moving their 2nd and 3rd ranked prospects for a pitcher they DFA’d a month later in a desperate attempt to please him

He leaked BS which ruined the reputation of numerous people in order to extract every last cent from the only team he was ever going to sign with

He signed with the only team that fell afoul of his super strict negotiation prerequisites

Only a couple of starters in MLB history have been as good as they were after their 2nd TJ, so the odds of him being an ace moving forward are remote

And if the TJ affects his swing at all, we could be looking at a contract that makes Chris Davis' look like the bargain of the century

He did what best for him.
Dodgers could always just say, hey we can’t get higher than the Jays, sign or good luck.
The leaked info to so called insiders, well, all he needs is do one or two exclusive interviews with them and all is forgiven.
As for the Angeles, they had like 6 yrs to build a contender around him and Trout.
Like you said he will be going 2nd TJ surgery, what if he can never truly recover after that, don’t blame him for securing his future with the best deal possible.

 

[mikeyz]

We just had a season where watching the team play was downright painful. On top of that, we had the Moreno trade that will likely haunt us for years. Our ace of the future busted spectacularly. Our franchise 1B played the entire year and poster an fWar of 1 - a big regression after the already big regression the year prior. We had a miserable 2-game playoff after which our Manager and GM seemed to point blame at each-other, with neither getting fired.

Our hopes get massively raised about Soto and Ohtani...only for Soto to end up with our rivals.

To complain that some fans are very negative about all of this at the moment is ridiculous.


There are still plenty of options out there and if Shapkins manage to pivot and deliver something huge, the sentiment will quickly turn around. But at this exact moment, things suck, and pointing that out is pretty rational.

Mods, pin this comment to the top of the thread if it’s possible.

 

[mikeyz]

Interesting reply there. Seems like Ohtani was very interested about the respective farm systems, and Dodgers one is considerably ahead of ours:

Yeah, A 26 year old bartender from Winnipeg has connections to the Blue Jays FO.

If anyone believes that, I have oceanfront property in Arizona to sell you.

 

[Brown Dog]

As crazy as it may sound, yes, absolutely it'd have been a good signing.

To put it in context, Rogers spent $5.2 billion for NHL rights that they've taken an absolute bath on. Ohtani would have cost 20% of that amount and would have made the Rogers enterprise hundreds of millions of dollars over that same amount of time (12 years).

In the aftermath (and heartbreak), Ohtani was essentially a unicorn. This was a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity. Not just getting the player. All that Ohtani would bring is something we have never seen or experienced before, and likely never will.

As disappointing as it is, I can't fault Rogers and Shatkins much, if at all, for this. Many said all season he'd end up with the Dodgers. He did. The team (based on all the reports) offered at least half a billion dollars. That's a lot of coin to commit to an offer. The excitement for that short window of time when it was made he'd be a Jay was some of the most heightened excitement we've ever seen -- even non-Jays fans were buying in.

What sucks now is that the rest of the off-season will consist of, "Well, it's not Ohtani.". It's going to be a letdown whatever happens at this point. But a job has to be done, and hopefully management has been stoking other fires while the Ohtani hoopla was going on. This is still a good team, but has a lot of holes to fill.

I think this is why I'm not that disappointed. The mega-deal the Jays were offering might have been a smart business move, I don't think it was a smart baseball move. And I don't really care about "growing the brand," I just want to see them win ball games.

 

[tmlms13]

Take the 700, give 150 to Ballenger and 300 to Yamamoto and you are actually a better team for less

Honestly I'm kind of glad they let a 70m a year DH go. That would probably be the end of bichette and guerro and every other free agent. Even Rogers has to draw the line somewhere

How much do we complain about the trickle down effect of leafs big 4

 

[tmlms13]

This is the kind of move they need to make, in my opinion. You need to do something to counter the Soto trade from the Yankees. Trading for Trout would do just that. If the Jays are serious about competing, of course.

I think LAA already said they aren't trading him.

I also have serious issues with his health. He's played over 100 games once in his last 4 years. He's like 32 making 35m

No thanks

 

[cyris]

Take the 700, give 150 to Ballenger and 300 to Yamamoto and you are actually a better team for less

Honestly I'm kind of glad they let a 70m a year DH go. That would probably be the end of bichette and guerro and every other free agent. Even Rogers has to draw the line somewhere

How much do we complain about the trickle down effect of leafs big 4

I don’t think Ohtani’s salary would necessarily mean severe cost cutting with the rest of the roster.
He isn’t like anyone else. Selling the teams broadcast rights internationally and the merchandising that comes with him can’t be compared to anyone else. He brings in extra revenue that would really help offset some of his massive salary.

 

[horner]

Take the 700, give 150 to Ballenger and 300 to Yamamoto and you are actually a better team for less

Honestly I'm kind of glad they let a 70m a year DH go. That would probably be the end of bichette and guerro and every other free agent. Even Rogers has to draw the line somewhere

How much do we complain about the trickle down effect of leafs big 4

This yr alone 70 mil for a DH
That's is f***ing crazy, they can sign 3 players

 

[Nineteen67]

Just the nature of the business. Hoornstra and Morosi were willing to say with certainty which people should have learned from the Judge fiasco last year.

I still prefer how guys like Friedman or McKenzie did it. They would be very, very careful with how they worded their statements. Usually with "i"m hearing this but nothing is confirmed." Enough to get the statement on record but not enough for people to get excited over potentially nothing.

That’s called being a responsible journalist.

 

[Ale Brew]

I think LAA already said they aren't trading him.

I also have serious issues with his health. He's played over 100 games once in his last 4 years. He's like 32 making 35m

No thanks

Not only that but he has like 8 years left on that deal.

 

[Puckstuff]

This yr alone 70 mil for a DH
That's is f***ing crazy, they can sign 3 players

It sounds like Ohtani will be getting deferred payments and for some reason even asked for it. One thing to consider in all of this is that a lot of business executives and economists think there will be high amounts of inflation over the next decade and 70 million by the end of this deal could be the equivalent of like 40-45 m in real terms. Still a lot of money... but more reasonable if that plays out.

 

[Puckstuff]

The Cardinals should sign Cody Bellinger to improve their outfield and send us Arenado for Manoah.

The Cardinals get Bellinger and Manoah and they can put Gorman and Edman at 2B and 3B.

The Jays get Arenado, a big bat on reasonable salary in light of the Ohtani deal. And we can sign a 5th starter in FA.

 

[Pink Mist]

He’s cultivated this image as a class act, but he’s done some shady shit leading up to and right through free agency

He refused to be honest with the Angels as the trade deadline neared, resulting in them moving their 2nd and 3rd ranked prospects for a pitcher they DFA’d a month later in a desperate attempt to please him

He leaked BS which ruined the reputation of numerous people in order to extract every last cent from the only team he was ever going to sign with

He signed with the only team that fell afoul of his super strict negotiation prerequisites

Only a couple of starters in MLB history have been as good as they were after their 2nd TJ, so the odds of him being an ace moving forward are remote

And if the TJ affects his swing at all, we could be looking at a contract that makes Chris Davis' look like the bargain of the century

Yep agreed.

I hope Ohtani eats one in the ribs at his first at bat when he visits toronto in April after the way he and his camp played Toronto

 

[Puckstuff]

Yep agreed.

I hope Ohtani eats one in the ribs at his first at bat when he visits toronto in April after the way he and his camp played Toronto

Yup. He clearly played us and cost the Jays opportunites. That’s probably what Ohtani should do to maximize profits, I would do the same. But at the same time I have zero issues with the Jays plunking him for it.

 

[Thornbury]

I don’t think Ohtani’s salary would necessarily mean severe cost cutting with the rest of the roster.
He isn’t like anyone else. Selling the teams broadcast rights internationally and the merchandising that comes with him can’t be compared to anyone else. He brings in extra revenue that would really help offset some of his massive salary.

Not sure MLB would allow the Jays to sell international TV rights. I assume that would be a league property.

Yep agreed.

I hope Ohtani eats one in the ribs at his first at bat when he visits toronto in April after the way he and his camp played Toronto

Why aim that low?

 

[Woodman19]

I think what happened was. Ohtani wanted to go to the Dodgers but had an open mind to go elsewhere, they met and the Dodgers made their offer. The Jays brought him to Dunedin and made an even larger offer than the Dodgers, and Ohtani was probably legitimately interested in coming here. The Dodgers likely would not budge on their initial offer probably not believing anyone would top it.

Fast forward to Friday, CAA decided to leaked the flight to Toronto using one of their other clients (who conveniently said nothing the whole flight and had a post ready to go to refute it once they landed) to spook the Dodgers into believing they weren't bluffing and really had the offer from the Jays and in the drama the Dodgers blinked and upped their offer to $700 million to clinch the deal but would have taken our offer by the end of the weekend if the Dodgers cave in.