Proposal: NYR - SJ again

[CanadienShark]

Walman
Bordeleau

For

Kakko
Jones
Carrick

Walman solidifies the left side, Bordeleau is depth.

Kakko with new talented youngsters might help his game.

The cap works, probably off on value.

I've always liked Kakko, but we'd prefer a right shot RW. I don't love or hate this deal, but honestly we're probably better off just sticking with Walman. Jones and Carrick don't offer any real value to SJ.

 

[Voodoo Glow Skulls]

I've always liked Kakko, but we'd prefer a right shot RW. I don't love or hate this deal, but honestly we're probably better off just sticking with Walman. Jones and Carrick don't offer any real value to SJ.

IMO, Jones and Carrick offer offer depth, that would enable more moves to build.

 

[CanadienShark]

IMO, Jones and Carrick offer offer depth, that would enable more moves to build.

We've got depth, we need quality.

 

[Bizz]

Walman
Bordeleau

For

Kakko
Jones
Carrick

Walman solidifies the left side, Bordeleau is depth.

Kakko with new talented youngsters might help his game.

The cap works, probably off on value.

Kakko is a bust with negative trade value. You'd have to throw in at least two 1sts for that to even be close to worthwhile.

 

[Machinehead]

This feels like swapping similar pieces for the sake of doing a trade.

 

[jonlin]

NYR get:

Granlund 5M UFA 2025

2025 2nd

SJ get:

Kakko 2.4M RFA 2025

Miller 3.872M RFA 2025

NYR get the best player in the deal and an early 2nd. Granlund should be a decent add for their window. SJ get 2 young upcoming players who will fit their rebuild. NYR doesnt have the cap to resign all their guys.

 

[bernmeister]

NYR get:

Granlund 5M UFA 2025

2025 2nd

SJ get:

Kakko 2.4M RFA 2025

Miller 3.872M RFA 2025

NYR get the best player in the deal and an early 2nd. Granlund should be a decent add for their window. SJ get 2 young upcoming players who will fit their rebuild. NYR doesnt have the cap to resign all their guys.

NO value of KK + KAM collectively more and prefer them to Gran
also
after jettisoning Trouba, Lindgren, Vesey this yr and bread before end of next season agrees to waive to avoid ugly scene [he is not sniffing 11.6 again] that IS enuf to resign, even if we do a big # of Shesty, which is not a given

Kakko is needed for when Panarin leaves

 

[jonlin]

Kakko is needed for when Panarin leaves

Kakko is no Panarin. He is more like 1/3 of a Stone.

 

[bernmeister]

Kakko is no Panarin. He is more like 1/3 of a Stone.

You are entirely missing the pt
KK = effective and functional depth on a productive line
we do not have sufficient reserve ready to replace if we recognize
1RW = held for Gabe P
bread is gonna go b'c Rs not paying anywhere near 11.6 for him
we do not have depth w/ready replacements
plus we like what we have

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kakko is a bust with negative trade value. You'd have to throw in at least two 1sts for that to even be close to worthwhile.

Kakko would be like your second best forward.

 

[Savant]

I can see something with Rangers and Walman. Don’t think Bystedt needs to be I be involved here. That’s kind of a weird inclusion

 

[Juxtaposer]

Kakko would be like your second best forward.

Don't be ridiculous, he isn't better than Eklund, Granlund, Toffoli, Zetterlund, or Celebrini. I think you know better than to respond to that poster with something just as silly.

What exactly do any of these trade proposals do for the Sharks? We can't trade Walman without getting a better defenseman in return, as Walman is literally our only D who has an argument to be called top-4. I would have time for Zac Jones if he were coming for a mid-round pick, but we simply cannot downgrade from Walman to him. Trading Bystedt for anything but an equivalent RHD prospect makes absolutely no sense, because he's quite literally the perfect 3C prospect: 6'4", great skater, strong defensively, good pace, great on faceoffs, excellent PKer, and putting up more than a PPG in the AHL as a 20 year old. Othmann is a fine prospect but we have plenty of LW prospects and young players between Eklund, Musty, Bordeleau, Chernyshov, and Gushchin, he really does nothing for us compared to Bystedt.

We're done with the tear-down where you just trade anyone for anything. At this point, the only trades we should be making are either ones that give us meaningful futures (Granlund at the deadline) or legitimate upgrades to the team that don't sacrifice significant future pieces. None of the trades I've seen in this thread do either of those things for us.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

A guy who has played on the first pair of one of the best teams in the league the last five years would be on the Sharks third pair? Highly doubt it.

Left handed defensemen can play on the right side, you know.

It’s what Lindgren is now and moving forward not what he was in previous seasons. He’s not that guy anymore and he wouldn’t add anything of worth to this bad blue line. Hard to see him playing the right side over Ceci and Thompson either. Even if he did, it does what for the Sharks?

 

[bernmeister]

It’s what Lindgren is now and moving forward not what he was in previous seasons. He’s not that guy anymore and he wouldn’t add anything of worth to this bad blue line. Hard to see him playing the right side over Ceci and Thompson either. Even if he did, it does what for the Sharks?

while he shows wear + tear, short term he is useful, generally speaking.
That said, Rs need to go younger for cap so either it is self rental or get something

He can be flipped w/2 lesser picks for 2 better picks

 

[Pinkfloyd]

while he shows wear + tear, short term he is useful, generally speaking.
That said, Rs need to go younger for cap so either it is self rental or get something

He can be flipped w/2 lesser picks for 2 better picks

Maybe but playing defense for the Sharks right now is not going to help a rental’s trade value. We don’t have a retention slot and guys who are declining and expensive don’t have much trade value. We’d literally only take him off your hands in a trade that provides us real future value.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Don't be ridiculous, he isn't better than Eklund, Granlund, Toffoli, Zetterlund, or Celebrini. I think you know better than to respond to that poster with something just as silly.

What exactly do any of these trade proposals do for the Sharks? We can't trade Walman without getting a better defenseman in return, as Walman is literally our only D who has an argument to be called top-4. I would have time for Zac Jones if he were coming for a mid-round pick, but we simply cannot downgrade from Walman to him. Trading Bystedt for anything but an equivalent RHD prospect makes absolutely no sense, because he's quite literally the perfect 3C prospect: 6'4", great skater, strong defensively, good pace, great on faceoffs, excellent PKer, and putting up more than a PPG in the AHL as a 20 year old. Othmann is a fine prospect but we have plenty of LW prospects and young players between Eklund, Musty, Bordeleau, Chernyshov, and Gushchin, he really does nothing for us compared to Bystedt.

We're done with the tear-down where you just trade anyone for anything. At this point, the only trades we should be making are either ones that give us meaningful futures (Granlund at the deadline) or legitimate upgrades to the team that don't sacrifice significant future pieces. None of the trades I've seen in this thread do either of those things for us.

Kakko is not a bad player. Just because he’s been a disappointment shouldn’t get that twisted that he’s some total bust that’ll be out of the league in a year or two.

He has 6 points in 8 games from the third line so far this season, and gets virtually no special teams time. He’s a very responsible defensive player, yearly puts up good analytics, and has already scored 40 points in a season in this league.

It’s what Lindgren is now and moving forward not what he was in previous seasons. He’s not that guy anymore and he wouldn’t add anything of worth to this bad blue line. Hard to see him playing the right side over Ceci and Thompson either. Even if he did, it does what for the Sharks?

Actually, that’s not true.

Rangers fans have radicalized radicalized about Lindgren and it’s probably one of our stupider fan narratives in years.

He literally had one bad season. He’s 26. His body of work in this league is pretty good, and shouldn’t have to be defended against one down season.

 

[bernmeister]

Maybe but playing defense for the Sharks right now is not going to help a rental’s trade value. We don’t have a retention slot and guys who are declining and expensive don’t have much trade value. We’d literally only take him off your hands in a trade that provides us real future value.

sorry I don't understand

I give you X = a commodity + 2 lesser picks
you give me back 2 better picks

that is what Lindy's value is, IMO

in this case, instead, he is being discounted and sent w/other futures

but YOU, [SJ] can flip lindy a la the bold
he's worth that as a rental

2 better picks for 2 lesser picks, I would argue, on its face, is real value

if you get a better offer you should take it
if multiple smaller pieces are enuf, you may wish to consider it

gotta work on the election
peace out

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Actually, that’s not true.

Rangers fans have radicalized radicalized about Lindgren and it’s probably one of our stupider fan narratives in years.

He literally had one bad season. He’s 26. His body of work in this league is pretty good, and shouldn’t have to be defended against one down season.

Even if I give you all that, he’s still a second pairing blue liner on an expiring contract that is making a lot that the Sharks can’t retain on. To another contending team, he’s likely playing a similar tweener role of being a third pairing guy that can play the second pairing in spurts. This sort of player is just not going to look good on the Sharks for any length of time. Whatever you think he’s worth, he’s likely worth less by the time the Sharks would rent him elsewhere.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

sorry I don't understand

I give you X = a commodity + 2 lesser picks
you give me back 2 better picks

that is what Lindy's value is, IMO

in this case, instead, he is being discounted and sent w/other futures

but YOU, [SJ] can flip lindy a la the bold
he's worth that as a rental

2 better picks for 2 lesser picks, I would argue, on its face, is real value

if you get a better offer you should take it
if multiple smaller pieces are enuf, you may wish to consider it

gotta work on the election
peace out

The Sharks have no interest in a short term commodity that we’d have to give up better picks to get when that commodity wouldn’t return those picks lost when we rent him out. Lindgren is a cap dump to the Sharks. Nothing more.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

50/50, We just have to dangle Trouba and Lindgren in front of Grier, talk a good word salad on intangibles, leadership, winning culture and we’ll come away with Walman and Bystedt.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Kakko is not a bad player. Just because he’s been a disappointment shouldn’t get that twisted that he’s some total bust that’ll be out of the league in a year or two.

He has 6 points in 8 games from the third line so far this season, and gets virtually no special teams time. He’s a very responsible defensive player, yearly puts up good analytics, and has already scored 40 points in a season in this league.

I didn't say Kakko was a bust. I said he wouldn't be the Sharks' 2nd best forward. Learn to read.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Even if I give you all that, he’s still a second pairing blue liner on an expiring contract that is making a lot that the Sharks can’t retain on. To another contending team, he’s likely playing a similar tweener role of being a third pairing guy that can play the second pairing in spurts. This sort of player is just not going to look good on the Sharks for any length of time. Whatever you think he’s worth, he’s likely worth less by the time the Sharks would rent him elsewhere.

I don't want to trade him, for what it's worth. I'm perfectly okay with him in our top 4. He's not the reason why we haven't won the Cup yet. My only issue is I wouldn't give a big pay rise to him, but if he takes around what he's making now on a long term deal I'd re-sign him.

I didn't say Kakko was a bust. I said he wouldn't be the Sharks' 2nd best forward. Learn to read.

Learn to not be so rude. I didn't say you said that he's a bust, but he's often treated with little respect by everyone.

The Sharks do not have that many good forwards. You named a bunch of guys that are totally unproven or 2nd/3rd liners on good teams. And that's what Kakko is too. I don't see how he's a tier below those players in what he currently is as an NHL player.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I don't want to trade him, for what it's worth. I'm perfectly okay with him in our top 4. He's not the reason why we haven't won the Cup yet. My only issue is I wouldn't give a big pay rise to him, but if he takes around what he's making now on a long term deal I'd re-sign him.


Learn to not be so rude. I didn't say you said that he's a bust, but he's often treated with little respect by everyone.

The Sharks do not have that many good forwards. You named a bunch of guys that are totally unproven or 2nd/3rd liners on good teams. And that's what Kakko is too. I don't see how he's a tier below those players in what he currently is as an NHL player.

Then you don’t need a guy like Walman which is fair enough for what the Rangers have. I wouldn’t think it would make sense for that team to trade for him if nobody is really being moved out in the process.

 

[weastern bias]

50/50, We just have to dangle Trouba and Lindgren in front of Grier, talk a good word salad on intangibles, leadership, winning culture and we’ll come away with Walman and Bystedt.

Point to literally any single trade Mike Grier has made where he sent out valuable prospects/desired roster players and got nothing but a cap dump in return

I'll wait. . .

 

[Juxtaposer]

Learn to not be so rude. I didn't say you said that he's a bust, but he's often treated with little respect by everyone.

The Sharks do not have that many good forwards. You named a bunch of guys that are totally unproven or 2nd/3rd liners on good teams. And that's what Kakko is too. I don't at all see how he's a tier below those players in what he currently is as an NHL player.

Granlund and Toffoli are established 1st liners putting up a point per game on a horrific team. William Eklund might not have eye-popping stats, but watch a single Sharks game and you'll see how much more talented he is than Kakko. Zetterlund is coming off a 24 goal season and is just about the perfect F1. And Macklin Celebrini cleared them all in his very first NHL game ever at age 18.

Meanwhile, Kakko has three points in 7 games that weren't against the garbage fire that is the Montreal Canadiens while playing for one of the best teams in the NHL. He's a perfectly fine third liner to have, but you don't have to make ridiculous claims just to counter some troll calling him a bust specifically to get under your skin.