Proposal: NYR-Ducks

[Idlerlee]

I remember a thread where multiple fans argued he was top 10-top 15ish, and some said he was top 5.

Im assuming they were ducks fans because lindholm isnt even close to being in that tier. nothing against him, but like Rielly he needs to continue to progress.

if the rangers wanted lindholm, the package would need to include
Zuccarello, JT miller and Buchnevich

Would you like McDonagh and Stepan at 90% retained as well?

Thats as ridiculous as the OP

 

[mytduxfan*]

I remember a thread where multiple fans argued he was top 10-top 15ish, and some said he was top 5.

Im assuming they were ducks fans because lindholm isnt even close to being in that tier. nothing against him, but like Rielly he needs to continue to progress.

if the rangers wanted lindholm, the package would need to include
Zuccarello, JT miller and Buchnevich

Pass. We'll be keeping Lindholm.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Not comparable at all. Nash is a 1st line winger that averages over 30 goals a year and is due for a bounce back year. Kesler at this point is a 2nd line center at best.

Oh and McDonagh is definitely better than Lindholm. McDonagh is a proven #1 top-10 defender, Lindholm has potential but isn't at that point.

McDonagh isn't a top 10 D-man. In fact, based on those numbers your fan base loves to use to discredit Fowler, Lindholm > McDonagh.

 

[Not So Mighty]

I remember a thread where multiple fans argued he was top 10-top 15ish, and some said he was top 5.

Im assuming they were ducks fans because lindholm isnt even close to being in that tier. nothing against him, but like Rielly he needs to continue to progress.

if the rangers wanted lindholm, the package would need to include
Zuccarello, JT miller and Buchnevich

Regardless, any claims that Lindholm is a current Top 5 in the league are outlandish and clearly wrong to the educated fan. It's unnecessary for you to bring those fans up in other threads unprovoked. You're just stirring the pot.

 

[Vipers31]

Oh and McDonagh is definitely better than Lindholm. McDonagh is a proven #1 top-10 defender, Lindholm has potential but isn't at that point.

It has been two full seasons since McDonagh played remotely like a top-10 defender. The past couple of seasons, McDonagh hasn't had all that much on him, if anything.

the season before the 42 goal one he only had 39 pts though..
he is getting paid like a 30-40g, 65-75pt scorer and he has only done that once in the last 3 years

Welcome to the latest CBA and 2016, where those numbers tend to cost you $8-10M.

I remember a thread where multiple fans argued he was top 10-top 15ish, and some said he was top 5.

If you do remember that, feel free to point us that way with a link, because I would genuinely like to see which Ducks fans said so. That kind of thing has never remotely come up on the Ducks board, so I'm curious.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

For the Rangers to acquire Lindholm:

To NYR:
Lindholm
Bieksa

To Anaheim:
Nash @50% retained
Klein
JT Miller

 

[mytduxfan*]

For the Rangers to acquire Lindholm:

To NYR:
Lindholm
Bieksa

To Anaheim:
Nash @50% retained
Klein
JT Miller

Pass. NYR doesn't have the assets to acquire Lindholm.

 

[xxreact9]

Not comparable at all. Nash is a 1st line winger that averages over 30 goals a year and is due for a bounce back year. Kesler at this point is a 2nd line center at best.

Oh and McDonagh is definitely better than Lindholm. McDonagh is a proven #1 top-10 defender, Lindholm has potential but isn't at that point.

No matter which way you phrase it, Ryan Kesler is a better hockey player than Rick Nash right now. All 30 coaches in the league would take Kesler over Nash in a heartbeat. A 2nd line C "at best"? ... No. That is at absolute worst. He just scored 53 points while being deployed in an extremely defensive role and seeing virtually 0 time on the top PP. All this while being acknowledged as a top-3 defensive forward in the NHL as a Selke nominee. Bring in how much of an agitator he is on a nightly basis, how much effort and passion he pours into the game each day, this guy is a model of what hockey players should be.

Yes McDonagh is better right now but its not by much. Given the potential and cost control of the asset, Lindholm is very certainly worth more. McDonagh has 3 years left, Lindholm has a lot more until even reaching RFA and will in all likelihood become a better player.

 

[xxreact9]

McDonagh isn't a top 10 D-man. In fact, based on those numbers your fan base loves to use to discredit Fowler, Lindholm > McDonagh.

This is the best circular logic of all! By using the exact same metrics to prove Fowler is "bad", Lindholm vaults into the top-10, maybe top-5 category in the league. However, fans quickly dismiss that result while openly accepting the Fowler one.

Using stats out of context is one thing, but using them selectively at your own will is even worse.

 

[RangerGuru]

This is the best circular logic of all! By using the exact same metrics to prove Fowler is "bad", Lindholm vaults into the top-10, maybe top-5 category in the league. However, fans quickly dismiss that result while openly accepting the Fowler one.

Using stats out of context is one thing, but using them selectively at your own will is even worse.

So then what are you saying? You are accepting Lindholm>McD and that Fowler is a poor defenseman? Or saying neither is true?

Many Ranger fans have said Fowler is a solid Dman but simply does not fill a need for the team, so there is no need to spend quality young assets to acquire him.

 

[DieByTheShield]

Rick Nash (50%) retained + Lindberg + 2018 Rangers 2nd rounder for Lindholm. Maybe another late pick from the Rangers.

Yeah in Anaheim where center depth behind Getzlaf is scarce.

There's a lot of teams in which he would play 3rd line center.

I'd trade McDonagh+ for Lindholm without thinking twice. Guy is already among the best in the league.

On behalf of all Ranger fans, I apologize. These outlandish statements do not accurately represent and portray the sentiments of our fanbase.

 

[mytduxfan*]

So then what are you saying? You are accepting Lindholm>McD and that Fowler is a poor defenseman? Or saying neither is true?

Errr... neither is true. Isn't that obvious? McD is a proven #1D, whilst Lindholm has only shown glimpses of it. At the same time, Fowler is a top pairing D-man that is heavily relied upon to do the job of a #1D, whilst only being a #2D, and with bad partners.

However, we're just going on the numbers because we're "stat watchers". Problem?

Many Ranger fans have said Fowler is a solid Dman but simply does not fill a need for the team, so there is no need to spend quality young assets to acquire him.

Some have said that and I would agree, but others have simply judged Fowler based on his adv. stats. If you're going to judge Fowler based solely on his adv. stats, then let's do the same with Lindholm and McD. I suspect most of those saying they'd trade McD for Lindholm are doing just that because, if you actually watch both players, it's pretty obvious that McD is the better player right now.

 

[DieByTheShield]

It has been two full seasons since McDonagh played remotely like a top-10 defender. The past couple of seasons, McDonagh hasn't had all that much on him, if anything.

Apparently you have never heard of Dan Girardi.

 

[Liferleafer]

For the Rangers to acquire Lindholm:

To NYR:
Lindholm
Bieksa

To Anaheim:
Nash @50% retained
Klein
JT Miller

I still think i pass if i'm a Ducks fan. You just don't trade young Dmen like Lindholm....especially un a deal centered around Nash. Even though Rangers fans may not admit it...there is no guarantee that the Nash of last season isn't what you will be getting.

 

[Off Sides]

Oh this thread again

 

[bernmeister]

ATLANTIC

Florida: Not playing ahead of Barkov or Bjugstad.
Tampa: Stamkos and Johnson.
Boston: Bergeron, Krejci, Backes and Bruins fans would even say Spooner after the season he had.
Ottawa: Brassard and Turris.
Buffalo: Eichel and ROR.
Montreal: Galchenyuk and Plekanec. (Kesler more suited for 3rd line)

METRO

Rangers: Stepan and Zibanejad.
Isles: Possible, but with Nielsen gone Strome will get 2nd line minutes.
Pittsburgh: Sid and Geno.
Philly: Giroux and Schenn.
Washington: Backstrom and Kuznetsov.

CENTRAL

Dallas: Seguin/Benn and Spezza.
Chicago: Toews and Panarin.
St. Louis: Stastny and Lehtera (him, Tarasenko and Schwartz have been one of the best lines in the NHL the past 2 seasons)
Nashville: Johansen and Ribeiro. (Kesler more suited for 3rd line)
Colorado: Duchene and MacKinnon.
Minnesota: Koivu and Granlund. (Kesler more suited for 3rd line role)

PACIFIC

LA: Kopitar and Carter.
SJ: Couture and Thornton.
Edmonton: McJesus and Draisaitl.
Calgary: Monahan, Backlund/Bennett. (Kesler more suited for 3rd line role)

I just listed 20 teams that either definitely would or there would be some real tough decisions to make.

Think about that before you laugh like a fool.

AA again kickin it.
one other factor: Kesler has a LOT of mileage due to his courageous play. We see what wear and tear has done for Girardi. At this stage, legit to factor reasonable discount in Kesler value

I'd trade McDonagh+ for Lindholm without thinking twice. Guy is already among the best in the league.

Whoever proposed McDonagh on a top 5 D-Man contract in the league + for Hampus,
I respectfully do not concur. Lindholm's offense may come along in a more steady manner, but defensively, don't think many can hold Mactruck's jockstrap.

I remember a thread where multiple fans argued he was top 10-top 15ish, and some said he was top 5.

Im assuming they were ducks fans because lindholm isnt even close to being in that tier. nothing against him, but like Rielly he needs to continue to progress.

if the rangers wanted lindholm, the package would need to include
Zuccarello, JT miller and Buchnevich

Would you like McDonagh and Stepan at 90% retained as well?

Thats as ridiculous as the OP

Yeah, that's not the deal for McD.


If Rangers go that way, then

McD and NY 3rd
for
Trouba RFA rights + 'peg 2nd

then Trouba to Ducks
for
Theodore, Montour + Manson

Ducks get an established 1RD guy, RFA, young, off his ELC, they juggle a piece or 2 and sign him long term
Rangers get 3 guys, 2 ELCs who are exempt from expansion draft, not established, but a good bet.
Ducks consolidate. Rangers add depth, but specific pieces so they are not effd by the draft.

Having
Skjei/Graves/Theodore as your 3LD with Holden in reserve sends a message to Staal; we can't move you, but increasingly, your gonna sit. Sure, marc is still fine at second or third pair, but eventually with reduced time going forward down the road, he will be more inclined to waive. If that happens later this year, that could mean moving an NMC.

I consider that fair, but we can be generous w/small add correct prospect

 

[WhatTheDuck]

How about a deal centered around Montour+ and Miller?

 

[lindholmie]

theodore montour and manson lmao dont want larsson thrown in too?

 

[TopShelfWaterBottle]

AA again kickin it.
one other factor: Kesler has a LOT of mileage due to his courageous play. We see what wear and tear has done for Girardi. At this stage, legit to factor reasonable discount in Kesler value










Yeah, that's not the deal for McD.


If Rangers go that way, then

McD and NY 3rd
for
Trouba RFA rights + 'peg 2nd

then Trouba to Ducks
for
Theodore, Montour + Manson

Ducks get an established 1RD guy, RFA, young, off his ELC, they juggle a piece or 2 and sign him long term
Rangers get 3 guys, 2 ELCs who are exempt from expansion draft, not established, but a good bet.
Ducks consolidate. Rangers add depth, but specific pieces so they are not effd by the draft.

Having
Skjei/Graves/Theodore as your 3LD with Holden in reserve sends a message to Staal; we can't move you, but increasingly, your gonna sit. Sure, marc is still fine at second or third pair, but eventually with reduced time going forward down the road, he will be more inclined to waive. If that happens later this year, that could mean moving an NMC.

I consider that fair, but we can be generous w/small add correct prospect

You realize ducks are a budget team that just shipped out three up and coming potential top 3/4 dmen in this trade? Lol that's not how budget teams work or any team for that matter

 

[Static]

You realize ducks are a budget team that just shipped out three up and coming potential top 3/4 dmen in this trade? Lol that's not how budget teams work or any team for that matter

Don't tap on the glass.

 

[Dijock94]

I still think i pass if i'm a Ducks fan. You just don't trade young Dmen like Lindholm....especially un a deal centered around Nash. Even though Rangers fans may not admit it...there is no guarantee that the Nash of last season isn't what you will be getting.

I would argue JT Miller has more value on the market than Nash, so in my opinion Miller is the centerpiece of that trade. Which I would never make as a Ranger fan. Not bashing the deal just feel like you don't move players like Miller, just like you don't move players like Lindholm

 

[Theridion]

Yeah in Anaheim where center depth behind Getzlaf is scarce.

There's a lot of teams in which he would play 3rd line center.

Kesler was a beast last year. He has 2 fairly incompetent wingers (at least in terms of burying the puck).

I'd take Kesler over a lot of flashy, high point totaling centers in this league.

 

[mytduxfan*]

I would argue JT Miller has more value on the market than Nash, so in my opinion Miller is the centerpiece of that trade. Which I would never make as a Ranger fan. Not bashing the deal just feel like you don't move players like Miller, just like you don't move players like Lindholm

You're overvaluing Miller. He's a good player, but he's not a future franchise player like Lindholm. IMO, Rakell and Miller are at a similar level. I'd move Rakell if the deal was right and I'd certainly move Rakell for a future elite talent.

 

[bernmeister]

You realize ducks are a budget team that just shipped out three up and coming potential top 3/4 dmen in this trade? Lol that's not how budget teams work or any team for that matter

I realize.
You have to give to get
you would be securing a top 10 guy in Trouba at RFA, meaning you lock him up long term to save. Let's say he's discounted 6per for 7 length. do that deal, but first year 4.5 last year 7.5. An ELC is just under 1 x 3 = a bit less than 3. Against 4.5. that is not a huge amount to cover. move one unessential body and there you have it.

Yes, I realize these are 2 ELCs. If they were not, I would be demanding more for Trouba.

However, I am not surprised.
We can not agree that ballpark Zuc is fair value for Vatanen.

Don't tap on the glass.

Oh, but how will you ever learn with an apparently closed mind?

 

[RangerGuru]

You're overvaluing Miller. He's a good player, but he's not a future franchise player like Lindholm. IMO, Rakell and Miller are at a similar level. I'd move Rakell if the deal was right and I'd certainly move Rakell for a future elite talent.

As would the Rangers and Miller, however as for value in a vacuum, I think the Rangers would be thrilled to get a player back of Miller's caliber and potential in exchange for Nash if they were to move him