Proposal: NYR-Ducks

[Dijock94]

sorry to inform you but not every teams assets are crap as compared to the rangers

The Rangers assets are crap? Back that up for me.

 

[KaseMeOutside]

The Rangers assets are crap? Back that up for me.

did you see who I was quoting? do I need to explain?

 

[Irishguy42]

The max you can retain is 50%.
But it doesn't matter, no way Anaheim makes that deal.

He meant Nash at 30% retained, so he's at 70% of his contract. We aren't that dumb.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

These NYR-ANA trade threads never end well.

The guy Anaheim wants to move is Cam Fowler, for pretty practical reasons (organizational depth, expansion draft protection, etc.).

New York simply doesn't have room for him, unless Marc Staal is dealt to another team first, which I wouldn't be holding my breath for.

Nash just doesn't seem to have the value that myself or other NYR fans think he does. It's understandable. The guy is coming off an injury-plagued, snake-bitten season.

I don't see any basis for a deal between these two teams that doesn't involve one of these players, neither of which the opposing fan base wants.

Anaheim is better off finding a partner who's thin on the left side of their D, and NYR is better off waiting to see if Nash can bounce back, rather than taking pennies on the dollar for a guy who's a top winger when healthy.

 

[Dijock94]

These NYR-ANA trade threads never end well.

The guy Anaheim wants to move is Cam Fowler, for pretty practical reasons (organizational depth, expansion draft protection, etc.).

New York simply doesn't have room for him, unless Marc Staal is dealt to another team first, which I wouldn't be holding my breath for.

Nash just doesn't seem to have the value that myself or other NYR fans think he does. It's understandable. The guy is coming off an injury-plagued, snake-bitten season.

I don't see any basis for a deal between these two teams that doesn't involve one of these players, neither of which the opposing fan base wants.

Anaheim is better off finding a partner who's thin on the left side of their D, and NYR is better off waiting to see if Nash can bounce back, rather than taking pennies on the dollar for a guy who's a top winger when healthy.

This is exactly it.

 

[mytduxfan*]

These NYR-ANA trade threads never end well.

The guy Anaheim wants to move is Cam Fowler, for pretty practical reasons (organizational depth, expansion draft protection, etc.).

New York simply doesn't have room for him, unless Marc Staal is dealt to another team first, which I wouldn't be holding my breath for.

Nash just doesn't seem to have the value that myself or other NYR fans think he does. It's understandable. The guy is coming off an injury-plagued, snake-bitten season.

I don't see any basis for a deal between these two teams that doesn't involve one of these players, neither of which the opposing fan base wants.

Anaheim is better off finding a partner who's thin on the left side of their D, and NYR is better off waiting to see if Nash can bounce back, rather than taking pennies on the dollar for a guy who's a top winger when healthy.

Agreed, but, even if Nash does bounce back, he still won't have the value you think, especially given he'll be 1 year away from UFA.

 

[Trapper]

Agreed, but, even if Nash does bounce back, he still won't have the value you think, especially given he'll be 1 year away from UFA.

Nash seems to be a 1 year on, 1 year off player now.
The question is, which Nash are you getting and which Nash are you getting come contract time?
Also, as he ages when does the 1 year on, 1 year off start to become more off? Maybe it doesn't but you have to consider that, assets given and the cap hit.

 

[Lindberg Cheese]

Agreed, but, even if Nash does bounce back, he still won't have the value you think, especially given he'll be 1 year away from UFA.

Then NYR keep him and resign him to an Eric Staal type deal......

 

[mytduxfan*]

Then NYR keep him and resign him to an Eric Staal type deal......

You really think he's signing that deal? I don't. Even at the risk of getting less, he'll test the market if that's all that NYR is offering.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Agreed, but, even if Nash does bounce back, he still won't have the value you think, especially given he'll be 1 year away from UFA.

Andrew Ladd returned a 1st and top prospect on an expiring deal. Nash is a better player. Nash, as a deadline acquisition, at 50% retention will return more, if he's healthy. Probably less than what we paid for Yandle, but definitely in that vein.

 

[mytduxfan*]

Andrew Ladd returned a 1st and top prospect on an expiring deal. Nash is a better player. Nash, as a deadline acquisition, at 50% retention will return more, if he's healthy. Probably less than what we paid for Yandle, but definitely in that vein.

Sure, you'll get a late 1st + some struggling prospect and maybe something else for him, but you're not getting Lindholm, Vatanen or Manson. That's the value you've put on him now and he's not worth it and he never will be, even with a bounce back year. I never said he was worthless, I'm just saying that moving Nash isn't going to catapult the NYR ahead so that they can knock 1-2 years off an inevitable rebuild.

 

[Spazkat]

Andrew Ladd returned a 1st and top prospect on an expiring deal. Nash is a better player. Nash, as a deadline acquisition, at 50% retention will return more, if he's healthy. Probably less than what we paid for Yandle, but definitely in that vein.

Ladd's primary value is that is was an expiring deal. You're making it sound as if the fact that Nash still has a full year left at 8M is a bonus and not a deterrent for a deadline purchase. That's kind of the whole point of a rental. You "rent them" and aren't stuck with the cap hit afterward.

 

[Beer League Sniper]

Ladd's primary value is that is was an expiring deal. You're making it sound as if the fact that Nash still has a full year left at 8M is a bonus and not a deterrent for a deadline purchase. That's kind of the whole point of a rental. You "rent them" and aren't stuck with the cap hit afterward.

In the post you quoted, I clearly wrote Nash at 50%. A healthy Nash at a cap hit of $3.9M is an insane steal.

Again, I've been very clear about all of this being contingent on Nash being healthy and returning to form.

Either way, it makes no sense for NYR to dump Nash for nothing. He's still a useful player, and his shot-based metrics are still elite. Last season was a huge outlier for him as far as S% goes, and he was injured. I expect his production to regress back towards his mean.

I really am ok with letting Nash play out his contract if no team wants to give back good value. The only reason to get rid of him is that he's going to be at least 35 by the time NYR is ready to compete again, and he could possibly return some assets that, age-wise, match our next window better.

 

[Sojourn]

Andrew Ladd returned a 1st and top prospect on an expiring deal. Nash is a better player. Nash, as a deadline acquisition, at 50% retention will return more, if he's healthy. Probably less than what we paid for Yandle, but definitely in that vein.

I think you're underestimating the impact a contract has on trade value these days. Nash wouldn't be a rental. He couldn't be one yet.

As a player, Nash would be more valuable. As a player, on an $8m contract? Not so much. If Nash isn't playing up to his contract, his value starts to drop. When he's making $8m and scoring 15 goals and 36 points? His value drops like a stone. GM's don't want to invest a significant chunk of their salary cap on a player who they can't count on to earn it.

Whatever the reasons for his struggles, the team trading for him would be taking on a significant risk. You aren't going to get a great return on him, based on his current value. The bottom line is that while Nash is the better player, his value is going to be less than Ladd if New York isn't retaining.

 

[mytduxfan*]

In the post you quoted, I clearly wrote Nash at 50%. A healthy Nash at a cap hit of $3.9M is an insane steal.

Again, I've been very clear about all of this being contingent on Nash being healthy and returning to form.

Either way, it makes no sense for NYR to dump Nash for nothing. He's still a useful player, and his shot-based metrics are still elite. Last season was a huge outlier for him as far as S% goes, and he was injured. I expect his production to regress back towards his mean.

I really am ok with letting Nash play out his contract if no team wants to give back good value. The only reason to get rid of him is that he's going to be at least 35 by the time NYR is ready to compete again, and he could possibly return some assets that, age-wise, match our next window better.

This is another thing, will NYR be in a position to move him. You're not a top flight contender any more (not a criticism, neither are ANA IMO), but you're not so bad that you shouldn't be in the playoff mix. Surely the NYR will want to keep Nash for the playoffs, especially if he has a bounce back year, no?

 

[Beer League Sniper]

This is another thing, will NYR be in a position to move him. You're not a top flight contender any more (not a criticism, neither are ANA IMO), but you're not so bad that you shouldn't be in the playoff mix. Surely the NYR will want to keep Nash for the playoffs, especially if he has a bounce back year, no?

I expect us to be a bubble team. I think management realizes we're not going to truly compete with our current roster. They wouldn't have moved Brassard if we're in win now mode.

I think last year was our final kick at the can with that roster. Even if we're in the mix for a playoff spot, I don't expect Jeff Gorton to do anything stupid. He's more than once stressed the need for us to stop trading away picks and start stockpiling young talent. It's also been leaked that management isn't going to make deals just to make deals, and they're not going to sell assets (like Nash) for pennies on the dollar.

No one even knew about the Brassard deal until it happened. It made sense for the team, when looked at through the lens of a retool. Brassard is 29 in September. He's going to be on the wrong side of 30 when the team is ready to compete again. Zuccarello, Nash, Klein, Staal, and Girardi are all either older than 30 right now, or will soon be. It wouldn't surprise me to see any of them moved over the next couple seasons, for the right price (in Girardi's case, the right price is any price).

 

[bernmeister]

sorry to inform you but not every teams assets are crap as compared to the rangers

The Rangers assets are crap? Back that up for me.

did you see who I was quoting? do I need to explain?

Attempt to deride is fail.
I called out consistent overvaluation of some of your guys who are high end, but high end Skjei level, not high end Hanifin level.
That is not derision of your club/its players
it is an effort to see if more accurate, honest assessment can be had.