Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[Sammy Kat]

I'll be the 1st in line; I absolutely hate marner's contract followed by matthews and tavares

I hate all 4 so spread out my hate evenly at 15% each.
The other 40% of hate is for the clown who gave those contracts and was run out of town and now resides in Pittsburgh.

 

[KPower]

And Willie is in the driver seat in these negotiations.

Not easy to trade a pending UFA that’s wants $10+ million per year.

 

[kb]

The fans are the very foundation of what makes the Toronto Maple Leafs the Toronto Maple Leafs. Without them, in whatever disgruntled, paying form they come in, whatever opinion they have, the Leafs would be just another random franchise in a moderately uncool sport.

If said fandom gives them no joy whatsoever, no matter what moves happen....what is the point? Find something that brings you joy.

At the end of the day, people are cheering for nothing more than logos and laundry.

And Willie is in the driver seat in these negotiations.

Not easy to trade a pending UFA that’s wants $10+ million per year.

Timo Meier says hi. His QO was $10 million.

 

[socko]

Let's not feel too bad for Willy though. He got paid for 6 years at $7 and he really only gave us 5 of those years.

The holdout year was:
1/3 Holdout
1/3 Getting In Shape
1/3 Lazy Play

And for that he got a full years salary of $7 from Kyle Dubas. So you could say he owed the team one.

 

[ACC1224]

Yes, Shanahan met with Naz’s parents due to repeated disciplinary issues, run ins with coaches and ultimately showing up late for meetings/practices. Shanahan publicly stated Naz had to grow up. To some degree he did, but not enough. It was the culmination of both internal and external discipline issues that saw him traded. So, it’s unlikely Shanahan would have him back.

https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/brendan-shanahan-leafs-send-shot-across-bow-of-nazem-kadri-torontos-roster-to-effect-culture-change

Shanahan: Nazem Kadri will sit two more games – Sportsnet.ca

www.sportsnet.ca

I’m sure they’ve all gotten past that by now.

 

[ULF_55]

Maurice Richard - Goals
Art Ross - Points
? - Assists

As Belak used to say:
Goals - 2 points
Assists - 1 point

 

[smitty10]

Which is all fine and dandy, but I am not sure how many teams will value Nylander at 10 AAV and give Nylander 80% to 90% in signing bonuses front loaded at that (basically a buyout proof contract); and a chance to play with the talent he gets to play with on the Leafs.

I really doubt Nylander is valued at 10 AAV around the league.

He probably is valued around $10m. We're very spoiled with our riches of talent. Might even be a bit desensitized to it.

With that being said, you're 100% right that he won't get the chance to play with a Matthews or Tavares every night.

 

[AuraSphere]

He should realistically be getting what PLD got - 8.5 x 8~ or 9x6~

10M is kinda nuts but at the same time - when you pay Marner/Matthews more than that and you perform better than both - I can see why he wants it lol

 

[KPower]

He should realistically be getting what PLD got - 8.5 x 8~ or 9x6~

10M is kinda nuts but at the same time - when you pay Marner/Matthews more than that and you perform better than both - I can see why he wants it lol

Exactly

Willie should get 8.5x8
Mitch 10x8
Auston 12x8

That’s market value but Dubas f***ed that up.

 

[Gary Nylund]

If Willie can get $10M next summer he should do it. The club can't afford that so its academic. If he has a slightly off year, gets hurt or other clubs are not enamored with him then he doesn't get close to $10M. And who determines what is overpaid? If Willie isn't overpaid at $10M then AM certainly isn't at $13M. One of them is an all star and potential MVP candidate and one will never be either. A healthy Matthews would start a bidding war that only McDavid would exceed. That is exactly the sort of player that can set the market. I don't believe Nylander is worth $10M but I think he may think that so, is "only" taking $9.5 his discount? And does he believe AM is not worth $13? Does he think AM is somehow his comp? We don't what would satisfy him and I don't think its for him or Gross to be steering other players salaries unless Willie's number is starting with an 8..

I will be interested in what AM's number comes in because I think it will be about as team friendly as Willie's. I don't believe any of the three would go out of their way to help the club because Willie looks at Mitch and Mitch looks at Matthews and Matthews is probably still looking at McDavid. I would love to be wrong but I expect all three will squeeze just like last time.

I think Willies take less concession is not below $9.5 and if that's the case he should not be worrying about what the other two are going to get.

Not sure why you quoted me or what this lengthy ramble has to do with my post.

The problem is you are always negotiating with a player based on what they can do when healthy. You can suggest that 34's history shows he will deal with injuries and drops in performance in the future at least as much in the past. His agent will waive the MVP flag in front of you and insist that is what you are buying, or they will walk, and some yob GM will pay him as though he is just as durable as Ovechkin. Matthews value is based on his Hart and Rocket Trophies and because he will realistically have a good shot at being #2 in both next year. The fact that Willie is as good as an injured Matthews doesn't track. Pasta couldn't demand $15M based on how badly he crushed AM this year either.

It seems like everybody outside of Toronto uses McDavid as the limit and constructs their deals relative to his. But Matthews agent thinks he is McDavid and the other Leafs figure all they have to do is meet or exceed AM in an area and they can somehow start using him as a comp. Gaudreau had 9 more points than 34 in his MVP year and Tkachuk was only 2 back yet they signed for $9.75 and $9.5 respectively. That's the real context for what Nylanders career year is worth. WN is still not a top 10 player in the league and 50-50 as to whether he ever matches this season.

Now if Matthews wants to give Willie the money that's great but I don't see him doing anything like that. The extra million will have to come from the remaining contracts of the bottom 6 as it has every year.

So what's your point? Are you saying his agent dictates the terms and we should give Matthews whatever he asks for?

 

[BertCorbeau]

He should realistically be getting what PLD got - 8.5 x 8~ or 9x6~

10M is kinda nuts but at the same time - when you pay Marner/Matthews more than that and you perform better than both - I can see why he wants it lol

Nylander's outproduce PLD by a fair bit ... it's Nylander minimum value but not his fair market value either. $10 is too much. $9-9.5 seems reasonable based on what Meier got.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Goals are not worth any meaningful amount more than primary assists. Even with linemate quality, competition quality, ice time, PP time, etc. considered, there is absolutely zero way for Nylander to argue that he is equal to or even particularly close to Marner offensively.

Purely offensively, I agree - Nylander is not equal, but better than Marner.

Defensively it's a different story.

Overall, Mitch is probably worth $1M more.

 

[tuckerintensity]

I see the new 10.5 rumor as such:

if Willy is seeking 10.5 AAV approx the max he could get from other teams in the UFA market is 7 year deal

10.5 x 7 = 73.5M with other teams with probability of not as lucrative in terms of signing bonuses and front loading the contract
OR
9.2 x 8 = Approx 73.5M with the leafs at max with front loaded signing bonuses.

I really don't think anyone will pay Nylander more than 9.5 a max AAV on the 7 year deal in the UFA market

9.5x7= 66.5M approx

66.5M on 8 year term comes to about 8.32 AAV which can be handsomely front loaded with signing bonuses.

I think Willy is overvaluing himself with 10.5, I really do not think anyone in the league would pay him 10.5 or even 10. Desperate team would pay at max about 9.5 AAV for a total of 66.5M IMO

Hopefully Treliving is doing some similar math with a take it or leave it scenario

Sign and trade nets him eight years anyway (if he's even asking for eight years).

There’s no overreaction. I just don’t like the constant whataboutism and upward spiral of undeserving overpayments based on flimsy in-house precedents by a kid GM who couldn’t figure out if he was a boss or a friend.

We’re not even talking about a team friendly deal as a starting point for Nylander. It’s market rate vs a massive overpay. And as much as I eyeroll at Matthews’ rumoured ask… The guy has a Hart, Lindsay, Calder, 2x Rockets.

Willie’s claim to fame is had a “big playoffs” with a whopping 4 goals. He was also the guy who coughed up the puck at 2-1 vs Florida in Game 2 at center ice that set in motion the collapse in round 2. FFS read the room.

Says he's not overreacting proceeds blames one play in game two for a series loss.

Insert a circumvention of the profanity filter and stomping my feet here.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Timo Meier says hi. His QO was $10 million.

Exactly. Not sure why people think that Nyanders ask when negotiations begin is the final number that he won't budge from.

He probably is valued around $10m. We're very spoiled with our riches of talent. Might even be a bit desensitized to it.

With that being said, you're 100% right that he won't get the chance to play with a Matthews or Tavares every night.

I don't think he's valued quite that high ATM. Give it another year though, and he might be based on his UFA status, depending on what the cap is going to be in 2024-25, what it's expected to be in the years after that and of course how he plays next season. But if he plays as well next season as he did the last two and the cap goes up as expected then I think there would be more than one team willing to pay him 10+ next summer.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Says he's not overreacting proceeds blames one play in game two for a series loss.

Insert a circumvention of the profanity filter and stomping my feet here.

I'll see that one play by Nylander and raise him Marner's disgustingly piss poor play from beginning to end in game 3. Actually never mind raise, I'm pushing all in baby!

 

[notDatsyuk]

He probably is valued around $10m. We're very spoiled with our riches of talent. Might even be a bit desensitized to it.

With that being said, you're 100% right that he won't get the chance to play with a Matthews or Tavares every night.

He didn't play with Matthews every night, and not having to play with Tavares is probably a bonus, at least in his eyes.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Purely offensively, I agree - Nylander is not equal, but better than Marner.

Defensively it's a different story.

Overall, Mitch is probably worth $1M more.

Good points on Marner's defense. Marner was 3rd in Selke voting and plays big minutes on the PK. That's the big difference between the two and why they're not equal in value.

Feels like Nylander's camp and Matthews' camp at in a game of chicken right now about who's going to accept an offer first, with the Leafs bargaining in the middle.

I get Nylander's position but it's frustrating nonetheless. At the same time Matthews' could show some f***ing leadership and humility by taking a bit less to help encourage his teammate to sign. Imagine being the guy who aggressively got a bit more causing one of their core team members to get traded.

 

[Stephen]

If said fandom gives them no joy whatsoever, no matter what moves happen....what is the point? Find something that brings you joy.

At the end of the day, people are cheering for nothing more than logos and laundry.

That’s not how fandom works especially when you get to traditional, long suffering legacy franchises.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Purely offensively, I agree - Nylander is not equal, but better than Marner.

Defensively it's a different story.

Overall, Mitch is probably worth $1M more.

Hard to compare their defense for me when Nylander’s offense is so much safer. He doesn’t get cute at the blue line and make moves while stationary, he either skates the puck or moves quickly it to a safe target.

If Marner does great on a back check that only needed to happen because he got cute in the offensive zone, is that a plus or a minus for him defensively? It’s like defensemen that rack up huge hits + blocked shots numbers because they get hemmed in since they can’t break the puck out.

 

[kb]

That’s not how fandom works especially when you get to traditional, long suffering legacy franchises.

If being a fan doesn't bring you any joy, why do it? I don't care for the excuses.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

This is one of those deals where I don't see 9 x 8 as much of a discount. It's a fair deal for him. They're not robbing or insulting him with that type of offer.

I find 10+ absurd as that's a ridiculous ask. He's not even remotely close to that level on any team and it would be an immediate overpayment whether someone else or the Leafs do it.

 

[TorontoTrades]

The fact that so many are saying trade him after that statement is surprising.. that's the right mentality to and buying in to the team. It's a direct message to Matthews with that statement and I don't blame him. If Matthews wants a million more than anyone in the league then who's to tell Nylander he shouldn't go for every single dollar.

 

[BLONG7]

yes, just like most teams, they will re-sign players who have not won, and some will make more money than their previous contract.

Free agency would be a lot more fun if 100's of players switched teams every year, but it seems unrealistic.

Curious if the fans all think they deserve more than they currently make?
Seems a stretch eh...

 

[ToDavid]

Tell Willy you’ll give him his $10m a year but he has to pay the team back the $7m they wasted on him in the first year of his last contract. $73m over 8 years, $9.125maav.

 

[cyris]

The fact that so many are saying trade him after that statement is surprising.. that's the right mentality to and buying in to the team. It's a direct message to Matthews with that statement and I don't blame him. If Matthews wants a million more than anyone in the league then who's to tell Nylander he shouldn't go for every single dollar.

In the end we can’t pay 4 guys double digits. Tavares is going no where. Marner is just a better player and they aren’t going to trade Matthews.
If Nylander wants to sign a deal that works for the team I’d love to have him back. But no matter how fair it is it has to be less then those other guys.