Rumor: Nylander like Matthews unextended. Nothing to see here.

[ULF_55]

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MJ on Nylander: ‘If he’s going to go 8 years, I’ll give him $9.25, 9.5’​

Bryan Hayes and Frankie Corrado are joined by TSN Hockey analyst Mike Johnson to discuss why he would be willing to give William Nylander $9-plus million on a 8-year deal if he were negotiating with Nylander’s camp.​

 

[BLONG7]

So, if the Core 4 made 40M for the past few years, and did not get it done, they now are all wanting to make more money, and the Leafs are going to just hand them all more money because they accomplished what?
Seems like a real great crew of guys?
Just trade one of them, and then you have a chance to revamp your D?

 

[nuck]

We're not and Willie doesn't actually think they will. Nor do I think Treliving actually thinks Willie will sign for 8.

The disconnect is the overreaction to anything Willie is rumoured to have said like it's something it's not.

Well, it's apparently also that you think any of those three are currently overpaid. They aren't. Willie has actually been ridiculous value at less than 7.

His hold out season he had 27 points. He last 2 seasons were high value but I wouldn't say that negates the first year no show. Pastrnak would be ridiculous value.

It has nothing to do with money being infinite, that's nothing but a pointless strawman. Willie can probably get 10 million next summer and if M&M are both going to try to get every penny they can and not give up even a little bit in order to help the team win, what's the motivation for Willie to take less to stay here?

If Willie can get $10M next summer he should do it. The club can't afford that so its academic. If he has a slightly off year, gets hurt or other clubs are not enamored with him then he doesn't get close to $10M. And who determines what is overpaid? If Willie isn't overpaid at $10M then AM certainly isn't at $13M. One of them is an all star and potential MVP candidate and one will never be either. A healthy Matthews would start a bidding war that only McDavid would exceed. That is exactly the sort of player that can set the market. I don't believe Nylander is worth $10M but I think he may think that so, is "only" taking $9.5 his discount? And does he believe AM is not worth $13? Does he think AM is somehow his comp? We don't what would satisfy him and I don't think its for him or Gross to be steering other players salaries unless Willie's number is starting with an 8..

I will be interested in what AM's number comes in because I think it will be about as team friendly as Willie's. I don't believe any of the three would go out of their way to help the club because Willie looks at Mitch and Mitch looks at Matthews and Matthews is probably still looking at McDavid. I would love to be wrong but I expect all three will squeeze just like last time.

I think Willies take less concession is not below $9.5 and if that's the case he should not be worrying about what the other two are going to get.

 

[PromisedLand]

Kadri won’t be a Leaf with Shanahan around. You’d think most regular posters would know that by now.

wohh something happened between Naz and Shanahan? I honestly don't know what happened between them

 

[Sammy Kat]

Which is all fine and dandy, but I am not sure how many teams will value Nylander at 10 AAV and give Nylander 80% to 90% in signing bonuses front loaded at that (basically a buyout proof contract); and a chance to play with the talent he gets to play with on the Leafs.

I really doubt Nylander is valued at 10 AAV around the league.

There are always teams out there that like a player even at that cap number.

The thing is how many are there out there and what will they give up in a deal over waiting until FA.

I have a Hawks fan friend that is teasing me with Willy stays and gone for nothing to play with Bedard next year and he is fine with 10 for 7.
I was thinking he may be right about a Bedard/Willy line exciting the fans long term so if talks go sideways maybe we can ask for something so they can get the 8th year.

 

[ULF_55]

His hold out season he had 27 points. He last 2 seasons were high value but I wouldn't say that negates the first year no show. Pastrnak would be ridiculous value.

This year he scored 40 same as Matthews, and had more points than Matthews.

Sure he played 82 games, so that's better than missing games.

So maybe take 2.5mm from Matthews and give it to Nylander.

Sure Matthews has won awards but that doesn't negate this year.

 

[PromisedLand]

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MJ on Nylander: ‘If he’s going to go 8 years, I’ll give him $9.25, 9.5’​

Bryan Hayes and Frankie Corrado are joined by TSN Hockey analyst Mike Johnson to discuss why he would be willing to give William Nylander $9-plus million on a 8-year deal if he were negotiating with Nylander’s camp.​

in the UFA market where Nylander can only sign 7 yr deal at max

9.25 x 7 = 64.75 million total
9.5 x 7 = 66.5 million total

if we do the same amount with 8 year AAV as Leafs we get
64.75/8 = 8.1 AAV (approx)
66.5/8 = 8.32 AAV (approx)

Leafs can front load that contract with 80% to 90% in singing bonuses not many other teams in the league can do that. it is basically a buyout proof contract too.

Basically we are matching what Nylander could get on the market in total vallue and front loading the contract.

The ball is Nylander's court as far as I am concerned. I don't care what the cap% is; I want Treliving to approach the contracts with competition in mind in terms of "what could they get in the open market in total value"

 

[PromisedLand]

There are always teams out there that like a player even at that cap number.

The thing is how many are there out there and what will they give up in a deal over waiting until FA.

I have a Hawks fan friend that is teasing me with Willy stays and gone for nothing to play with Bedard next year and he is fine with 10 for 7.
I was thinking he may be right about a Bedard/Willy line exciting the fans long term so if talks go sideways maybe we can ask for something so they can get the 8th year.

very well if hawks do 70 million in total for 7 years; it is about 8.8 AAV for 8 years with the Leafs same total 70 million dollars.

Then the choice is Willy's whether he wants that total 70 million dollars playing for the Leafs or the Hawks




Most of the guys here are underestimating the 80% to 90% of total earnings in signing bonuses. It all but guarantees that Nylander will not suffer the same fate financially as Matt Duchene. AND he gets most of the money up front, with a front loaded contract. If hawks can also do it then good for them I guess.

Then we should be working out a trade with the Hawks lol

 

[socko]

His hold out season he had 27 points. He last 2 seasons were high value but I wouldn't say that negates the first year no show. Pastrnak would be ridiculous value.

Yep, his 27 point holdout season where he carried a cap hit of $10.2 million. Also known by it's movie name, 2019 - The Year Dubas Caved Like a B****. Willy didn't do any favors for anyone on contracts, he was a hard negotiator then and he will likely be today. But his game did improve a ton which did ultimately make his deal a team friendly deal. It was greatly surpassed by the Marner deal though. I have still never seen anything quite like that. I was sure it was a typo at the time.

 

[Fogelhund]

wohh something happened between Naz and Shanahan? I honestly don't know what happened between them

Yes, Shanahan met with Naz’s parents due to repeated disciplinary issues, run ins with coaches and ultimately showing up late for meetings/practices. Shanahan publicly stated Naz had to grow up. To some degree he did, but not enough. It was the culmination of both internal and external discipline issues that saw him traded. So, it’s unlikely Shanahan would have him back.

https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/brendan-shanahan-leafs-send-shot-across-bow-of-nazem-kadri-torontos-roster-to-effect-culture-change

Shanahan: Nazem Kadri will sit two more games – Sportsnet.ca

www.sportsnet.ca

 

[notDatsyuk]

Marner is going to get at a minimum Panarins contract. At a projects salary cap of 92mm when he is up, it amounts to 13.1mm. The team discount is the differential of Marners skill to Panarin.
That's the way it works.

In which case why isn't Nylander, with 11 more goals and only 5 fewer points, despite averaging a full minute less ice time and not on the top line, also entitled to over $11M?

 

[PromisedLand]

Yes, Shanahan met with Naz’s parents due to repeated disciplinary issues, run ins with coaches and ultimately showing up late for meetings/practices. Shanahan publicly stated Naz had to grow up. To some degree he did, but not enough. It was the culmination of both internal and external discipline issues that saw him traded. So, it’s unlikely Shanahan would have him back.

https://thehockeynews.com/.amp/news/brendan-shanahan-leafs-send-shot-across-bow-of-nazem-kadri-torontos-roster-to-effect-culture-change

Shanahan: Nazem Kadri will sit two more games – Sportsnet.ca

www.sportsnet.ca

I completely forgot about this. But this was before he signed his deal with the leafs if am not mistaken.

Oh well... "first impressions" are usually really hard to wash off so if Shanny has his mind made up then I can see that

 

[Drytoast]

Here in Toronto, we pay players top dollar BEFORE they accomplish anything

 

[Bravid Nonahan]

Honestly, just pay Matthews, Marner and Nylander. Once Tavares' contract is off the books you will still have 3 elite forwards in their prime years. The cap situation seems much worse because of the Tavares contract. Just imagine if Dubas did not sign that - even though I like JT. In 2 years, Tavares contract is gone, and you will have Willy at age 29, AM and Mitch at age 28. If I'm Treliving I have a 3 year outlook. I look at a "core 3" forwards. You get AM and Nylander signed, even if you have to overpay a bit. Both signed to at least 4 year deals. You hope to win in the near term but in reality you're banking for 3/4 years down the road. Is that a long time? Yes. I'm willing to wait. Just don't give up players that it took years and years of pain in order to acquire, because it will take years and years of pain in order to acquire players like AM, MM and WN again.

 

[Sammy Kat]

This year he scored 40 same as Matthews, and had more points than Matthews.

Sure he played 82 games, so that's better than missing games.

So maybe take 2.5mm from Matthews and give it to Nylander.

Sure Matthews has won awards but that doesn't negate this year.

You can't use just one year as an example to get a contract and you can't just use goals/points.
I know that is an agent tactic but it will not work on a good GM.

If it was cherry picking years Matthews trots out his 60/100 and says that is me not last year and so we are negotiating just based on that.

Everything has to be involved from at least 3 seasons for any player.
Goals/pts/PP/PK/ice time and late game lead protection and then all those analytics that are out there.

I have no desire to go that deep on players but I am sure out there somewhere is a total stats freak that has spreadsheets all over the place that would provide some kind of numbers that come up with salary projections based on that ton of things.

 

[ULF_55]

very well if hawks do 70 million in total for 7 years; it is about 8.8 AAV for 8 years with the Leafs same total 70 million dollars.

Then the choice is Willy's whether he wants that total 70 million dollars playing for the Leafs or the Hawks




Most of the guys here are underestimating the 80% to 90% of total earnings in signing bonuses. It all but guarantees that Nylander will not suffer the same fate financially as Matt Duchene. AND he gets most of the money up front, with a front loaded contract. If hawks can also do it then good for them I guess.

Then we should be working out a trade with the Hawks lol

Think you could get Bedard with an extended Matthews?

 

[notDatsyuk]

I am going to use some names just to show a sample of what an ex NHLPA guy said but these names were not the real guys as I don't know the real names but you will get the idea.

Kerfoot,Accardi and Lafferty are at a meeting,they are pounding the table saying next CBA needs to be fixed,we are getting screwed.

McD,Matthews and Mackinnon walk in and say,We are the stars,we are the face of the NHL,we are the engines that make the teams go and we are what fans pay to see,we want more.

Which players do you think the NHLPA are going to make happy/

If the NHLPA really wanted to keep the stars happy, maybe they should insist on the game being played by the rules, so the stars can stay healthy and also show why they are stars.

 

[Sypher04]

It would have been done by now, I guarantee he is squeezing the Leafs for max. dollars.

That’s simply not true. Huge assumption that isn’t supported by the timing most players actually sign extensions. MacKinnon didn’t even sign his extension until almost their training camp

The team is flawed as salaries are constructed, it was Dubas downfall from the start to overpay these RFAs. It won't get better. Nylander will be the odd man out when it should have been Marner. All three made out like bandits regardless.

Lot of opinions there, no facts.

it is what it is. People can say "hey, what kind of fan are you?". Follow the team for 40 years of futility and you will understand lol. I was on the old Leaf forum in 2005.

Most of us here have been watching for a while. Your 40 years doesn’t really mean anything over say my 25. I don’t need to suffer another 15 years to suddenly understand. That said, I don’t throw the “what kind of fan are you” crap around personally. That being said, I do think it’s a legitimate question why some people here are watching and spending so much time here when they are miserable about seemingly every little thing. I’ll stop watching long before I allow myself to become that person.

The fanboy days are over replaced with direct logic and straght talk. Sorry, this team isn't wnning a Cup. in fact, I see they are ranked 4th best odds to wn, anyone k now if a book has a "rest of the field.option".(any team but the Leafs)? I dont care if it is -4000, there wouod be great value there.

Saying this team isn’t winning a cup is again not a fact. It’s the likely outcome, and not just for us but all teams. The field is always the smart bet.

If the Leafs are going to win they obviously have to make changes, but those changes don’t have to be the ones you think they should be. Having contradictory opinions isn’t fanboyism, nor is the people spouting the same rhetoric one believes in necessarily logic. There is no clear blueprint to winning.

 

[ULF_55]

You can't use just one year as an example to get a contract and you can't just use goals/points.
I know that is an agent tactic but it will not work on a good GM.

I was responding to a post referencing "just one year."

So either you can reference "just one year" or you can't.

 

[Pengu]

Can't wait for next summer when Marner demands 12-13 million AAV...

 

[Sammy Kat]

very well if hawks do 70 million in total for 7 years; it is about 8.8 AAV for 8 years with the Leafs same total 70 million dollars.

Then the choice is Willy's whether he wants that total 70 million dollars playing for the Leafs or the Hawks




Most of the guys here are underestimating the 80% to 90% of total earnings in signing bonuses. It all but guarantees that Nylander will not suffer the same fate financially as Matt Duchene. AND he gets most of the money up front, with a front loaded contract. If hawks can also do it then good for them I guess.

Then we should be working out a trade with the Hawks lol

The Hawks are a team with 10m contract experience and now how to tamper proof contracts thanks to Kane and Toews.
My bud was right when he says they know all about big contracts and 2 star types leading the way and then filling out the rest bit by bit.
He was very logical and it does make a ton os sense and they do have a ton of cap.

 

[ULF_55]

Can't wait for next summer when Marner demands 12-13 million AAV...

He's gonna demand the same as Matthews, so if it's a max of $13mm that would be good.

 

[PromisedLand]

Think you could get Bedard with an extended Matthews?

I'd be all for it

I am not sure hawks will value Matthews the same way MLSE is in comparison to Bedard.

For Hawks Bedard is a cost controlled asset, Matthews is expensive asset, with injury history

At least, if I was hawks that is how I'd view this

 

[socko]

In which case why isn't Nylander, with 11 more goals and only 5 fewer points, despite averaging a full minute less ice time and not on the top line, also entitled to over $11M?

I believe Willy can justifiably claim to be Marner's equal offensively, the clear discrepancy is defensive play. Is that a 4 million gap? That would be a hell no from me.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I believe Willy can justifiably claim to be Marner's equal offensively, the clear discrepancy is defensive play.

There is no justifiable way for Nylander to argue that he is equal to Marner offensively lol.