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Nylander - In round 2 doing his thing.

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What do we do with Nylander?

  • Re-sign

  • Trade

  • Let walk

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Stephen said:
Yeah I think Nylander has the raw skill to be a Top 15 player in the league as well and it's frustrating as hell that he can't piece it all together... But you also have to remember he's not paid that way and we have 4 guys who earn more money than he does.

When things are firing on all cylinders, it means we have a guy waiting in the weeds who can give a Top 15 player knockout punch. That's Phil Kessel in Pittsburgh behind Crosby, Malkin and Letang territory.

You know why we have such a big problem with Nylander? It's largely because of John Tavares. To put it lightly, Tavares isn't an $11 million impact forward under any circumstances. So when the team pays them both a combined salary of $18 million and rolls them out on a line together, you're basically running a duo that averages $9 million in salary each. That's outside of Nylander's pay grade so you naturally demand more and more for him to compensate.

Put it another way. If our Big 4 was something like Matthews, Draisaitl, Marner and Nylander no one would have nearly the same issue with Willie, flaws and all.

What you re-sign Nylander for is an entirely different question. If he's coming in at around $8 million, it's still okay. But if he's inching towards Matthew Tkachuk money at $9.5 million then that's kind of a problem.
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If he was that consistent force on both sides of the puck then the leafs wouldn't have him or one of the others because he'd be payed far more . He's a tier below mathews / marner as a complete player but has game breaking skills .
Up to the coach to insulate him and get the best out of him . On good nights he's a force . Last game Keefe recognized he was on and put him out with the top line . Actually myself I like the 3 of them together but ones going to be playing their off wing .
 
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studebaker17 said:
If he was that consistent force on both sides of the puck then the leafs wouldn't have him or one of the others because he'd be payed far more . He's a tier below mathews / marner as a complete player but has game breaking skills .
Up to the coach to insulate him and get the best out of him . On good nights he's a force . Last game Keefe recognized he was on and put him out with the top line . Actually myself I like the 3 of them together but ones going to be playing their off wing .
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Yeah exactly.

He's kind of the faulty secret weapon, if that makes sense. Unique and impactful when used properly, but can cause some headaches if not.
 
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Nylander's game fell off a cliff when his two Swedish buddies were traded. That makes me question his maturity.
 
55 Years of Futility said:
Nylander's game fell off a cliff when his two Swedish buddies were traded. That makes me question his maturity.
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If players are treated as disposable assets why treat employers as anything more than a paycheck?

If you have been in the workforce long enough you know the only thing that matters are shareholders and personal gain.

Fans are just wallets.
 
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ULF_55 said:
If players are treated as disposable assets why treat employers as anything more than a paycheck?

If you have been in the workforce long enough you know the only thing that matters are shareholders and personal gain.

Fans are just wallets.
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That's contradictory to the performance and effort level though.

There's no pay in the playoffs, all there is to strive for is personal recognition and future financial gain.

During the regular season, I don't really care if someone is out there for a paycheque only.

I just don't want anything to do with them in the playoffs then.
 
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pcruz said:
That's contradictory to the performance and effort level though.

There's no pay in the playoffs, all there is to strive for is personal recognition and future financial gain.

During the regular season, I don't really care if someone is out there for a paycheque only.

I just don't want anything to do with them in the playoffs then.
Click to expand...

Well the good thing is you don't have anything to do with them do you?
 
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ULF_55 said:
Didn't watch the game ...

From everything I've read and seen one player showed he has another gear.

Nylander was by far the best player on the ice according to many reports.

Nylander showed he has that other gear.

How does the team he plays for engage that gear?

Is there a coach that help in that regard?
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Willy is the be(a)st in high gear.

Maybe the way to use that gear is to NOT play him with the slowest skater on the team (Simmonds and the goalies excepted).
 
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pcruz said:
That's contradictory to the performance and effort level though.

There's no pay in the playoffs, all there is to strive for is personal recognition and future financial gain.

During the regular season, I don't really care if someone is out there for a paycheque only.

I just don't want anything to do with them in the playoffs then.
Click to expand...

Thank heavens for small mercies.
 
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ULF_55 said:
It's almost like he'll let others do the heavy lifting, as he's 5th. on the hierarchy.
He's treated like a middle 6 player, so plays like a middle 6 player.
At the 12 minute mark of the 2nd. period, perhaps he realized the "stars" of the team weren't going to do it.
Kind of like at the World's when he's expected to help lead Sweden, he does. He isn't just another depth player there. He's not treated as a depth player, so he lives up to expectations.

I think he'll do better on his next team.
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It was about the twelve minute mark of the second that Keefe finally took Tavares away and started giving him players who could keep up.
 
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pcruz said:
Here's my thing with Nylander:

I see the potential there to be a genuine top 15-20 player in the NHL.
I see the reality of him being a secondary, or tertiary player on every team in the NHL.

Those 2 realities don't line up and the difference between his potential and what he's done is all self-inflicted.

In terms of these playoffs, Nylander has been one of the worst performers in terms of the little things that 3rd and 4th line players usually contribute (hits, blocked shots, etc).

So, we tend to expect that to counter balance that lack of defensive effort, the player will make up for his shortcomings in the offensive zone, right?

In terms of those offensive stats, one player stands out as our best player.
Interestingly, he's also one of the top players in doing the dirty work as well.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Name[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]Pts[/TD]
[TD]Chances For[/TD]
[TD]Scoring Chances For[/TD]
[TD]High Danger Chances For[/TD]
[TD]Shots[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Matthews[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[TD]50[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tavares[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]43[/TD]
[TD]35[/TD]
[TD]24[/TD]
[TD]30[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nylander[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]17[/TD]
[TD]36[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]O'Reilly[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]27[/TD]
[TD]21[/TD]
[TD]11[/TD]
[TD]19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Marner[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]12[/TD]
[TD]53[/TD]
[TD]18[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Rielly[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]37[/TD]
[TD]14[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]16[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


What this tells us is that Nylander is in fact the 4th overall offensive contributor offensively.
He's just about dead last in doing the little things.

He doesn't kill penalties or take face-offs.

This also illustrates that Matthews is by a country mile the best and most important player on this team.

It's not even remotely questionable how much better he is as a 200 foot player, than anyone else.
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Matthews has 22.6 chances for per 60.
Nylander has 22.8 chances for per 60.

And that's not even taking into consideration that Matthews gets virtually double the PP time.

What it illustrates by a country mile is that Willy deserves more ice time.
 
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Jamason said:
Matthews has 22.6 chances for per 60.
Nylander has 22.8 chances for per 60.

And that's not even taking into consideration that Matthews gets virtually double the PP time.

What it illustrates by a country mile is that Willy deserves more ice time.
Click to expand...

That doesn't illustrate what you think it does.

Matthews plays defensively sound hockey, hits, blocks shots, and takes draws.
And he creates as many chances as Nylander does, who doesn't do any of those other things.


Maybe you're happy with a 1 dimensional player being outperformed in his specialty by another player who does just about everything else at a level near the top of the team or at the top.
 
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55 Years of Futility said:
Nylander's game fell off a cliff when his two Swedish buddies were traded. That makes me question his maturity.
Click to expand...
It fell of a cliff when he was put with Tavares. Their styles drain each other, because they seldom synk. It makes Nylander to have to do everything himself. Not a concept of success a full game on a line.

And being snakebitten and overthinking every decision aint lazyness. It is a lack in belive in yourself. It is not the same as not working hard because u dont feel like it.
His way out of it is doing the small things right get the flow under his feet going and ultimate go most on instinct. But it is easy said, harder to do, especialy with a slow player on his side.

I question other top players maturety way before Nylanders. He never answered media like Samsonov or Marner. Or had off ice stuff like Matthews.
 
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pcruz said:
That doesn't illustrate what you think it does.

Matthews plays defensively sound hockey, hits, blocks shots, and takes draws.
And he creates as many chances as Nylander does, who doesn't do any of those other things.


Maybe you're happy with a 1 dimensional player being outperformed in his specialty by another player who does just about everything else at a level near the top of the team or at the top.
Click to expand...
Not only does it illustrate that, but it also illustrates how you will use a statistic without context to try to support your bias.
 


I can see a few guys doing this in 15 or 20 years.

ZEBROA said:
It fell of a cliff when he was put with Tavares. Their styles drain each other, because they seldom synk. It makes Nylander to have to do everything himself. Not a concept of success a full game on a line.

And being snakebitten and overthinking every decision aint lazyness. It is a lack in belive in yourself. It is not the same as not working hard because u dont feel like it.
His way out of it is doing the small things right get the flow under his feet going and ultimate go most on instinct. But it is easy said, harder to do, especialy with a slow player on his side.

I question other top players maturety way before Nylanders. He never answered media like Samsonov or Marner. Or had off ice stuff like Matthews.
Click to expand...


Backchecking and stopping the skating movements 20+ feet in front of your net, watching the guy (who you were even with at the other blue line) get a great scoring chance.

That's lazy.

I honestly don't believe some Leafs fans understand that hockey isn't all about scoring goals and making pretty plays.

Playoff hockey is usually won in the trenches with goals reminiscent of pinball.
Stanley Cups are won via black eyes and other injuries.

You get those by putting your body on the line to block that next shot.
 
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pcruz said:
That doesn't illustrate what you think it does.

Matthews plays defensively sound hockey, hits, blocks shots, and takes draws.
And he creates as many chances as Nylander does, who doesn't do any of those other things.


Maybe you're happy with a 1 dimensional player being outperformed in his specialty by another player who does just about everything else at a level near the top of the team or at the top.
Click to expand...
Matthews should not create as many chances as Nylander he should create near double and be defensively sound. In beast mode the are whole different beasts, and should be.

Nylander is expected to find beast mode on his own with playdraining Tavares. Matthews cant get to beast mode (according to some) playing with Nylander because he drags him down. So we are fully happy that one top player dont reach beast mode because of linemates but not the other.

A teams effort is the sum if its players ability to reach beast mode. 3 out of top five need to reach that to be a contender. That is 4 names at least before Nylander.If they did. Maby he would get going to, who knows, has yet to happen.
 
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pcruz said:


I can see a few guys doing this in 15 or 20 years.




Backchecking and stopping the skating movements 20+ feet in front of your net, watching the guy (who you were even with at the other blue line) get a great scoring chance.

That's lazy.

I honestly don't believe some Leafs fans understand that hockey isn't all about scoring goals and making pretty plays.

Playoff hockey is usually won in the trenches with goals reminiscent of pinball.
Stanley Cups are won via black eyes and other injuries.

You get those by putting your body on the line to block that next shot.
Click to expand...

Most of his bad D plays are intentionaly read totaly wrong. His play has not cost us any more games then the top players lack of beast mode. And i dont think Nylander goes golfing and drink buds before a game. Nylander has been nowere near the worst contributor to the team as he seem to be accused for. Fill your team with Acciaris he block like a beast. Nylander is seldom in the position to block shots, and not good at it, as it is a skill, like any other . It is a team of individuals and they are good at different things. The trick is to put them in situation were they shine the most.
 
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pcruz said:
That doesn't illustrate what you think it does.

Matthews plays defensively sound hockey, hits, blocks shots, and takes draws.
And he creates as many chances as Nylander does, who doesn't do any of those other things.


Maybe you're happy with a 1 dimensional player being outperformed in his specialty by another player who does just about everything else at a level near the top of the team or at the top.
Click to expand...

I wonder if maybe that's what an extra $4.7Millon dollars gets you? If Nylander was making $11.6M I'd hope Nylander did all those things as well. There's players on this team making around the same amount who don't do all those things though.
 
sunstersun said:
The way people talk about Nylander, you'd think he makes 11.6, while Marner makes 6.7.
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It really shouldn’t matter what anybody makes at this time of year should it?
Aren’t they now playing because they’re driven to win for themselves, their teammate’s and the fans?
Now is the time to give it your all whether you’re making min, max or anything in between.
 
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